The USS Liberty - What really happen on 8 June, 1967

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posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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This topic always puzzled me. After the Israeli attacks killed 34 US seamen and wounded 171 out of a crew of 297, the worst loss of American naval personnel from hostile action since World War II. In these modern day terms that would have be the pretext for a WW4. So what really happened on 8 June, 1967 ? was the US spying on Israel? or did Israel just ruthlessly kill innocent US seaman ?.




Israeli gunboats circled the wounded 'Liberty,' firing at crewmen trying to fight the fires. At 1515, the crew were ordered to abandon ship. The Israeli warships closed and poured machine gun fire into the crowded life rafts, sinking two. As American sailors were being massacred in cold blood, a rescue mission by US Sixth Fleet carrier aircraft was mysteriously aborted on orders from the White House.


This is from a US site

www.lewrockwell.com...

What really happened ?




posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 09:46 PM
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It will forever be hard to say with any definitive conclusion, why the USS Liberty was attacked. In war, attacks on the wrong troops can occur, and do occur with frightening regularity. Whether the attack on the USS Liberty was deliberate, or accidental, is unknown to more than just myself.

The pre-emptive strike by the Israeli air force on the Egyptian airfields, is exactly what happened. An attack from Egypt or Syria did not proceed. Any document that says it did, is not factual. What did occur prior to the start of the 6-Day War was a pact of aggression between Syria and Egypt (and in part, Jordan), a mobilization of Arab troops, an Egyptian advance into the Sinai Desert, an ordering out of UN troops by the Egyptians, and a blockade of the Gulf of Aqaba, cutting Israeli off from the sea.

The blockade alone, was sufficent by international law, to initiate hostilities. A blockade is considered an Act of War.

If I hazarded a guess, it would be that the Israelis were telling the truth, when they said it was an accident of war. Simple solutions tend to be true.



The Israelis claimed it was an accident: that they mistook Liberty for an Egyptian vessel connected with what they believed to be Egyptian shelling of Israeli positions at al-Arish going on at the time (the explosions ashore later turned out to be an ammunition dump blowing up).
www.nmhschool.org...


Exactly the type of situation during wartime, where errors are made in judgement, and the wrong troops are attacked.

The information that an US Intel aircraft was overhead, and had transcripts of pilot's radio transmissions, is news to me. I'd like to see the transcripts. It's probable that the USS Liberty herself, had recordings of the attack.

The relations between the United States and Israeli were so good at the time, that the US had actually informed the Israelis that the potential war would be won in 5 to 10 days. As a result, the US did nothing when the war started, believing that it would end soon.

Ref: CIA Analysis of the 1967 Arab-Israeli War



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 10:19 PM
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More information...

A search for an intel aircraft involved at the scene, turns up only links to the article by Eric S. Margolis. It makes it look like an attempt to sell the book.

A little deeper searching turned up this:



A U.S. spy plane was sent to the area as soon as the NSA learned of the attack on the Liberty and recorded the conversations of two Israeli Air Force helicopter pilots, which took place between 2:30 and 3:37 p.m. on June 8. The orders radioed to the pilots by their supervisor at the Hatzor base instructing them to search for Egyptian survivors from the "Egyptian warship" that had just been bombed were also recorded by the NSA. "Pay attention. The ship is now identified as Egyptian," the pilots were informed. Nine minutes later, Hatzor told the pilots the ship was believed to be an Egyptian cargo ship. At 3:07, the pilots were first told the ship might not be Egyptian and were instructed to search for survivors and inform the base immediately the nationality of the first person they rescued. It was not until 3:12 that one of the pilots reported that he saw an American flag flying over the ship at which point he was instructed to verify if it was indeed a U.S. vessel.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...


The NSA transcripts and recordings can be found here:
www.nsa.gov...

In reading some of the on-line articles found, I'm reminded that the USS Liberty was not supposed to be that close to shore. The Israelis had declared "attack on any ship found offshore", and the US had said it would stay away. Right at the time of the attack, a US Fleet order to stay 100 miles away was given, to avoid Arab/Egyptian accusations that the US Navy had participated in attacks with the Israeli air force .

A rather good story and analysis of the USS Liberty is found here:
torpedos.8m.com...
torpedos.8m.com...

Edited to add link...
Edited to add NSA link...

[edit on 31-10-2005 by ZPE StarPilot]

[edit on 31-10-2005 by ZPE StarPilot]



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 10:35 PM
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Here are a few qoutes i found intresting




"I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. . . . Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous "
-- US Secretary of State Dean Rusk





"...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty."
-- CIA Director Richard Helms






"I can tell you for an absolute certainty (from intercepted communications) that the Israelis knew they were attacking an American ship."
-- NSA Deputy Director Oliver Kirby





"It appears to me that it was not a pure case of mistaken identity."
-- Captain William L. McGonagle, Commanding Officer, USS Liberty, speaking at Arlington National Cemetery, June 8, 1997


There is just a few the rest can be found at

www.ussliberty.org...

So its fair to say the Isreali's knew very well there where attcking a US ship ?



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 11:46 PM
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It is my opinion that the Israelis intended for there to be no survivors, and then blame the attack on the Egyptians to foster support from the US in Israel’s aggression against Egypt.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by helium3



"...the board of inquiry (concluded) that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing in attacking the Liberty."
-- CIA Director Richard Helms


I'm too lazy/busy to go to the link at the moment and read for myself. I only pose this question:

Whose board of inquiry?



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 06:03 AM
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Almost definately the US BOI. I doubt the Israelis cared enough to actually have an investigation. I find it rather interesting that they can claim mistaken identity, when they had warships close enough to machine gun the survivors. You can't tell me that they couldn't see or identify the US flags flying onboard the ship.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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killed another thread ehh Zaph?



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Having an understanding (I hope) of the way governments work, I would not be entirely surprised to find out that the Liberty was a pawn in play that was given up by the US government in some ploy that may not have come off as planned. Remnds me of the title of an old John Wayne movie, "They were Expendable".

I suspect we will never know what actually happened.

Much like during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I know a fellow who was a load master in the Air Force. He claimed that there were a very large number of planes that were loaded with various denominations of American Money, all overstamped with "CUBA". I suspect the invasion possibility was very close, but never came off... And you never seem to, or at least I never, heard anymore about that money. Although it would be fun to have some in my collection.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
I find it rather interesting that they can claim mistaken identity, when they had warships close enough to machine gun the survivors.


This is a good point, i have heard this story from many of the survivors. That the Israeli's shot at the life boats and the US seaman that entered them.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 09:03 PM
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I lost 9 close friends in that deliberate attack by the Israeli's. The only point that has never been clearly established is why they did it.



posted on Nov, 2 2005 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by helium3

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I find it rather interesting that they can claim mistaken identity, when they had warships close enough to machine gun the survivors.


This is a good point, i have heard this story from many of the survivors. That the Israeli's shot at the life boats and the US seaman that entered them.


Which is a war crime...



posted on Nov, 2 2005 @ 03:40 AM
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HA! Like THAT will stop the Israelis from doing what THEY think is right. Screw the rest of the world, Israel comes first, and whatever THEY think is right is right as far as they're concerned. At least that seems to be their attitude when it comes to things like this.



posted on Nov, 2 2005 @ 03:47 AM
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Indeed. Much like the current US Prez and his administration...I guess the difference is that most Israeli governments, whether right or left wing, tend to agree with most of the decisions the previous governments have made.

The next two US Presidents will be living in the shadow of what the shrub has done. Just as Ford and Carter were leading a US wounded by Watergate and fatigued by the VN war....

Still, these are the reasons why we are slowly setting up a permanent ICC, instead of a series of ad hoc tribunals specific to a single conflict...



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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the captain (or some othe high ranking officer) was awarded the congressional medal of honor after the incident - in a dockyard, behind the scenes, not before congress as would be expected...

source: 'Body of Secrets'



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by helium3

Originally posted by Zaphod58
I find it rather interesting that they can claim mistaken identity, when they had warships close enough to machine gun the survivors.


This is a good point, i have heard this story from many of the survivors. That the Israeli's shot at the life boats and the US seaman that entered them.


Years ago I read an account of one of the survivors.......he whole heartedly believed that the Israeli's knew the ship was an American vessel. He recounted how the Liberty was well marked, with a large US flag flying in full view!

Why did they do it?? Craig's is the best answer I've seen yet:



It is my opinion that the Israelis intended for there to be no survivors, and then blame the attack on the Egyptians to foster support from the US in Israel’s aggression against Egypt.


[edit on 5-11-2005 by frayed1]



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 02:00 AM
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Why did Israel try to sink a naval vessel of its benefactor and ally? Most likely because 'Liberty's' intercepts flatly contradicted Israel's claim, made at the war's beginning on 5 June, that Egypt had attacked Israel, and that Israel's massive air assault on three Arab nations was in retaliation. In fact, Israel began the war by a devastating, Pearl-Harbor style surprise attack that caught the Arabs in bed and destroyed their entire air forces.



'The USS Liberty': America's Most Shameful Secret

Found this while doing a bit of backchecking after a mention of USS LIBERTY in the recent middle east trouble threads.

Seems

a, that the crew had captured electronic evidence through captured transmissions that the 6 day war was not caused by an attack on israel and therefore had to be disposed of COMPLETELY.This would have required clearence and cover up by president johnson


The air attacks lasted 20 minutes, concentrating on the ship's electronic antennas and dishes. The 'Liberty' was left afire, listing sharply. .


b,that it was again to be disposed of on DIRECT ORDER of president johnson and blamed on Egypt as a false flag op to attack egypt.

Unfortunately for them.even with a sustained attack by jets ,torpedoes and close quarter gunboat strafing of their lifeboat rafts...

During which the isaeli attackers failed to notice the three large american flags or the markings in english??????


They failed to dispose of the ship and crew.causing a dilema.Therefore the ''accident'' was reported hours later.. They mistook it for an egyption ship.!!!


U.S. rescue attempts: At least two rescue attempts were launched from U.S. aircraft carriers nearby but were recalled, according to David Lewis, officer of the deck


why the aborted rescues?

Again suspicious evidence that maybe they were not supposed to be rescued





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