It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Experts Say America Is Losing War on Terror

page: 1
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 06:58 AM
link   
WASHINGTON, Nov 1 (Reuters) - U.S. terrorism experts Daniel Benjamin and Steven Simon have reached a stark conclusion about the war on terrorism: the United States is losing.



Despite an early victory over the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan, the two former Clinton administration officials say President George W. Bush's policies have created a new haven for terrorism in Iraq that escalates the potential for Islamic violence against Europe and the United States.

America's badly damaged image in the Muslim world could take more than a generation to set right. And Bush's mounting political woes at home have undermined the chance for any bold U.S. initiatives to address the grim social realities that feed Islamic radicalism, they say.

"We have had some very important successes getting individual terrorists. But I think the broader story is really quite awful. We have done a lot to fuel the fires, and we have done a lot to encourage people to hate us," he added in an interview.

"We may be attacked by terrorists who receive their training in Iraq, or attacked by terrorists who were inspired, organized and trained by people who were in Iraq," said Simon, a Rand Corp. analyst who teaches at Georgetown University.

"(Bush) has given them an excellent American target in Iraq but in the process has energized the jihad and given militants the kind of urban warfare experience that will raise the future threat to the United States exponentially."

For Benjamin and Simon, the war on terrorism has cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars and failed to counter a deadly global movement responsible for attacks in London, Madrid, Bali, Indonesia, and Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.

Source:
Reuters

Former Counter-Terrorism Director of National Security Council, uses these words to describe Bush's war on terrorism:

"It's been fairly disastrous!"

And in my Opinion, he is Right.

Since 9-11 the Worlwide Terrorism has Spread and Increased.

Bush's Foreign policy is doing nothing, but creating generations of angry Muslims, and in the World of 1.2 Billion people, 3 out of 4 hold Negative views towards the United States.

Like mister Daniel Benjamin said in the Article:

"Everyone says there's a war of ideas out there, and I agree. The sad fact is that we're on the wrong side."




posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 07:38 AM
link   
I don't know about losing the war, but the will for it has dropped.

What needs to be done is Iraqinization, they need to be responcible for themselves. Other nations can't just be expected to pick up other countries humpty dumpties, and put them back tohgether agian. But the sad truth is that is an expected thing, dependance on others is not strength. They want us out, yet they can't even keep the country in any form of order.

If the US pulled out, it would turn right back into the same third world country it was before US media got there. You want the USA out of IRAQ, show the people there who are trying to make a difference, that they have every ones fullest support, instead of critising them. You are not there, you dont know first hand about squat, try walking inthe shoes of those who have to live with the extreamists, the Shiites, and Sunnis, the people who enforce cutting off of hands for stealing. Go see what it is like with out sitting in front of a TV or radio, let alone a computer.
Until that much has been done, no one should say anythig about another until they have walked in that others shoes, even if for one step.

Don't like how the military does things, go to college and get a degree, then join the Armed Forces as an officer and make the changes from within.

Talk is cheap and, action has always been louder than words.

Why is the war being lost, I say it is because the media says so. If the news reported how we were kicking ass and taking names, and never mentioned the bad stuff, no one would know better. It would be "sanitised".

Your propaganda, my propaganda, the news propaganda, it is all propaganda. What about other conflicts going on, what about the war in Afghanistan, are we losing there too, no one would know if the media didn't tell you. No one even knew where Basra was until it was on TV.

Go ahead and focus on the negative, contribute and bask in the seperation that divides people. One may want unity and peace, they may want good things for others, but if they contribute to the polarization by continueing to drive the wedge bewteen those they are trying to reach, what good does it do.

Like begets like, the problem in the middle east did not start when we stepped foot on their soil. It has been going on for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, it is a biblical war. This is not going to end when US leaves, to believe other wise is foolish and unrealistic.
Those people need to know some one will stand by them, they have no leadership, no formal form of government other than Saddam.

How much better would they be, if they were left hanging on alone...

I don't believe terror has spread since 9/11, but it has become a major focus of the news. I remember inthe eighties terror was mentioned as a problem. But it was not given any concearn until it happened here on US soil, then all of a sudden it was a issue. Not that the rest of the world wasn't dealing with it already, it was. It just wasn't profitable until recently.



Three strange things in the world: loving war more than peace, loving excess more than sufficiency, and loving falsehood more than truth



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 07:40 AM
link   
Hey! I'm an expert!


Seriously, I don't know why they haven't been saying this for a couple of years now. If someone like myself, who has no knowledge of war and very little knowledge of middle eastern culture and government/politics, has known for a while now that this is a major disaster, I don't understand why more people in the big seats have been so encouraged and supportive of it...

Next week, I'm expecting an announcement by high government officials:

Despite early reports to the contrary, following numerous studies and research, we have come to the conclusion and are ready to announce... the sky is blue!



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:05 AM
link   
The war in Iraq has already been won. It was won on October 15th 2005 by the Iraqi's with the help of the coalition. Get your facts straight.

The insurgency was made up of, and led, by Sunni's backed by foreign powers like Iran and Syria. The Sunni leaders decided to stop attacking pro Iraqi forces and back the new constitution. They saw the light. Once the Sunni's decided that democracy was best for Iraq, the war was effectively over and won by the new Iraqi government and the Iraqi people.

All that remains opposing the victorious Iraqi government is random, willy nilly groups made up of or backed by foreign elements (Iran and Syria)

And these will be eliminated soon as they really are irrelevant and ineffective using random terror to cause instability. The war is over and the only enemy that remains is scattered and dwindling.

I am sorry for you guys, I really am. I understood your desire for the Iraqis to fail and live forever in terror and fear under Saddam. But you can’t win them all huh? Its ok, I am certain you will find more doom and gloom elsewhere to support and maybe if you’re lucky it will turn out to be the travesty you are looking for.

But for the rest of us, Iraq is victorious and hopefully will prosper under its new democracy. With the help of the coalition they can keep the evil forces of Iran and Syria out long enough to become independent and self sufficient.

VIVA IRAQ!! (and your welcome)



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:24 AM
link   
Losing? Not quite.

But the public opinion in other countries (not only muslim countries) has come to an all time low since President G.W. Bush was ellected.

Since the invasion of Iraq, many were furious since there was little to back up the invasion, no WMD's have been found and no major terrorist have been caught there like UBL or Zarqawi, so people are a little upset, now likely targets are Iran and Syria.

I feel there is major pressure on the US by the Israeli government, on of their few allies in this region, the Israeli's are paranoid about Iran and Syria, fear mongering them into believing that Iran's WMD's could hit Rome and such.

Did the US Government give any relieve to Pakistan? and how did they respond to that?



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:33 AM
link   

Originally posted by skippytjc
The war in Iraq has already been won. It was won on October 15th 2005 by the Iraqi's with the help of the coalition. Get your facts straight.


VIVA IRAQ!! (and your welcome)


Not that I have a biased interest one way or the other on the original posters comments, but he said the WAR ON TERROR, not the WAR IN IRAQ...perhaps you should read somewhat more carefully, and YOURE welcome.


Now, as far as my thoughts (AND OPINION) with respect to the GWOT...I think we could and should ALL agree that the contents of the original article present some serious and truth ringing realities. You need not have walked a mile in ANYONE else's shoes to turn back the clock and look at the facts.
Encased in those facts are a somewhat, albeit not entirely, similar set of circumstances with Russia and Afghanistan. When the U.S. aided the Afghany freedom fighters (funny how we didnt tack a terrorist or insurgent name to them) and inevitably ended up training and supporting people like ohhhh Osama Bin Laden? We were his and his causes best friend at the time until (like a rabid dog) he just didnt like us anymore. Uh oh...he becomes that most wanted man on the face of the earth.
We potentially have many handful's now of OBL's, who have yet to come to fruition. In my opinion, I think this is a stark realization only lacking it to be realized. Once there is a moment when we tick off the rabid dog tendencies of our new "friends" then we have a problem. Only this time, more people as well funded as OBL may be in a position to do something about it.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:35 AM
link   

Originally posted by skippytjc
It was won on October 15th 2005 by the Iraqi's with the help of the coalition.


Keep telling yourself that, people might actually start to believe it.
If only words would make it so... BUT THEY DON'T.

I actually thought it was won on May 1. 2003!



The war is in its last throes, I'm sure. We're just spreading democracy right now, see. The war's over. Oh by the way, October was one of the most deadly months for American troops of the entire 'war'. Source



Originally posted by skippytjc
The war is over and the only enemy that remains is scattered and dwindling.


Actually, I wouldn't count on that...
"Saddam's Soldiers Invited Back"



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by alphabetaone
Not that I have a biased interest one way or the other on the original posters comments, but he said the WAR ON TERROR, not the WAR IN IRAQ...perhaps you should read somewhat more carefully, and YOURE welcome.




Um...NO. The war on terror is PRMARILY being fought in Iraq. Terrorists from around the world are flocking to Iraq to fight the Americans. You think people are fighting in Iraq for Iraq? HAH. Iraq (and Afghanistan ) is the only combat zone where terrorism is actively being fought openly.

The VICTORY in Iraq is a major loss for the terrorists in the war on terror. Its has shown them they cannot confront the west in open combat and win.

So...perhaps you should open your eyes and see the whole picture, and YOURE welcome.


[edit on 3-11-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:44 AM
link   
i still havent seen a billion Muslims joining Al Qaeda's ideology. looks like Al Qaida dont trust every Muslim of course. i wonder why. we be seeing terrorist attacks thousand fold and every day around the world but it didnt happened.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:52 AM
link   
Perhaps we should examine the definition of "Losing"

Saddam is on trial

Iraq has had two elections

Iraq has a new Constitution

Terror attacks are less than a tupical crime rate for a similar size country.

We stopped the Oil for Food money pit funding terrorizim worldwide.

If that's losing..........then Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot are alive and well.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by alphabetaone
Not that I have a biased interest one way or the other on the original posters comments, but he said the WAR ON TERROR, not the WAR IN IRAQ...perhaps you should read somewhat more carefully, and YOURE welcome.




Um...NO. The war on terror is PRMARILY being fought in Iraq. Terrorists from around the world are flocking to Iraq to fight the Americans. You think people are fighting in Iraq for Iraq? HAH. Iraq (and Afghanistan ) is the only combat zone where terrorism is actively being fought openly.

The VICTORY in Iraq is a major loss for the terrorists in the war on terror. Its has shown them they cannot confront the west in open combat and win.

So...perhaps you should open your eyes and see the whole picture, and YOURE welcome.


[edit on 3-11-2005 by skippytjc]


I would hope that i'm not wasting my keystrokes by actually replying to this, however, I do find it extremely dangerous thinking on your part that you believe that the War in Iraq = the War on Terror. Even the current administration (which i have absolutely no love for at all) would argue you on that. The War in Iraq per Goerge W's last recount, was to liberate the IRaqi people from a hostile regime, although originally purported to eliminate the WMD that never materialized; yet having nothing at all to do with the War on Terror. The fact that TERRORISTS (not freedom fighters) may or may NOT be flocking to Iraq as a focal point simply because the area is already in turmoil and this makes it more simplistic to carry out acts of terror upon a nation in turmoil, does NOT mean that the PRIMARY reason for our troops being there are to fight the "War on Terror". The war on terror is not fought on a singular battlefield, or in any one particular region, its global and more a mindset with a series of logical deterrences, NOT by tooth and nail combat as in a traditional war. Im hoping you can see there is a definitive difference.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 09:32 AM
link   

Originally posted by thermopolis
Perhaps we should examine the definition of "Losing"


Yes, let's. I think winning the WOT would equal terrorism decreasing. Conversely losing the WOT would equal terrorism increasing.

So, where's the data that terrorism in decreasing?

Worldwide terrorism-related deaths on the rise



…an NBC News analysis of Islamic terrorism since Sept. 11, 2001, shows that attacks are on the rise worldwide — dramatically.



State Department decides not to publish statistics



Last year, the department reported a decline in significant incidents of terror and then had to issue a corrected version showing an increase.
The falloff had been used by senior Bush administration officials to bolster President Bush's claim of success in countering terrorism.


World terror risk 'on the rise'



Iraq is by far the most dangerous country to do business - but global terrorism is also making the rest of the world riskier, a new survey says. Danger has risen in 31 nations, many of them in western Europe, insurance broker Aon says in a new risk map.

Since last year, Iraq has shot from fifth to first place in the rankings, with 2,922 terror incidents recorded in the 12 months to February 2005.


STATE DEPARTMENT'S DATA SHOWS WAR ON TERROR
IS A GLOBAL FAILURE, AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL CHARGES




"It doesn't take a PhD in statistics or even a calculator to determine that terrorism is increasing; all it really takes is a TV remote control to watch the news," said Schulz. "Today the Bush Administration's State Department provided data that show the US-led war on terror is an abject failure. With both numbers of terrorism incidents and harm to civilians increasing, the report should be a wakeup call to re-examine the negative effects of the war on terror."


US report shows increase in terror activities



Terrorist activities increased threefold in 2004 compared with terror attacks and deaths during the previous year, the US National Counter Terrorism Center (NCTC) said in a report released on Wednesday.


Your words about elections and the Constitution in Iraq are nice, but they do not address the reality of the global condition of terrorism. They are just words. Reality is very different than they imply.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 09:43 AM
link   
Benevolent Heretic...it dont matter if terrorist attacks increased or decrease, wat matters is the outcome. u can have an enemy winning battles and may still lose the war. so u have terrorists goin to bomb ships or buses or buildings, dat dont mean they are winning the war. all the terrorists have to do is bomb somthing to show they are still alive and well. but dat dont mean they are winning.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 09:55 AM
link   
The War on Terror is like the War on Drugs. It's a war waged by man against an ideology. Terror is neither winning nor losing. It just is. We (those waging the war) are losing on both counts. Terrorism and drug use are higher than ever.

There is a larger problem. Something you cannot beat down with force. There are systemic issues that are being ignored. We will never wipe out terrorism or drug use until we go deeper and examine the reasons for each.

This isn't 'us' against 'them'. That mentality got us where we are today. Terrorism is a real problem, but what we're doing is making it worse and will continue to do so until either WE are destroyed by the ideal of terrorism or until a different tack is taken.

A big stick just isn't working.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 09:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by deltaboy
Benevolent Heretic...it dont matter if terrorist attacks increased or decrease, wat matters is the outcome.


Exactly.... the outcome of increased attacks is more destruction and terror.


Originally posted by deltaboy
u can have an enemy winning battles and may still lose the war. so u have terrorists goin to bomb ships or buses or buildings, dat dont mean they are winning the war.

No it doesnt, because they are not fighting the war, only those opposed to terror are fighting the war..they , as misaligned thinking as it may be, believe they are fighting either occupation, hostile rule, infringement of rights, the list goes on with respect to their intent but it is misaligned severly by inflicting the same penalties via terror, that they would claim to be fighting against... so they may very well NEVER be winning when they arent fighting a war, but just because they are not winning doesnt mean we are NOT losing.


Originally posted by deltaboy
all the terrorists have to do is bomb somthing to show they are still alive and well. but dat dont mean they are winning.


Again, if thats ALL they have to do, to "show they are alive and well" this increases the amount of terror attacks just by numbers alone, not decreases it. The War on Terror is all about decreasing those occurences and their ability to actually "show they are alive and well".



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 10:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by alphabetaone
No it doesnt, because they are not fighting the war, only those opposed to terror are fighting the war..they , as misaligned thinking as it may be, believe they are fighting either occupation, hostile rule, infringement of rights, the list goes on with respect to their intent but it is misaligned severly by inflicting the same penalties via terror, that they would claim to be fighting against... so they may very well NEVER be winning when they arent fighting a war, but just because they are not winning doesnt mean we are NOT losing.


o its not a war then eh? then Holy War in their view or Jihad meant somthing else right? so wats Al Qaeda and those link to the organization doing? targeting people that has no relations to America. targeting other religions or people who do not share their view.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 10:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by ADVISOR
What needs to be done is Iraqinization, they need to be responcible for themselves. Other nations can't just be expected to pick up other countries humpty dumpties, and put them back tohgether agian. But the sad truth is that is an expected thing, dependance on others is not strength. They want us out, yet they can't even keep the country in any form of order.

Was it really about Liberating these People - because I fail to see that.

The Problem arises, when the real reasons behind this war come out - and they had nothing to do with WMD's, Al-Qaeda or Nuclear weapons.

OK - I agree, Saddam was a DICKtator. But when he served the interests of the US in the Middle East, he was a-Okey. In the time, when he killed thousands of Kurds with Chemical weapons, nobody said a thingy. Decisions were made for his removal, long before 9-11. Meaning, it's dirty invasion - so don't expect a beautiful resistance.



If the US pulled out, it would turn right back into the same third world country it was before US media got there. You want the USA out of IRAQ, show the people there who are trying to make a difference, that they have every ones fullest support, instead of critising them. You are not there, you dont know first hand about squat, try walking inthe shoes of those who have to live with the extreamists, the Shiites, and Sunnis, the people who enforce cutting off of hands for stealing. Go see what it is like with out sitting in front of a TV or radio, let alone a computer.

What about the people who are torturing and abusing some "terrorism suspects" just because they were at the wrong place, at the wrong time, with the wrong religious belifs? Now, as I said, Saddam was no Nice Guy - but still, what exactly has Changed for the Better since he was removed? People still die on daily basis, people are still tortured and abused right in the location, when he used to do the same. Iraq is being sold to the corporations of the west and is privatized by the inch. Nobody cares about the civilan population, that dies every single day.

The US administration knew what they were getting into. They knew, that a single american soldier on Iraqi soil, would bring nothing but resistance. They do not see You as Liberators, but as Invadors. They see US as a new Isreal, in the very Heart of Middle East. They have been living here for a long, long time before US was even founded - so why should they bow down, and jump when US says so?



Until that much has been done, no one should say anythig about another until they have walked in that others shoes, even if for one step.

I have the Right to my Opinion, based on my experiences and my knowledge - just as you have one.



Don't like how the military does things, go to college and get a degree, then join the Armed Forces as an officer and make the changes from within.

I don't think that would do it...



Why is the war being lost, I say it is because the media says so.

Well, do you see this War being Won?

Do you see a downfall in Violence in Iraq?

Or Violence all over the World?

Do you see the Escalation of international terrorism?

Well, thank the Bushies for that...



Your propaganda, my propaganda, the news propaganda, it is all propaganda. What about other conflicts going on, what about the war in Afghanistan, are we losing there too, no one would know if the media didn't tell you. No one even knew where Basra was until it was on TV.

What about the Conflict that NOBODY knows about going on in Africa?

What about them?

Why do these people do not deserve a "Divine Intervention" from the Civililzed West?

Why is the West just messing and stirring trouble in the Middle East?



Go ahead and focus on the negative, contribute and bask in the seperation that divides people. One may want unity and peace, they may want good things for others, but if they contribute to the polarization by continueing to drive the wedge bewteen those they are trying to reach, what good does it do.

Can you show me a Positive side to that - apart from the Fact that it is EXTREMLY positive for all the Corporations involved in this conflict?

How can you have Peace without Justice?

How can you have Unity without Freedom?



Like begets like, the problem in the middle east did not start when we stepped foot on their soil. It has been going on for THOUSANDS OF YEARS, it is a biblical war. This is not going to end when US leaves, to believe other wise is foolish and unrealistic.

What are you talking about? What biblical war? Yes, there were people living here, in the Middle East long, LONG before any of the West-White-People came to America's and "Civilized the Native Population".

Ask yourself, how many new Insurgents have been born Today and will be Tomorrow, because the US is in the Middle East?

Tell me - did Invasion of Vietnam do "Good" for the Country?

Or the Korean War?

Or the Zionist Establishment of Isreal?

Wow - such Civilized Culture, far, FAR from being a Militant Society.



I don't believe terror has spread since 9/11, but it has become a major focus of the news. I remember inthe eighties terror was mentioned as a problem. But it was not given any concearn until it happened here on US soil, then all of a sudden it was a issue. Not that the rest of the world wasn't dealing with it already, it was. It just wasn't profitable until recently.

Well - Yes it has. Check your News, Mate. Conflict in the Middle East does not remove terrorism, it INCREASES it. The World is MORE dangerous Today, then it ever was in the 80's. At that time, terrorism was used by the US Goverment, if you remember what Reagan did to Nicaragua and Afganistan.

Terrorism is a Tool of the Strong.

Why should today be any different?



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 10:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by alphabetaone
No it doesnt, because they are not fighting the war, only those opposed to terror are fighting the war..they , as misaligned thinking as it may be, believe they are fighting either occupation, hostile rule, infringement of rights, the list goes on with respect to their intent but it is misaligned severly by inflicting the same penalties via terror, that they would claim to be fighting against... so they may very well NEVER be winning when they arent fighting a war, but just because they are not winning doesnt mean we are NOT losing.


o its not a war then eh? then Holy War in their view or Jihad meant somthing else right? so wats Al Qaeda and those link to the organization doing? targeting people that has no relations to America. targeting other religions or people who do not share their view.



Delta, i think, inadvertently, you're making my point for me..they're targeting other religiions or people who do not share their view. THAT is not war, war is really to be in an active state of conflict or contention..if you're targeting someone, a country, or an entity that has no conflict with you, then thats not war, its terrorism (or in their misaligned category freedom fight). Jihad according to Muslims and their faith alleges to be more figurative or symbolic. Think of it in more simple terms, lets say your biggest pet peeve would be that your tomatoe plants are constantly being eaten by aphids. You now declare war on all aphids and do whatever you can to erradicate them...they have no conflict with you, nor are they fighting directly with YOU persay, they just want to eat the tomatoe plants and be on their merry way, but you have declared war on them none the less because they dont fall within the structure of how you want your life to play out (in this case, you dont get the tomatoes because they wont allow it due to the destruction of the plants before they can be fruitful).
Although this is a gross irrationalization of the War on Terror, in principle its the same with much more devastating consequences, and, unlike aphids, humans have the ability to reason and adapt and most unfortunately strike back at those that oppose them or attempt to hinder their progress.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 10:59 AM
link   
alphabetaone...wen u see the casualty numbers both in Iraq and Afghanistan, who are we actually fighting? is it war? if u asked the troops who a veterans in those conflicts they will definitely tell u dat it is war. wat do u call it then we are fighting against Al Qaeda and its allies?



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 11:02 AM
link   
The US media has been constantly pounding the idea that Bush is a liar and loosing the war since 2001. What do you expect when you saturate the television with this propaganda? Of course people are going to loose their will.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join