NEWS: Paris Riots Spread To Twenty Suburbs

I work with a guy from France. I picked his brain a bit today. He explained to me that he sees why to Muslims and Africans are angry. Certain commitments were not fulfilled by the French government, due politics, changes in parties coming in and out of power and of course racism.
However nothing justifies 11 days of rioting, arson and sporadic violence. Further the Asian communities seem to fare rather well unlike the Muslim and African. This due to the fact they take a more attitude of compromise with the French culture.
As he explained to me there are issues here which have festered. But, if people take the PC ideology than no real solutions will be the outcome. Serious questions must be asked by both sides and compromises must be made by both sides.


[edit on C:Monocu11e11 by Opus]

[edit on C:Monocu11e11 by Opus]

Originally posted by Opus
Certain commitments were not fulfilled by the French government,

Sorry for clipping most of your reply, it is just this portion that I would like to address.

Opus,
Do you know what commitments were not fulfilled by the French Government? If you do not know what they are, can you find out?

Originally posted by stumason


I think there is a differenc ebetween resistance in Iraq to rioting in France. there haven't been any suicide bombings or assasinations....yet...

They key phrase is yet-imo.
This has spread to two other countries so far....
You are correct-no know sucide bombings-just gang rapes of 13 and 14 year old girls, bombing of buildings, setting cars and bus's on fire.

Originally posted by Hamburglar
First you cry because cops chased them in, then you cry because they didn't stop them from going it. Which is it? Did the cops chase or did they allow? What kind of justice does this man want? Does he want police to shadow him constantly to make sure he stays out of trouble? Surely not!

The COPS said that they did not Chase them at all - but they observed the two youths running into certain death and did nothing to stop them. But I see you do not understand that fully. I don't think this was the ONLY incident between the french cops and the ghetto youth. But it sure is the most famous one now.

Souljah, I find it amusing, though not terribly surprising that you choose to ignore so much. I applaud your effort in searching for the “other side” of the situation—it’s good to read what rioters actually say—but don’t be as naïve as you claim everyone else here to be. The situation is neither black, nor white.

The Situation is never black and white. But the MAJORITY of the people in this thread are belive that it is like that - that these ghetto kids are the ONLY Guilty party in this Crisis. I remember someone (I think Uncle Joe) said, that it Takes Two To Tango, and he could not be more right. People just blame these kids, and they do not want to see why these kids are like this, and WHAT made burn down half of France. Nobody looks for roots of the problems, just critises the final effect, that we see today.

Those rioters may have felt oppressed, and there may have been some “institutional racism.” But, I’d be willing to be it wasn’t nearly as bad as you suggest. I seriously doubt it because I’m an adult, and I have eyes. It’s no different here in the States. Young urbz wan’t mad respeck and big ups from the man, but don’t wanna do anything for it.

How do you know that? Have you ever live in a French Ghetto? Have you ever tried to apply for a Job numerous times, just to be refused, because of your Name and your Skin color? Nobody wants them around, even if they are FRENCH on the paper, when they come to an institution, suddenly they are not French anymore, but MUSLIM, or AFRICANS.

Am I further surprised that many of them will blame it on “THE MAN” or “institutionalized racism”? Also, of course not. It’s a two-way street. You need to deserve respect and earn respect to get respect.

You have to GIVE Respect to GET Respect - and French Goverment did very little or GAVE very little to deserve respect in the eyes of these Youths.

And, ignore if you want, but it can’t be ONLY coincidence that these riots keep happening in Muslim areas across Europe.

What does that tell you?

That Muslims are a Violent Bunch of People that walk around this Planet and Stirr Trouble?

I will tell you again: this is a POVERTY Issue, not a RELIGIOUS one.

Souljah, are you really suggesting these people are so dumb that they only know violence? Is it because they are black, or Muslim? Do you think all blacks and Muslims are dumb? Are you really that racist? Perhaps you want to reconsider the notion that violence is all they know?

I am suggesting, that these people did not have the Opportunity to get out of the Locash Ghettos, where Poverty and Low Employment rates create a high Crime Rate, and Violence and Crime go togather very well.

How can these kids then Escape that road to Crime?

If they want out of the Ghetto they need a Better Job.

They can't get a Better Job, because they are from the Ghetto.

That's why they must work the lousy job for the lousy pay that will not make them move out of the ghetto anytime soon.

Which makes them locked in a small circle, and confined to these Ghettos.

Originally posted by Souljah
The COPS said that they did not Chase them at all - but they observed the two youths running into certain death and did nothing to stop them. But I see you do not understand that fully. I don't think this was the ONLY incident between the french cops and the ghetto youth. But it sure is the most famous one now.

Who cares if the cops did chase them.
Their deaths were still their fault and there was no need to riot over that.

Are you aware that on the same day those boys died a French man was beaten to death by muslims in front of his wife and daughter?

The French didn't riot over that.
Maybe they should have though.

Maybe it's time to put muslims on the defensive in Christian countries, just like Christians and other religions are on the defensive in muslim countries.

It's time somebody put them in their place, just like the muslim countries do with their minorities. I don't see you talking about the hardships of the minorities and the poor in muslim countries souljah, why is that?

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Maybe it's time to put muslims on the defensive in Christian countries, just like Christians and other religions are on the defensive in muslim countries.

It's time somebody put them in their place, just like the muslim countries do with their minorities.

Aaahh. The old two wrongs make a right argument.

Good job AceOfBase.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Who cares if the cops did chase them.
Their deaths were still their fault and there was no need to riot over that.

EXACTLY! Who Carea what happend to them anyway right? They do not matter anymore - just two dumb immigrants dead. They asked for it anyway!

You just can't see it, can you? The Deaths of these two boys were terrible, but they were just one drop too much, in an already FULL Glass. The death of them was just one step too much, and now you see what happened...

Are you aware that on the same day those boys died a French man was beaten to death by muslims in front of his wife and daughter?

Terrible. Simply Terrible. And where did you hear this news? I can't find it anywhere. There is no mention in ANY news about that...

Just wonderng.

Originally posted by Souljah
Terrible. Simply Terrible. And where did you hear this news? I can't find it anywhere. There is no mention in ANY news about that...

Just wonderng.

I heard about in the left-wing news site, the Guardian.

observer.guardian.co.uk

Last week, on the day Bouna and Ziad were killed, Jean-Claude Irvoas, 51, got out of his car in Epinay-sur-Seine to take a photograph. As his wife and daughter sat in the car, Irvoas was attacked by three men, said to be Arabs from a nearby housing estate, and savagely beaten. He died in hospital later that evening.

Ace of Base maybe i need to show you this before you understand:
An Arab and a muslim are not the same thing. period !

and that is the generalisation you and a lot of (mis- or uninformed) people make.

Most arabs are muslim, but not all muslims are arab.

And this is a very important difference !

It would be the same as me saying, All catholic priests are pedophiles... (which i don't think is true, some priests are pedohiles, but that doesn't mean they all are)

think about it, it's just a word, but it makes a lot of difference.

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Opus
Certain commitments were not fulfilled by the French government,

Sorry for clipping most of your reply, it is just this portion that I would like to address.

Opus,
Do you know what commitments were not fulfilled by the French Government? If you do not know what they are, can you find out?

Hmm good you called me on this. I'll try to speak with this individual today. However perhaps there are some French members on these boards who would be more thorough and knowledgeable than my as self on this subject.

Originally posted by Opus
Hmm good you called me on this. I'll try to speak with this individual today. However perhaps there are some French members on these boards who would be more thorough and knowledgeable than my as self on this subject.

It would be much appreciated. I am just curious since I have never heard of a government making a commitment to immigrants other then what protections are aforded here like the rights then gain under our consititution.

Originally posted by XyZeR
Ace of Base maybe i need to show you this before you understand:
An Arab and a muslim are not the same thing. period !

and that is the generalisation you and a lot of (mis- or uninformed) people make.

Most arabs are muslim, but not all muslims are arab.

As you said, most Arabs are muslim so the odds are greatly in favor of these persons being muslims. The press does not like to mention the fact that they are muslim. They tend to mention the race of minorities when they are the victim not when they are the perpertrator. I've read through a few translated articles from the French media and they didn't even mention the race or religion because they are too damned PC.

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Who cares if the cops did chase them.
Their deaths were still their fault and there was no need to riot over that.

EXACTLY! Who Carea what happend to them anyway right? They do not matter anymore - just two dumb immigrants dead. They asked for it anyway!

You just can't see it, can you? The Deaths of these two boys were terrible, but they were just one drop too much, in an already FULL Glass. The death of them was just one step too much, and now you see what happened...

Are you aware that on the same day those boys died a French man was beaten to death by muslims in front of his wife and daughter?

Terrible. Simply Terrible. And where did you hear this news? I can't find it anywhere. There is no mention in ANY news about that...

Just wonderng.

The PC news has barried the beaten death of the man . Look harded , let your fingures do the Googling.

Tragic yes, but sometime Sh*t happens , kids have a tendency of being stupid because they do not know better. Those of us who are fortunate to make it through our youth learn the consequences of cause and effect. I highly do not think the cops coraled these kids so they would be electrocuted.

Time for work ! cheers all !

[edit on C:Tueocu11e11 by Opus]

[edit on C:Tueocu11e11 by Opus]

As you said, most Arabs are muslim so the odds are greatly in favor of these persons being muslims

you just refuse to see the points i'm making...

you know what,....I'll just start generalising like you do and see how it helps.

"All americans are Warmongering- torturing- rasists and uneducated "people"." (this is just an example, i do not feel that way at all just so you know)

Does such a statement piss you off? If it does i proves my point...

i rest my case, i've tried to make you see that your view of Islam and muslims is FUBAR, but instead of answering some of my valid questions on how you know 100% sure these are "muslim riots", you keep resorting to posting very hatefull and ignorant and plainly rascist statements.

I'm sure you have never seen or spoken to a real muslim from close up.. Carefull though, you might learn something....


I work with these kinds of kids her in Antwerp, i think i have a pretty good view over the situation and the poeple in it, where does you expertise on this subject come from ? FOX ? Pure Hate ?...

Originally posted by Souljah
Have you ever tried to apply for a Job numerous times,
just to be refused, because of your Name and your Skin color?

Yes, but I was turned away and treated badly because of my
northern accent and my religion (Catholic). (this was in Alabama).
However ... I didn't go out and burn down the town, the Baptist
Church, the schools, and I didn't take crippled people and light them
on fire. I LEFT ALABAMA and moved North where people don't give
a hoot what you sound like or what your religion is.

Those people could also leave if it's so bad. They can go back
to Morrocco or whereever and try burning down the towns there
when they don't get what they want.

If they don't like that option then they should INTEGRATE into
French society and stop running amuk. They only hurt their
own 'cause' when they behave this way.

Wow. 6,000 cars have been set on fire so far during this rioting.

Expatica

In the 12 days of rioting, more than 6,000 cars have been torched, some 1,550 people have been taken into custody and held for at least 24 hours and nearly 300 cities and towns have been touched by the unrest, police said.

In eastern France, bands of youths hurled Molotov cocktails at cars, buses, schools, a church and a library, while in Strasbourg a German television crew was attacked, and two Italian journalists suffered the same fate in Clichy near Paris.

I hope the people who actually set these cars on fire get more than just 24 hours in jail.

[edit on 8-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

France declares state of emergency.

November 09, 2005

THE French Government ovenight declared a state of emergency in riot-hit parts of the country in order to combat the worst outbreak of urban unrest since the May 1968 student revolt.<

Meeting in crisis session under the chairmanship of President Jacques Chirac, the Cabinet invoked a 50 year-old law originally drawn up at the start of the Algerian war which permits the declaration of curfews, house searches and a ban on public meetings.

Article

Sanc'.

Ace .. what they'll probably get is PAID for their 'work'.
Chirac will tell them that he'll institute some new give away
program so that they will quiet down for a few months.

I highly doubt that he'll stick the entire rioting population -
tens of thousands of young muslim men - into the French
jail system.

I suppose an alternative is deportation. But I'm sure they'd
just sneak back in. Afterall - you can't do that kind of rioting
stuff in Morocco .. they don't put up with it down there. If
you want to destroy and kill like these people do, then you
have to be in FRANCE to be able to run amuk.

sanctum - interesting article. Did you notice that they
called the criminals 'youngsters'??

A state of emergency, eh? It only took 2 weeks!

The Riots are not even over and France is Fast Tracking suspects through their court system raising concerns by Human Rights Groups that they will only fuel the riots if you will.



What gets me here is the fact they are only charging them with vandalism or carrying homemade gasoline bombs.

IMHO they should face charges that are equal to the offence. Too me fire bombing a car, hospital, warehouse etc deserve penalties of arson at the least. What is wrong with this picture?

From what I have seen the sentences have been rather light considering the offense so this fast tracking them thru the courts is like sending a green light to the youths or more or less saying do what you want we are only going to charge you with minor offenses.






[edit on 11/8/2005 by shots]