Chavez may give F-16s to Cuba or China!!!

The key problem I think is what should be done by US at this situation.

Originally posted by emile
The key problem I think is what should be done by US at this situation.

Ignore him. Anything that the US may do will be turned into an attack on Venezuala by the world media. Just let him run his course and when he drives their economy into the ground just say too bad we'd like to help you out but we don't want to be accused of meddling in Venezuala's afairs.

Chavez does a lot of talking, and if he replaces some old f-16 so what. What is going to do? He bought MIG-29's already. Probably the f-16 have some issues and they are not entirely operational and I doubt the US is going to help them...

He just does it to anger the Bush administration. He knows the US wont attack him. However if he continues to bother, and mess with Colombia's internal conflict he could be really in trouble. Not a direct attack with B-2's and Tomahawks over Caracas but in the form of Planes for Colombia. New
F-16's or 18's plus more and more helicopters and special forces training's...

I am from Colombia and I am truly afraid of Chavez, all of his actions mirror Hitler's too close to be comfortable (he is using democracy to beat democracy) and we all how it ended in Europe...

This means nothing.
The F-16's that Chavez has are old tech, let China and Cuba have them.

Venezuela originally had 18 F-16A Block 15's and 6 F-16B Block 15's.

Three of these have crashed and no further sales to Venezuela of new attrition aircraft are planned.

It's really no big deal.

As always Intelgurl has just summed up the situation perfectly.All a fuss about nothing..

Originally posted by intelgurl
This means nothing.
The F-16's that Chavez has are old tech, let China and Cuba have them.

Venezuela originally had 18 F-16A Block 15's and 6 F-16B Block 15's.

Three of these have crashed and no further sales to Venezuela of new attrition aircraft are planned.

It's really no big deal.

With all due respect Intergul it is a big deal what Chavez does with weapons. 'Cause maybe we wont give the planes to Russia or China he could give them to the FARC or other terrorist group and sure someone in the US or Europe think that is unimportant, because is not like he is going to attack either. However when you are its neighbour you think different, so don't say that it doesn't matter because although it not affect you directly it can affect others...

"All a fuss about nothing"

Look at it in the context of an ongoing propraganda war against Chavez by some elements in the US. He is convinced that the US were behind the coup; I'm not so sure, but there are people who would like the US to take action against Venezuela and want to raise the temperature.

I never understand why the Americans get so shirty with Venuzuela. The guy won the elction (twice, even after the recall). he has massive popular support and does things to benefit his country/people.

Just because he has ousted the Aristocratic Elite from the country and returned a sense of hope to the people, the US feels justified in villifying him and supporting coup attempts, instigating violence and generally being a git. I am sure it comes as no surpise that the US is concerned about losing influence in Venezuela, seeing as they are one of the major exporters of Oil to the US....always boils down to the black stuff with you guys, doesn't it? Speaking of which....

Just let him run his course and when he drives their economy into the ground just say too bad we'd like to help you out but we don't want to be accused of meddling in Venezuala's afairs.

Exactly how is he going to "run his economy into the ground"?

The high Oil prices are providing the country with massive amounts of revenue,which they are using to lift the people out of poverty and expand their own economy.

Get all the WATS you like, but your obvious prejudice against Chavez/Venezuela is clear for the simple fact that the US has lost control of one of its main suppliers of crude. Granted, they will still sell to you in order to keep going with their reforms, but in return they are getting plenty of your petrodollars to improve their lot.

Simple fact is, he was democratically elected and all over the region, Socialist governemnts are popping up as the pople are fed up at being ruled by the Aristocrats who have screwed them over for centuries. Why can the US not just butt out of peoples affairs and concentrate on your own problems...God only knows you have enough of them to keep you busy for a while.

As was said, this is no big deal as these are older model F-16's. China already received an F-16 from Pakistan years ago and rumor holds it that the Chinese incorporated some of that tech into their newest fighter, the J-10. You be the judge:

It does have a lot of similarities. My apologies for going OT, but thought some posters would be interested in this.

I must admit this idea of a 'terrorist airforce' is a new and interesting one.

I'd love to hear more about how it would work - especially if the Venezuelan F16s are out of the essential spares they need for the Venezuelans need to operate them.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I must admit this idea of a 'terrorist airforce' is a new and interesting one.

I'd love to hear more about how it would work - especially if the Venezuelan F16s are out of the essential spares they need for the Venezuelans need to operate them.

I suppose, given the tendency of "terr'ists" top crash planes, they wouldn't mind too much about not having spares...as long as they got into the air and lasted long enough to reach the target, thats all they need..but then, it would be cheaper and easier to get yourself a whole bunch of cessnas packed with C4....... only postulating, of course...absurd idea....

Originally posted by Midav
China already received an F-16 from Pakistan years ago and rumor holds it that the Chinese incorporated some of that tech into their newest fighter, the J-10.....

.....It does have a lot of similarities. My apologies for going OT, but thought some posters would be interested in this.

- I didn't know about the Pakistani F16 but the biggest rumour (most strongly held to be stone cold fact by many in the field) is that the still-born Israeli 'Lavi' project was the true root of the Chinese J10.



The similarity is not just in outline either, avionics and electronics are said to be heavily based on the technology the Israelis sold to the Chinese.

(and not just in respect of this single aircraft either, radars and other military hardware has been sold).

Originally posted by carcharodon
With all due respect Intergul it is a big deal what Chavez does with weapons. 'Cause maybe we wont give the planes to Russia or China he could give them to the FARC or other terrorist group and sure someone in the US or Europe think that is unimportant, because is not like he is going to attack either. However when you are its neighbour you think different, so don't say that it doesn't matter because although it not affect you directly it can affect others...

I am going by what Chavez said, not the many "what if" scenarios that can be dreamt up concerning the Venezuelan F-16's.
In Chavez's own words:
“If they don’t comply with the contract … we can do whatever we want with these aircraft, whatever the hell we want. Maybe we’ll give 10 planes to Cuba or to China so they can study the technology,” Chavez said.

“We could give them away and buy aircraft from China or from Russia. … We don’t need any U.S. imperialism.”

While giving the aircraft to terrorist organizations is an interesting concept, it is not what Chavez said.
In fact, the main reason Chavez wants to be rid of the aircraft is that the US and it's corporations no longer supports them and have disallowed Israeli Military Industries to support them as many are in an extreme state of disrepair.
Furthermore, how a terrorist group is going to field and maintain a squadron of F-16's with absolutely zero support from US suppliers is at best an imaginative stretch. Plus, those F-16's are not going to be able to land on just any dirt and sand airstrip hidden away in the mountains of Columbia.

besides didnt Venezuela already order a batch of MIGs already dats comin up? i would say dis is more of a Chavez's show to he can stick his middle finger up America's nose wen he knows dat he already has replacements for the F-16s. he dont need no beggin from the U.S. to replace new parts or planes.

Originally posted by deltaboy
besides didnt Venezuela already order a batch of MIGs already dats comin up?

- Those Mig 29's have been a long time coming.

I can't help thinking they must have been waved as Chavez's scary new thing for a good number of years now without, amazingly, ever materialising.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey

Originally posted by deltaboy
besides didnt Venezuela already order a batch of MIGs already dats comin up?

- Those Mig 29's have been a long time coming.

I can't help thinking they must have been waved as Chavez's scary new thing for a good number of years now without, amazingly, ever materialising.

i dont know how long it takes for the order to come up.... maybe about 2 years. all i know is dat it was suppose to sign and the order would come at 18 months. Chavez has pilots in Cuba piloting MIGs for training. so dat means the MIGs are still comin.

Originally posted by intelgurl
Plus, those F-16's are not going to be able to land on just any dirt and sand airstrip hidden away in the mountains of Columbia.

I recognize the point you made about it not being what Chavez said, however the thought occurs to me that IF they were to give them to terrorists, then said terrorists might not worry too much about a landing site

[edit on 8-11-2005 by waynos]

Originally posted by waynos


I recognize the point you made about it not being what Chavez said, however the thought occurs to me that IF they were to give them to terrorists, then said terrorists might not worry too much about a landing site

[edit on 8-11-2005 by waynos]

...and they would launch suicide attacks on South American US Allies from Chavez's airspace? That would equate to state sponsored terrorism or an open act of war - How do you think the US would deal with that in their own "back yard" when the US is looking for a reason to take Chavez out?

I was thinking more in terms of them being smuggled away on cargo ships to be reassembled somewhere else and flown against, well, take your pick; forces overseas, European or allied middle east cities, whatever, all very implausible of course but I think it more likely that terrorists would try to use them for suicide attacks than to try and operate them in the intended fashion.

However implausible that sounds, imagine someone predicting 9/11 to you the day before it actually happened.

Not that I think terrorists will get their hands on them, it was just my response to the notion previously posted.

Originally posted by waynos
However implausible that sounds, imagine someone predicting 9/11 to you the day before it actually happened.

- More than a few did predict airliners being used in the manner of the 9/11 attacks Waynos, sadly that was not so far-fetched.

(taking over an airliner in the air is one thing but I very much doubt any terrorist grouping could supply people capable of taking off and flying a mach2 fighter alone)