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Old Soviet Mysterious Fighter

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posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 05:16 AM
Now, cold war has overed. We have known almost every kinds of Soviet fighter,at least we have known what them going on, except this one
The link above might couldn't be opened, so I have to download here in very small way.

I've only seen its photos in Jane's All Wold's Aircraft 1969-70 once, but never seen it somewher else.
This fighter have ever been called MiG-23 or Su-15VTOL and Faithless or something else, which fuselage include vertical tail much like Flogger that we saw today but air inlet was closer to Mirage fighter made by France.
More interesting thing is that aerofoil looks like refited from Su-15 Flagon or MiG-21 fishbed which I am not sure because I think no-one has seen its clear photo or genuine object.
Lastly, I want to say the Faithlass may not be a Su-15 S-VTOL version, if no-one can prove this.
Will it be a stealth for ever? I am waithing to see.

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 05:35 AM
That would be the MiG-23PD "Faithless", made in 1967, following the apparently unsuccessful MiG-21PD.

It was designed to be a V-STOL fighter, but like the MiG-21PD, it never operated vertically, and stayed above 150km/h (93mph) in flight.

A swing-wing version without the vertical take off capabilities lead to the MiG-23S.

From the book "X-Planes and Prototypes" by Jim Winchester.

[edit on 1/11/05 by Xar Ke Zeth]

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 06:11 AM
Thats not quite right. The swing wing version (Flogger) and the STOL (not V/STOL) version (Faithless) were both developed at the same time, not one from the other, and, depending on flight test results both were in the running to become the 'MiG 23' with the Sov AF.

The MiG 21 STOL aircraft was a development testbed for the Faithless but, as we know, the VG Flogger won out and became the operational MiG 23.

Also, emile, you are confusing two different aircraft. The Faithless was not also known as the Su-15 VTOL. There was however a STOL (not VTOL) version of the Su-15 which was flight tested at around the same time, but they were entirely separate from each other. The STOL Su-15 used a double delta wing that only appeared operationally on the later, conventional, Flagon F.

As I have already mentioned, these were not VTOL aircraft, but purely STOL ones.

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 06:59 AM
So what's the details about the Faithless?
Only one was built or more?
what's kind of engine was equiped?
what's size?
what about weapon was carried?
the first flew, and so on?

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 07:09 AM
According to my book:

Powerplant: One 76.5kN Tumanskii R-27-300 afterburning turbofan, and two 23.0kN Koliesov RD-36-35 lift jets.

My book says it's max speed and altitude are unknown.

It's 7.72m long, and 5.15m high, and 16,000kg when loaded.

The aircraft, the MiG-23-01 would lead me to assume only one was built, but I don't know. When the 23-01 was displayed at the 1967 Moscow air show, it had a fake gun installed, with two types of missiles to fool the West into thinking it was entering service.

It first flew with pilot Pyotr Ostapenko on the 3rd of April, 1967.

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 09:06 PM
What's the name of your book?
Did you know what's a different between first MiG-23 Flogger with prototype of MiG-23 Flogger?
I knew that first MiG-23 Flogger was numberd 23-11, but you said MiG-23-01, Did you mean there are two two development ways out of the Flogger?
As we can seen, except vertical tail, non of part showed in this strang STOL Faithless seem to be MiG-23. Are you sure the Faithless is not a independent type?

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 09:18 PM
That schematic is definetly of the Mig-23. Nato codename "Faithless"

I have included a link for a picture of this plane.

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 09:26 PM
The book is called X-Planes and Prototypes, by Jim Winchester, page 198/199. ISBN: 1-904687-40-7

I'll type out what's on the two pages for you.

According to, only one was built. There is still no information about it's operational ceiling, speed, or range.

Mikyoan-Gurevich MiG-23PD 'Faithless' (1967)

The MiG-23PD follows the largely unsuccesful MiG-21PD of 1966. With only two RD-36-35 lift engines, the MiG-21PD could not achieve a true vertical take-off or landing. It also had the poor handling at low speed. The development of the Tumanskii R-27 engine allowed MiG to develop a new tactical fighter to replace the MiG-21. The Kremlin directed that the first R-27-equipped MiG should also have a bay for two lift engines.

The MiG 23-01 or MiG-23PD first flew with Pyotr Ostapenko on 3 April 1967. Like the MiG-21PD, it could not operate vertically and stayed above 150km/h (93mph) during flight. At the same time Mikoyan was tasked with developing a variable geometry ('swing-wing') version of the same basic design. This was designated the 23-11m or MiG-23S, and went on to become a successful family of interceptors and ground-attack aircraft.

Crew: one
Powerplant: one 76.5kN (17,196lb-thrust) Tumanskii R-27-300 afterburning turbofan and two 23.0kN (5,181lb-thrust) Koliesov RD-36-35 lift jets
Max Speed: unknown
Max Altitude: unknown
Span: 7.72m (25ft 4in)
Length: excluding boom 16.8m (55ft 2in)
Height: 5.15m (16ft 8in)
Weight: loaded 16,000kg (35,273lb)

1. The MiG-23 had only a brief career, as variable geometry wings offered better take-off and landing characteristics than did marrying a delta wing with extra lift engines.

2. The 23-01 was displayed at the 1967 Moscow air show with a dummy gun, two types of missiles and a large tactical number painted on the nose. These measures aimed to convince the Western observers that the MiG-23PD was in or nearing service.

3. The thrust of the lift jets was only about a quarter of the empty weight of the 23-01, ruling out VTOL operations. Use of the jets gave a take-off run of 180-200m (591-656ft) in a lightly loaded condition.

4. Although in profile the MiG-23PD resembled the MiG-23S 'Flogger', the latter's intake system variable ramps was quite different and allowed much higher maximum speeds.

[edit on 1/11/05 by Xar Ke Zeth]

posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 10:20 PM
You are great people I think.
You have done good job here, by your lead I have found an avilable web" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">there, but this web use a language I can't understand, also the pics showed in it is too small, I remember someone here can open it in large.
Do you are able to do this? I am sure that web made by Matej
Where are you? you still haven't answer me what you promis to reply another topic I've raised in this board, although no obligation is on your shoulder

posted on Nov, 2 2005 @ 07:31 AM
I do think that the reference to the -23PD not being able to operate vertically makes it sound like a failed VTOL. It was never meant to operated vertically in the first place. If you look at the two lift engines you can see that they are placed well forward of the CG, bearing in mind the lack of vectoring nozzles on the main engine (like on the Yak-38) it is clear that VTOL was never the aim of this aircraft.

Emile, as regards the difference between the MiG 23 prototype and in service versions, a close look at the prototype will reveal that the wing is of shorter chord and lacks the dog tooth leading edge of the fighter version, the majopr difference on the airframe is that the entire wing is mounted further back on the prototype so that when the wings are fully swept they are much closer to the tailplanes than on the service version.

Also the faithless used the same front fuselage as the Flogger from the air intakes forward and a modified MiG 21 wing as well as the same tail fin as the Flogger.

[edit on 2-11-2005 by waynos]

posted on Nov, 2 2005 @ 07:47 AM
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-23PD
The MiG-23PD was developed in parallel with the MiG-23S. The MiG-23PD used a tailed delta configuration with lift engines in the forward fuselage, the MiG-23S had variable geometry wings. The MiG-23S was preferred, and only one MiG-23PD was built.
Type: MiG-23PD
Function: fighter
Year: 1967 Crew: 1 Engines: 1 * 7800kg Khachaturov R-27-300
2 * 2350kg Koliesov RD-36-35
Wing Span: 7.72m Length: 16.80m Height: 5.15m Wing Area: 40.00m2
Empty Weight: Max.Weight: 18500kg
Speed: Ceiling: Range:
Armament: 1*g23mm

Mikoyan-Gurevich 'Flogger' MiG-23
The MiG-23 is a compact fighter with variable sweep wings, which combines good performance with the ability to operate from small and rough airfields. It was developed in parallel with the MiG-23PD (which to see). The first production series was the MiG-23S, powered by a R-27 engine. The true production model was the MiG-23M, substantially redesigned and powered by an R-29 engine, later replaced by the R-35. The MiG-23 was a capable fighter but lacked a look-down, shoot-down capability. Over 5800 were built. This includes the MiG-23BN ground attack version. A more specialized ground attack version was the MiG-27.
Type: MiG-23S
Function: fighter
Year: 1969 Crew: 1 Engines: 1 * 10000kg Khachaturov R-27M-300
Wing Span: 13.96m / 7.78m Length: 16.70m Height:
Wing Area: 32.10m2 / 29.89m2
Empty Weight: Max.Weight:
Speed: 1280km/h Ceiling: Range: 1800km

Mig-23PD - MiG-23 fuselage with MiG-21 style wings, and separate liftjets mounted vertically in the mid fuselage. Side intakes carry shock cones similar to many Mirage series. with 2 2350kg Koliesov RD-36-35 lift engines.

Your right yet again waynos. A failed VTOL

posted on Nov, 2 2005 @ 10:13 AM
Check out MILAVIA's site for Sukhoi SU-15 variants --- --- including the T-58VD VTOL prototype(s). This variant was a successful testbed for the RD36-35 lift engines and for the VTOL concept in general but was hampered by a short range. The T-58VD recalls Mirage VTOL variants aircraft and represent attempts at supersonic fighter short field operation in the mid 1960's or nearly fifty years before the F-35B is operational.

posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 06:12 AM
Finaly, here is the link with all soviet modified fighters with lift engines.

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