Chavez may give F-16s to Cuba or China!!!

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CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said on Tuesday his government may give its U.S.-made F-16 fighter jets to Cuba or China and replace them with Chinese or Russian aircraft after accusing Washington of blocking purchases of U.S. military parts.

Any exchange of military hardware to those countries would break an agreement with the U.S. government on the transfer of technology without Washington's permission and further strain fraying ties between Venezuela and the United States.


need help on link. thank you.
A fierce critic of the Bush administration, Chavez has rattled Washington by strengthening ties with anti-U.S. states like Cuba and promoting his self-described socialist revolution as a counterweight to U.S. regional influence.

"If they don't comply with the contract ... we can do whatever we want with these aircraft, whatever the hell we want. Maybe we'll give 10 planes to Cuba or to China so they can study the technology," Chavez said.

"We could give them away and buy aircraft from China or from Russia. ... We don't need any U.S. imperialism," he said.

he sure is getting America's attention. think its just a bluff or real? wats the significance of the technology transfer to China or Cuba. China probably knows everything on the F-16. however im concern about Cuba with the F-16s. however i dont think Cuba is interested in it for technology because of money problems and these days Cuba and the U.S. has not much tension between each other since then.

need help on link. thank you.
[edit on 1-11-2005 by deltaboy]

[edit on 1-11-2005 by deltaboy]



Mod edit: link

[edit on 1-11-2005 by kinglizard]

``Now they don't want to sell us maintenance parts for the F-16s,'' Chavez said today in a televised speech in Caracas. ``Not only that, when we try to find parts in other countries, the U.S. pressures them not to sell to us.''

Venezuela bought 24 F-16s from the U.S. in 1983 and three have since crashed......

......``Maybe we'll have to buy Russian or Chinese planes to defend ourselves.'' Chavez said. ``We don't need U.S. imperialism to live. Maybe will send Cuba 10 planes. Or maybe give them to China so they can see the technology of the planes.'

www.bloomberg.com...

- So if the US is trying to stop Venezuela's F16s operating safely (by denying them the necessary maintenance parts) what do they expect?

Does anyone imagine the Venezuelans would ever be happy about this or not go elsewhere for their stuff?

As for any scary 'technology transfer' I'd suggest that these 20yr old+ 1983 vintage F16s are hardly anyone's idea of cutting edge or much a tech transfer to cry about; so what?

The US right-wing is reaping what they sowed.
They supported an attempted coup, they to this day generously fund and support a minority opposition in it's attempts to create trouble as and when they can.

....and why?

Because that country has dared to elect someone they consider 'socialist' and who will not blindly pursue the policies the US wants.

What a crime.

I am really beginning to think that Chavez is only a chimera of what he promises. Yes his rhetoric looks genuine, and his plan to counter such abusive things as the WTO, and to transfer some of the the wealth of his country to the otherwise deprived. What he looks like now is another phony NWO shill who is just playing a script to fall into the hands of "the Pentagon's New Map."

It is a shame that people get fooled by fraudulant "socialism," when in fact such things are too commonly the precursor of abasement, and sponsored by the power centers in Europe. If his plan for his people can be sustained, and it is all and more what his rhetoric suggests, fine. Otherwise it looks to me like he is a blip on the screen, and will end up sipping champagne in Switzerland like all the other NWO stooge dictators including the actual Saddam with his plastic surgery makeover.

[edit on 1-11-2005 by SkipShipman]

Haha, never see that one coming.

Bush is probility going to say scew you... but not on carmera.

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
They supported an attempted coup, they to this day generously fund and support a minority opposition in it's attempts to create trouble as and when they can.

....and why?

Because that country has dared to elect someone they consider 'socialist' and who will not blindly pursue the policies the US wants.

no one has yet to prove any cia link what-so-ever, and i guess his military coup attempt on an elected government makes him trust worthy? or his suppression of oil worker protestors? yea, believe him and blame us for his people seeing hes a dictator and that he was elected by fraud and resisting, ignore the suppression and protests and violence that went on after he took power, no it was all the cia, not people trying to throw off a theiving dictator, nevermind any cia link being proven, word of mouth is enough proof......

Chavez's threats, as par, are meaningless.

Hey 'Castro-minime', please do give those F-16s to Cuba or China, m'k?
Btw, how about getting yourself some better intel. agents or advisors, cause HELLO, the Chinese have already looked at the technology of the F-16s, thanks to Pakistan [who has the F-16 BLOCK 20s]! Incidentally, that might most definately explain why the Chinese are now currently producing the J-10, which is allegedly supposed to be the equivalent of the latest version of the F-16s [minus the BLOCK enhancements], and other type aircraft having the same or similiar characteristics and capabilities of the F-16, such as the FC-1/JF-17. The issue here is irrelevant and has been discussed in the Aircraft Forum.

IMHO, Chavez is personally asking for a boot in his arse, but hey, thats just my take. More power to the man seeking such.






seekerof

[edit on 1-11-2005 by Seekerof]

Seekerof hit it right on the spot.

Why are the US even bothered? F-16s are old hat and sounds like Chavez is just trying to stir the US's temper by these idle suggestions.

Originally posted by namehere
no one has yet to prove any cia link what-so-ever

- It's just something that happens to be believed as true almost everywhere except in certain US circles, hmmm?

i guess his military coup attempt on an elected government makes him trust worthy?

- If ever there was a thieving, corrupt and illegitimate regime acting against the interests of the great majority (and only for a priviledged elite of the people) fully deserving of being overthrown the pre-92 coup attempt gov was one.

or his suppression of oil worker protestors?

- "suppression"?!
Wow, there was a period of trouble (and yes it got nasty for a short while) but what are you trying to say, the oil workers in Venezuela are slaves or something?

They were used, for political ends by the opposition. Pure and simple.

How about that blatent political nature of the strike, hmmmm?

Can you see no possibility of others trying to stoke up, inflame, exploit the tensions and subvert democracy there, hmmm?
Yeah right, open your eyes.

Violence is an ever present danger in Venezuela, where society is sharply polarised between supporters and opponents of President Hugo Chavez.

Clashes in the capital Caracas on Friday left two people dead and dozens injured.

A one-month old general strike aimed at ousting Mr Chavez has been accompanied by almost daily street protests in many of the nation's cities.
To make matters worse, many Venezuelans carry guns.

Every time supporters and opponents of Mr Chavez meet on the streets, there is a risk of bloodshed

news.bbc.co.uk...

A group of business leaders, political parties and labor leaders banded together against Chavez and organized the nationwide oil strike to pressure him to resign and call early elections.

www.pbs.org...

It is again very well known that there is a dedicated and well funded (by those on the US right-wing) anti-Chavez opposition attempting to capitalise and stir up as much trouble as possible, given the sad history of that region it is no surprise it has sometimes gotten violent.

yea, believe him

- You'll find many in South America "believe him".
Reap what you sow.

"Freedom and democracy"?
Unless you are a South American, in which case you can expect you and your government to be dictated to by the US and told what 'line' to follow - and don't dare object or deviate or there'll be big trouble.

Maybe instead of treating Sth America like a set of 'client states' or worse, like the old 'shere of influence' BS we used to criticise the old Soviet Union for in her dealings with some of central and eastern Europe for, things might be different.

Maybe the grotesque levels of poverty in the South American continent have a hell of a lot to do with it as US corporations in conjunction with the US gov have tolerated and done very very little to assist with the problems there (some would say are right at the heart of the problem).

blame us for his people seeing hes a dictator and that he was elected by fraud

-
Now that one is very funny.

You'll find the truth is that the political opposition made use of a technical 'recall' proceedure to attempt to subvert Venezuelan democracy and rid the country of Chavez by other means.

They managed to get a new election too.

Under the gaze of the international community (including, famously, ex-US President Jimmy Carter) the election was, correctly, seen as legitimate.

Chavez won with almost 60% of the vote
(with an electoral verification 'trail' that ought to have put the USA to shame.......if the US political system had the slightest shred of shame left in it.)

not people trying to throw off a theiving dictator

- Almost the only 'people' that saw Chavez as a "thief" and tried to "throw" him "off" were the old priviledged elite (and the hangers on that benefitted from them) crying their eyes out that they were going to be forced to share a little of what they had with those who had nothing or next to nothing.

60% of the free and democratic vote.
Some "thieving", some "dictatorship".

.....as for those very old F16's?
Clearly they are just another part of the ongoing US attempts to antagonise......and uninformed Americans are blindly supposd to get all hot bothered and very shirty about 'them' selling - or worse just giving away - 'our' secrets.

It is inconceivable that there are any actual secrets in those old and fairly low spec planes worth much to anyone nowadays.

Venezuela may indeed now go to China or Russia for some new planes if they feel the need (......doesn't it seem unusual and interesting how the old 'they're going to buy at least 50 Mig 29s' shock horror scare story has disappeared in all of this, hmmm?) but given the US's recent behaviour towards them who could really blame them?


[edit on 2-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

I can't imagine that that'd actually be legal, to sell classified US military technology and hardware to cuba. That, in itself, would be a justifiable call to war for the United States, regardless of the rest of the drama between the US and Venezuala.

Originally posted by Nygdan
I can't imagine that that'd actually be legal, to sell classified US military technology and hardware to cuba. That, in itself, would be a justifiable call to war for the United States, regardless of the rest of the drama between the US and Venezuala.

Unfortuantly the US arn't the perfect example of not doing everything by the book and legit...

Foreign Military Sale fighters are sterilized and dumbed down versions of the US fighters, so there is nothing classified on them. The selling of ANYTHING classified even to allies is illegal without SERIOUS congressional oversight, at least it was, it might just be plain illegal now.

Originally posted by Nygdan
would be a justifiable call to war for the United States, regardless of the rest of the drama between the US and Venezuala.

- Oh come off it.

The sale or giving away of a handful of ancient 'customer' F16's would be a "justifiable call for war"!?

To whom?

The same loopy crowd in the US (and their Venezuelan proxies) that are just itching to (re)impose their will on Venezuela (and sieze control of her resouces) no doubt, but no one else, surely?

[edit on 2-11-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Well, what else could he do if the US won't sell him the parts the planes need to fly.

How is this any diffrent then the US giving weapons to Isreal, then Israel selling them to china ?

Interesting...

But China already bought (traded) F-16's from Pakistan.

And Cuba, well, talk about "hard to get parts". Guess they could put them in the parks for the kids to play on or something.

The export F-16 is the F-16C? Not the hot new cool stuff everyone would like to grab and reverse-engineer.

The search-and-target radar is probably the only technology to worry about. And the export models are given an older lesser system.

I have read that China has been exploring the marketplace in South America. I wouldn't be surprised by a sale of Chinese fighter aircraft to Venezula.

It's just another tweak in the war of words. There's been enough of that in the OPEC gatherings, from Venezula.

Originally posted by phixion
Unfortuantly the US arn't the perfect example of not doing everything by the book and legit...

Yes, and the rest of the world would be well within its bounds to declare war on the US for it. Is that something that they want to do tho?

Foreign Military Sale fighters are sterilized and dumbed down versions of the US fighters, so there is nothing classified on them

Ah. Well. There ya go. *whispers* way to ruin a justification for war, nerd j/k

The same loopy crowd in the US (and their Venezuelan proxies) that are just itching to (re)impose their will on Venezuela (and sieze control of her resouces) no doubt, but no one else, surely?

Sure, why not?

I obviously don't know much about the tech and all that. Struck me as wildly wrong that Venezuala would be able to do this, if these planes were important. Apparently they're not, so yeah, definitly doesn't make any sense to be concerned about it.

But if they were to sell top secret classified information about vital weapon systems in the US to countries that the US has under embargo and that are part of the old cold war red camp, hell yeah, war'd be justified. It'd be stupid to permit other countries to sell for profit your own military hardware and thus render it practically useless in war.

How is this any diffrent then the US giving weapons to Isreal, then Israel selling them to china ?

They do? Dang, we'd have to wipe them off the map then too. Anyone, it'd be the same. France, Japan, Britain. That'd be a far too serious offense, pulling out the military from underneath ya. I'd have to say that the brits'd have to do the same (that is if it were possible to do so without bringing about their utter annihiliation) if the US sold Eurofighters to Serbs, and the like.

Chavez is so full of hot air I'm surprised that he can't fly. All this is just political BS. He's giving his people a an enemy (the US) so that he can blame anything bad on the enemy and then take cradit for anything good that happens. The US is not going to go to war with Venezuala and Chavez knows it. He can spout off all he wants because he knows that there is going to be no retaliation. The US will have their chance when Chavez drives their economy into the ground and wants a bailout. Hitler did this back in the 1930's except he used the Jews for his enemy.

I agree with the poster above that Bush will tell him to perform a reverse bowel movement on himself, in diplomatic language of course.

If Chavez wants to unload his old F-16 then so be it. They were export versions for starters and the avionics they do have will more likely set back the PLAAFs attempt to modernize

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I couldn't have said it better myself.

Wupy