NEWS: Paris Riots Spread To Twenty Suburbs

Originally posted by Muaddib

You try to give them an excuse for this violence because you agree with violence to achieve your goals like some other people around here, but it is not right.

You have voted Muaddib for the Way Above Top Secret award.

I'd give you all my 3 WATS for this, if I could.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by Riwka]

Just on CNN (watching it now). Riots spread to 20 cities and into another country! Germany.

I don't know who might have gotten FIRST TITOR but if it has not been invoked yet I'll claim it.

This could explain why his "Western Stability Collapses" statement was so vague- how would you describe it?? Especially being a child under 10 when the event occurs.

Wahhahahaha - I must be going insane to start talking about any of this myself (I always thought it was a nice sci-fi story- never believed it) but time after time more lines up he should not have been able to "predict"- it defies logic, yet here it is. Sign me up for a straight jacket and a rubber room.

Now 300 cities! Even as I am typing!!

The only excuse here is using the death of 2 boys to fulfill someone elses agenda. Who's that may be, I am not positive, but I would think Muslim extremist.

Just as a white supremist and a everyday person can both go to church on Sunday and both believe in God ,it does not mean they see eye to eye on many other things. Every Muslim is not a terrorist, as each Christian is not a hate monger. Such is Radical Islam, where as the fatwa released is calling for the calming of the rioting, the rioters are ignoring it and pushing this to the limit with the death of the elderly, the rape of children and the destruction of other peoples hard earned livlihood. It is not the fault of all the citizens of France that these degenerates cannot escape the projects and better themselves.

This is now spreading to other countries, and is quickly growing out of control. Military action is needed to restore order before anyone else is killed. This si a situation that is also very, very ripe for terror activity which could cause further panic and chaos.

Yeah the French military needs to get their asses out of the maginot line and come to the troubled areas in a show of force. These rioter may be brave when they are attacking 50 year old women on crutches but lets see how brave they are against... well this doesn't have the punch it would when talking about anywhere else but... against French soldiers. If that sounded humorous it was not intentional, there is nothing humorous about the situation. The longer they wait the worse it will get...

The observer has an interesting story on the riots and includes a mention of a man who was beaten to death by Arabs in front of his wife and daughter on the same day that the two boys electrocuted themselves while running from the police.

That's a bigger reason for the native French to riot than lame excuse the immigrants had and yet they did not act out.

observer.guardian.co.uk

Yet in a country where 28,000 cars have been burnt on housing estates this year alone, Sarkozy's gamble for the intolerant right-wing vote could still pay off. In today's Le Monde, the Interior Minister is unrepentant in a personal opinion piece titled 'Our strategy is the right one'.

Last week, on the day Bouna and Ziad were killed, Jean-Claude Irvoas, 51, got out of his car in Epinay-sur-Seine to take a photograph. As his wife and daughter sat in the car, Irvoas was attacked by three men, said to be Arabs from a nearby housing estate, and savagely beaten. He died in hospital later that evening.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by AceOfBase

observer.guardian.co.uk

Last week, on the day Bouna and Ziad were killed, Jean-Claude Irvoas, 51, got out of his car in Epinay-sur-Seine to take a photograph. As his wife and daughter sat in the car, Irvoas was attacked by three men, said to be Arabs from a nearby housing estate, and savagely beaten. He died in hospital later that evening.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

For those using a 2nd party firewall like 'Computer associates you will have to turn it off in order to view Ace's article but it does have some very interesting reading. Make sure you turn your FW back on after viewing

Thanks Ace; if true that would bring the death toll to two and not one. I hate to say this but I think this could get far more deadly and trust me I hope I am wrong. All I want is an end to the violence and action from the stupid french government who has todate refused to do what is needed and lastly I want those that can be exported deported, when not possible throw them in jail and lock them up for 20 years.

Has anyone other then me wondered why the parents of these thugs have not kept them home? Most of them are minors and I know here they too could be held responsible for the actions of their children that are underage. I am not to sure about France but assme it might be the same.



[edit on 11/7/2005 by shots]

This will only end when the French Goverment brings in the Legion... They are the only troops that can be counted to fire against rioters with no questions asked...

En Avant Legion!

Originally posted by shots

Thanks Ace; if true that would bring the death toll to two and not one.

I'm not sure if that attack was a result of the riots.
It may have even occured before the other two boys were killed.

It's probably just another incident of violence in France involving muslim immigrants.

I pointed it out to show that this brutal death didn't spark a riot amongst the native French population, unlike the death of the two muslims who died because of their own stupidity.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

Riots are because poor people aren't treated fairly -- WRONG
Riots are because muslims are radical and crazy fanatics -- WRONG
Riots are because of unemployment and poor living conditions -- CLOSER

I have been to France, and to Paris. France is having these riots now because this is HOW THINGS GET DONE in France. When I was there a McDonalds was vandalized BY THE EMPLOYEES who were "on strike" because they didn't feel they got "enough" vacation!! It is a mindset that everything is OWED to the citizens. That entitlement mentality has consistently been met with more/higher wages, shorter workweeks (it's 36 hours in France) and yet more handouts. These riots are just an extension of the social extortion that is acceptable practice in France. BTW, if you are American and thinking of vacationing in Paris, save yourself the trouble. Just smear dog-feces all over your sidewalk, and pay your neighbor to pour you a 5 euro glass of sparkling water. You might want to also have the neighbor kids hold a little protest. It will be cheaper and a nicer vacation, trust me.

Originally posted by AceOfBase

I'm not sure if that attack was a result of the riots.
It may have even occured before the other two boys were killed.

It's probably just another incident of violence in France involving muslim immigrants.

I pointed it out to show that this brutal death didn't spark a riot amongst the native French population, unlike the death of the two muslims who died because of their own stupidity.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by AceOfBase]

Ok gotcha more or less what you are saying it was OK when they did it on their own, but it is not OK when police allegedly do it to two boys. :shk:

I do believe the police have been more or less exonerated by the third boy who said the police were not chasing them as some claimed.

Originally posted by Souljah
The police did nothing to stop those kids running 1,000 metres to their deaths at an electricity sub-station. If they want peace, we need justice. Respect must be mutual.
- Bilal, 29, civil servant -

First you cry because cops chased them in, then you cry because they didn't stop them from going it. Which is it? Did the cops chase or did they allow? What kind of justice does this man want? Does he want police to shadow him constantly to make sure he stays out of trouble? Surely not!

But, if they don’t, then are the police guilty of doing nothing to stop him from doing something dumb? Should we riot because the cops allowed someone to blow dry their hair in a bathtub? Has stupidity been criminalized now? If so, I’d like those two dead kids arrested, along with Bilal, 29, civil servant.

Originally posted by Souljah
It's not good to burn cars but that's one way of getting attention, so people can come and solve our problems.
- Mehmet Altun, 15 –

As opposed to trying to solve your own problems… See, this is why Mehmet will never be taken seriously. Please, come solve Mehmet’s problems, so we can stop burning cars.

Originally posted by Souljah
"But I do see racism every day. People's faces change as soon as they see a black or Arab face. The death of those boys was the straw that broke the camel's back."
- Ziwyana Cherif –

Maybe they’re afraid you’ll burn out their cars…

Souljah, I find it amusing, though not terribly surprising that you choose to ignore so much. I applaud your effort in searching for the “other side” of the situation—it’s good to read what rioters actually say—but don’t be as naïve as you claim everyone else here to be. The situation is neither black, nor white.

Those rioters may have felt oppressed, and there may have been some “institutional racism.” But, I’d be willing to be it wasn’t nearly as bad as you suggest. I seriously doubt it because I’m an adult, and I have eyes. It’s no different here in the States. Young urbz wan’t mad respeck and big ups from the man, but don’t wanna do anything for it.

They think it is okay to speak piss-poor English (or French, or whatever) and expect to be treated like the Sun King. They expect to get away with having piss-poor manners and social skills. I guess nobody ever pulled them aside and said, “Yo, you can’t mack the females at your job, dog.” And, “you can’t dis the customers and expect to keep your job,money.”

If you attempt to get yours by mimicking a lifestyle that can only be lived by an upper echelon of hip-hop stars, athletes, and actors, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Do I find it surprising that these kids—w/their chips firmly planted on their shoulders, their appallingly unrealistic expectations in their pockets (right around their knees), and their grasp of the language coming “straight outta Locash”—are having a hard time being taken seriously and finding work? Of course not.

Am I further surprised that many of them will blame it on “THE MAN” or “institutionalized racism”? Also, of course not. It’s a two-way street. You need to deserve respect and earn respect to get respect.

And, ignore if you want, but it can’t be ONLY coincidence that these riots keep happening in Muslim areas across Europe.

It’s also interesting that the government has been attempting to open dialogues with the people, but the people don’t respond. Is it truly, then, a matter of these rioters wanting to give voice to their problems? It obviously can’t be the case, else they would have taken the opportunity to have dialogues directly with government.

Finally, I noticed that you condemn the thought of violence against the rioters, but refuse to condemn the rioters for their violence, saying the following:

Originally posted by Souljah Because VIOLENCE is all these Kids know.

That is not an acceptable excuse for hypocrisy, and you know it. Furthermore, to suggest that these people know only violence is to demean them in a way that I would have thought you would deplore.

Souljah, are you really suggesting these people are so dumb that they only know violence? Is it because they are black, or Muslim? Do you think all blacks and Muslims are dumb? Are you really that racist? Perhaps you want to reconsider the notion that violence is all they know?

Or, I suppose you can stand behind your statement, which is as racist as you claim the French to be.

Originally posted by northwolf
This will only end when the French Goverment brings in the Legion... They are the only troops that can be counted to fire against rioters with no questions asked...

En Avant Legion!

yes, that might be an answer

the other available resource is to augment the FrenchForeignLegion with NATO troops to restore civil law and such.

I feel that the French will ask for NATO assistance before they would
ask in the UN 'peacekeepers'...
The French are top eschelon Partners in the NATO organization.....
but are merely members in the UN non?

Alsso, the NATO involvement would fit in quite well with the NWO conspiracy theorists.
as the USA & coalition forces are bigger top dogs on the NATO porch & the neo-cons (some of the elite) control the administration that is 'directing' the Fed. which 'instructs' NATO actions...

watch & see if the Supreme Command Headquarters in Brussels gets the 'protection' of NATO forces, when & if the revolting youths attack that area. !

Latest in off the wires, violence has again started when thugs ordered a bus to be emptied and set it on fire approximately 15 minutes ago. Looks like this could be a long night.



And at least one mayor is using common sense by imposing a curfew



[edit on 11/7/2005 by shots]

This has been going on for a long time now, with only a lot of hollow words and hand-wringing from the French government.

Has it occurred to anyone else that if allowed to continue unchecked, this kind of criminality can end up gaining even greater momentum, more widespread acceptance and support, and a stronger base, from which to create a lasting civil strife, instead of a short riot?

Certainly the government has to realize this, and yet they are allowed to continue rioting. The lack of police or military repression of these riots is very strange. It's as if someone wants the riots to continue.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by Hamburglar]

Where is the response from any other country? This is more than a 2 night race riot, this is a movement of distruction evolving and growing, seeming to engulf the criminal element as it spreads now into other countries. WHy has NATO or any other Europeon country not stepped in to offer help by now? It has been 12 days!!!!!

France is reacting as quickly to this as the mayor of New Orleans. Must be a french thing.....

Originally posted by Hamburglar


Has it occurred to anyone else that if allowed to continue unchecked, this kind of criminality can end up gaining even greater momentum, more widespread acceptance and support, and a stronger base, from which to create a lasting civil strife, instead of a short riot?

More then one or two of us have expressed the very same concerns and I believe DJ said he fears this may spread thru out Europe if not contained. I posted an update earlier this morning where there already have been attacks (suspected to be Copycats) in Brussels and another in Germany. So he could very well be right on track and only time will tell.

[edit on 11/7/2005 by shots]

Originally posted by Odium

Originally posted by stumason
What cannot be denied, is that recently in several European countries now, there have been lots of riots and extensive damage over relatively minor things that have been caused by those of a muslim descent, rather than focusing on them soley as Muslims, then denying it is Muslims because they dont do that...

And as I was pointing out, there are lots of riots which have nothing to do with those of Muslim decent in the United Kingdom.

As for the number of 95% where in the U.K. do you live?

Nice to see you took my quote and put it completely out of context there Odium. Here is my entire post to put it into context.

I think we're getting hung up on the word "religion" here. What the problem is in France, Birmingham, Denmark or elsewhere is a Race or Cultureissue, which is entirely different to what religion they practice.

What cannot be denied, is that recently in several European countries now, there have been lots of riots and extensive damage over relatively minor things that have been caused by those of a muslim descent, rather than focusing on them soley as Muslims, then denying it is Muslims because they dont do that...

Well, obviously someone is doing it and its not the indigenous Ethnic French population!

It is the immigrant populations all over that seem to think it ok to burn and loot like animals over what should be matters for the courts, not mob rule. This is Europe, not darkest sub-saharan Africa or Tribal desert dwellers in the ME.

They should learn that this behaviour is completely unnacceptable, learn the correct way dealing with issues and count themselves lucky we took them in and they're not in their home countries, otherwise they'd all be dead right now.

As you can see, I make the distinction by first calling for the "Muslim" issue to be seperated from the race issue, hence why I emphasised the words Muslim Descent, descent meaning race, not religion.

As I then went on to say in my other posts is that this is not soley confined to Muslims, but rather the immigrant population, hence they could be Christian Africans, or bloody Zoastrarians for petes sake.

Its their failure to intergrate and expecting us to bend over for them that has caused this. When they find that we expect them to adapt to our culture, they get all shirty and accuse us of being racist. In France, everyone is regarded as French above anything else, therefore it is the least racist environment you could imagine, it is the immigrants refusal to accept that and their dogged determination to cling on to their own cultures which leads to the segregation.

It's similar to what happens here in the inner city areas, you can trace it back to the schools. The kids in a crappy school never want to be anything other than a "gansta" or a footballer and have unrealistic expectations of having everything provided for them or being able to achieve the lofty goal of playing for Arsenal or Man Utd.

Their piss-poor behaviour in the schools leads them to leave with no qualifications, where they find they cannot get a job and subsequently end up enemployed. They then turn round and blame the "white man" for being racist, when really, it's because they wasted the same opportunites everyone gets and are now paying the price.

They don't see that not everyone can become a "superstar" or whatever and most of us are destined to an average life with an average job, but you still need those GCSE's! Without which, of course their going to be unemployed, as their are plenty of people out their with their GCSE's who can do the job.

(EDIT: This is what Prince Charles meant earlier in the year when he said society placed to much expectation on the youngsters. Look at what happens..they all expect to be miilionaires or rappers or footballers, but they dont realise you can only do that through hard work, not by having it handed to you on a plate!)

God forbid they get off their lazy "gangsta" asses, go to a night class or something (or college, seeing as they get dole money) and get qualified. they might find they will get a job then...Not exactly rocket science is it? Its what I did.... Oh, I forgot...thats not "cool" and you won't get "da respek" if you go back to school, will you?

Oh, and Odium, I live in Reading, as I made clear. If your now going to check the census figures for my area and see the makeup of my area, you will not find the area as 95% immigrant. What I said was the school population of the primary school which my daughter would have to go too is 95% muslim. For the record, that is Oxford Road Primary. If you know Reading, you will know the Oxford Road and sympathise....Its a hole.....

Just to reitterate, as I can see Odium now taking up a personal vendetta against me (not sure why, usually we're on the same page), I am not anti-immigration...

What I am against is letting in every goddam, illiterate fool and his 20 family members in to the country who then subsequently do not contribute and just take, take, take.

Why can we not have a system like every other Civilised country and let in those we need? God knows we need doctors, engineers, teachers and the like, but we don't need guys from Pakistan or Botswana who's skill sets include weaving and making footballs.


Flyersfan, thanks for the WATS, although is it quite unnerving being part of a group that includes centurion and co, as usually I am fighting you guys tooth and nail....how times chang!!....

[edit on 7/11/05 by stumason]

It seems that France is not the only country having issues.

"Cars were set ablaze outside Brussels' main train station and in a working class district of Berlin, although officials in Belgium and Germany on Monday sought to play down the risk of the kind of violence that France has experienced since Oct. 27.."

How long is Europe going to let this get out of hand? They need to step in and do something. Also on a side note-maybe the Eurpoean powers will have more sympathy for the US in Iraq as we are going through basicly the samething there.

Link to the story:

news.yahoo.com...

Don't be surprised if it starts happening in Australia too ...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


smh back to topic ...
Why is everyone else so concerned if their own government isn't ?
I mean why SHOULD another country come to "help" if they don't want to help themselves, I am more than sure that they could end this or at least contain it ... I think there just may be an underlying reason that has yet to see the light of day.

How long is Europe going to let this get out of hand? They need to step in and do something. Also on a side note-maybe the Eurpoean powers will have more sympathy for the US in Iraq as we are going through basicly the samething there.

I think there is a differenc ebetween resistance in Iraq to rioting in France. there haven't been any suicide bombings or assasinations....yet...