we don't know squat about the end

I think that nobody knows what the end times are really going to be. Christians are getting all worked up over the European union, electronic chips, the NWO, UFO's, and all sorts of other nonsense. prove me wrong somebody

Since your theory is purely speculative, the only proof that will prove you wrong is the end of the world.

Do you want us to research facts for you about signs of the end of the world? None of these would prove you wrong.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
Since your theory is purely speculative, the only proof that will prove you wrong is the end of the world.

Do you want us to research facts for you about signs of the end of the world? None of these would prove you wrong.

Im not talking about signs i am talking about specific people or countries mentioned as being players. especially about this rapture argument.

We're pretty sure the sun will explode in a few billion years. The signs to look for will kill all life on earth anyway, so don't bother. That's the real "end times", and it's going to suck if anyone is still around.

Yeah people should not get excited about it really. I mean just like a curse word is created. What you make bad is...

End of Days = price to pay of spiritual evolution. May not seem like the best system but its what we got right...plus everyone dies no matter what at one point so when more people die good souls unite etc etc fight evil that would not be there unless you created it anyway.

Anyway the deeper you look you will be forced to belive in something even if something is nothing...Would you belive in an alien if you saw one?
Why would you see an alien? What would it take to see god? What would it take to see an alien?

You would be surprised at what you can see or not see with a faith system.
Faith in God is Faith in yourself. If there is a huge alien ship overhead are you gonna pray to an alien or God?

Humans didn't come here from monkies...

Originally posted by scienceguy94
I think that nobody knows what the end times are really going to be. Christians are getting all worked up over the European union, electronic chips, the NWO, UFO's, and all sorts of other nonsense. prove me wrong somebody

[edit on 1-11-2005 by japike]

There is a little problem with rapture...its cheating. They are using the power of gnostics yet the Catholic faith tosses out that gnostics are real.

To be judged is gonna be more than just having a good life, the enddays is when you are faced with good or evil. Do you take the easy road out or the high road. The problem with an end of days scenario a mass of people start to see it. When a mass of people see something others will see it to.
You have to have to care about all people of the world not just disappear cause your Catholic. if you see demons flying around you have to worry about everyone not just youself. You will need to take a stand when you do others will follow a snowball effect of good versus evil.

Originally posted by scienceguy94

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
Since your theory is purely speculative, the only proof that will prove you wrong is the end of the world.

Do you want us to research facts for you about signs of the end of the world? None of these would prove you wrong.

Im not talking about signs i am talking about specific people or countries mentioned as being players. especially about this rapture argument.

The problem with an end of days scenario a mass of people start to see it. When a mass of people see something others will see it to.

This is what I was refering to. I believe beyond a doubt that the rapture as christians imagine it is totally contrived and made up. If people dissapeared even in the midst of a war or ufo invasion like many like to postulate it would still make headlines and then people would think maybe they were right after all and this new world leader might the the antimessiah.
No I think that anybody who says" he is the antichrist" will be laughed at and mocked. Notice that when people say prince william is the man or javier solana or even George bush is the antichrist, nobody is saying your "full of it""get real"
SO it would probably be only one person at first who recognizes who he is. and when he announces it to the world people mock him and yes even evangelicals will. No I do not believe that the great deception is anything that we have thought of right now becuase how good is a deception if people are already keen to it before it happens?

Originally posted by japike
They are using the power of gnostics yet the Catholic faith tosses out that gnostics are real.

What is this power of the gnostics. I've never heard of it...

I don't think that the Catholic church is saying that gnostics aren't real, for they most certainly exist. I think the church is only labelling them as heretical.

Originally posted by scienceguy94
No I think that anybody who says" he is the antichrist" will be laughed at and mocked. Notice that when people say prince william is the man or javier solana or even George bush is the antichrist, nobody is saying your "full of it""get real"

Actually, I do. Really. But no one really pays attention, since what I have to say isn't dramatic, and it doesn't put any certain person (good or evil) on a pedestal or confirm that one group or another is the 'right one.'

SO it would probably be only one person at first who recognizes who he is. and when he announces it to the world people mock him and yes even evangelicals will.

Or maybe just ignored and disregarded at first--after all, everyone's got a theory, so to speak. As far as announcing it to the world--how would that be accomplished? I think it would be more like the 'voice crying out in the wilderness' until just one other person listens and realizes--and, as the old commercial goes, he 'tells two friends' and they 'tell two friends,' and on and on until the power revealed is dissolved with the word of recognition.

No I do not believe that the great deception is anything that we have thought of right now becuase how good is a deception if people are already keen to it before it happens?

That's an excellent point. I think you are on to something...

The deception is making itself known, little by little--I see it every day, and it's only began to emerge in the last few years. For the most part, though, even those that are beginning to understand don't fully comprehend the import of what the whole understanding will reveal. It is something that just doesn't seem remotely possible--and it's been under our noses for a long, long time.

But it's not just one person, and it's nothing at all to do with world powers and political leaders--those kinds of things are focused on because humanity misunderstands a crucial point: what is important and relevant to us is not at all what is important in the bigger picture, that is, God's picture. What harm can we do to ourselves if God doesn't will it? Or what good? What kind of threat is an atomic bomb when God can do the same thing? Why would God choose to work through our petty methods when He has His own ultimate methods far beyond the realm of pettiness and mortal competition?

I think that the truth could not have been imagined by any of us at all--there is no way we can think on that level--any of us.

SO it would probably be only one person at first who recognizes who he is. and when he announces it to the world people mock him and yes even evangelicals will. Or maybe just ignored and disregarded at first--after all, everyone's got a theory, so to speak. As far as announcing it to the world--how would that be accomplished?.

The first man to recognize the antichrist will certainly be elijah the prophet.
I quote malachi 4:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

If you ask me how Elijah will appear to the world. I think that he will probably call CNN or foxnews, or even aljezirah and tell them it won't rain for a day around the whole world. and after that they will interview him and he will say that man is the antimessiah or antichrist. I think annie you are spirituall aware enough to realize that the truth cannot be realized by man except for one that is apointed by God to show truth to the world. You cannot tell me that God will not send something as terrible as the antimessiah unless he brings a real prophet to warn the world.



[edit on 1-11-2005 by scienceguy94]

As a "Christian" I do not "worry" about the end of this world. For me my end come the day I die / they get rid of my body on earth. One thing is for sure, today may be the last day of the rest of my life - and the same for you!

Originally posted by scienceguy94
The first man to recognize the antichrist will certainly be elijah the prophet.
I quote malachi 4:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

You are taking Bible prophecy literally, when it was not written as such. It was written as astronomical allegory.

The two witnesses of Revelation are 2 of the 7 lampstands (the non-fixed celestial objects visible to the naked eye). These are the sun, moon, venus, mercury, mars, saturn, and jupiter.

The two witnesses are two of these that are both morning stars that go before the sun/son; venus and mercury.

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by scienceguy94
The first man to recognize the antichrist will certainly be elijah the prophet.
I quote malachi 4:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

You are taking Bible prophecy literally, when it was not written as such. It was written as astronomical allegory.

The two witnesses of Revelation are 2 of the 7 lampstands (the non-fixed celestial objects visible to the naked eye). These are the sun, moon, venus, mercury, mars, saturn, and jupiter.

The two witnesses are two of these that are both morning stars that go before the sun/son; venus and mercury.

would you mind showing us the source of your argument. it sounds interesting.

Originally posted by scienceguy94
I think that nobody knows what the end times are really going to be. Christians are getting all worked up over the European union, electronic chips, the NWO, UFO's, and all sorts of other nonsense. prove me wrong somebody

I've been referred to as "nobody" numerous times, and yes I do know what the end of times are really going to be:

Since the "end times" will surely encompass a lot, the one thing I'm sure of is that right after the end of times, there will be an immeasurable amount of time due to the fact all time has ended, making it perceivably impossible to measure time, as it no longer will exist.

Hence, you have been proved wrong.

I think that nobody knows what the end times are really going to be. ......
prove me wrong somebody

Time will no longer exist.

You are welcome.

Originally posted by scienceguy94
would you mind showing us the source of your argument. it sounds interesting.

This is going to overwhelm you if you've never looked into the real roots of Christianity, but you did ask...

Astrotheology and the origin of the Jesus myth

Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by scienceguy94
The first man to recognize the antichrist will certainly be elijah the prophet.
I quote malachi 4:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

You are taking Bible prophecy literally, when it was not written as such. It was written as astronomical allegory.

The two witnesses of Revelation are 2 of the 7 lampstands (the non-fixed celestial objects visible to the naked eye). These are the sun, moon, venus, mercury, mars, saturn, and jupiter.

The two witnesses are two of these that are both morning stars that go before the sun/son; venus and mercury.

So is Elijah the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, or Jupiter?

You are taking Bible prophecy literally, when it was not written as such. It was written as astronomical allegory.

How do you know what the intentions of the authors were? (I'm under the impression you have nothing but contempt for FAITH, therefor there is not 1 author in your view)

I think you may be all missing the point about the Antichrist. When he does arrive, the majority of the world will be absolutely convinced he is the Christ...not the anti-Christ. He will purport to be the second coming and will back up his claims with actions. Many will be decieved.

"He replied: 'Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.'" Luke 21:8-9

Originally posted by BostonBill99
I think you may be all missing the point about the Antichrist. When he does arrive, the majority of the world will be absolutely convinced he is the Christ...not the anti-Christ. He will purport to be the second coming and will back up his claims with actions. Many will be decieved.

"He replied: 'Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.'" Luke 21:8-9

But who is going to warn us about the nature of the antichrist character. Do you think that God is going to leave it up to mere mortal and finite men to decide who is the bad guy? DO you think Human interpretation will save people?
What about cultures who don't have a messiah figure in thier religion how are they going to be decieved?

Originally posted by scienceguy94

What about cultures who don't have a messiah figure in thier religion how are they going to be decieved?

Well, hurry up and convert them all so we can expedite this thing.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
So is Elijah the Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, or Jupiter?

Venus. Venus arrives like a lamp in the dead of night (early morning) heralding the rising of the sun near the winter solstice ascending brightly in its "chariot of fire".

Mercury is the second lampstand, which also rises as a morning star from time to time.

Elijah and Enoch are the two prophets that never died (set in astronomical allegory). When Venus and Mercury rise as morning stars, they become invisible as the sun rises, and so are not seen to set (die). Elijah is the greater of the two, so Venus is Elijah and Mercury is Enoch.

We also know Enoch is Mercury from the ancient Greek author bar-Hebraeus, leaving Venus to represent Elijah. Some such writings escaped the Roman church's attempt to torch all evidence of its gnostic origins.

Jupiter is the antichrist.

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
How do you know what the intentions of the authors were?

I have made a judgement based on combining the Bible with other ancient writings and searching for the position that best fits the evidence.

Now I expect you to answer your own question.