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Qitaal fi Sabeel Allaah

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posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 01:26 AM
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This post is in reference to moderator, Nygdan's questions in the Introductions section. I thought it wise to move the subject to this forum.

I will attempt to answer all the questions put forth to me by Nygdan (in the other section, Introductions) with the best knowledge I know. Again, I am no scholar or Imaam, but I will try to speak on the various subjects put to me, so we may try to form better opinions or beliefs on the particular issues which will follow.

As to the first question regarding akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden being a CIA agent. Essentially, he worked for the CIA by providing the much needed funds to the Mujaahideen (Muslim involved in jihaad, or better, qitaal fi Sabeel Allaah (which I will go into deeper at the last part of this post) which means, to fight for Allaah's cause). I do not know if anyone is aware of it, that in 1986, akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden helped build the Khost tunnel complex, something the CIA used as a major arms storage depot, training facility and medical center for the Mujaahideen. So yes, my akhi worked with the CIA during the Russian (Tajikistan) and Afghanistan war.

But after the al kuwayt invasion by Saddam Hussein, akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden petitioned King Fahd bin Abdul Aziz to let him organize his own troops to fight Saddam, but he was turned down. This was in 1990. When the US troops entered Saudi Arabia, my akhi petitioned religious scholars (ulema) to issue fatwas against those entering. But to no avail.

As to your question, akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden broke away from the USA/CIA at this time, for he felt it was not right for US troops to set foot on Saudi Arabia soil. And so in 1993, your first WTC problem. And many others like it.

You must try to understand, it is against strict Salafi teaching for non-Muslims to be based in our country. It is haraam (unlawful). Just like we do not allow any zionist Jews into our country, just like we do not permit Christians to wear crosses in public, we do not allow the building of Christian churches, because under Shar'iah law, it is haraam.

For your next question, there is much choice in Islaam. There is such a thing as ikhtilaaf (difference of opinion). If we have any questions or doubts, we go to our Imaam.

Let me go outside of your question, and elaborate on something first, to give a little perspective, if I may. Islaam means to totally submit to the will of Allaah. We are slaves of Allaah. All the time, we say, laa ilaaha ill-Allaah (there is none truly worthy of worship except Allaah). So I would like to ask you, if I may (or anyone who reads this): wouldn't you agree, that when you give your complete will to your God/Allaah, that no matter what your God/Allaah's will is, it will be done? In Islaam, throughout our lives, we live and breathe Allaah's will via the qur'aan. Muhammad (PBUH) received from Allaah all that we must follow so we may never go to jahannam (I hope I do not have to explain this, in order to keep within the Terms of Agreement). What I am saying is, whatever the qur'aan states, we must follow. And we follow willingly. akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is simply following what the qur'aan states. I hope you do understand.

And so, as to your question, a fatwa is not evil because it is a legal ruling based on Shari'ah law (Islaamic law) which is solely based on the qur'aan. An Imaam, a religious scholar who studied the qur'aan and sunnah (Hadeeth) know how to apply each and every ayat (verse) in order to fulfill Allaah's will in whatever situation that may arise. And we as Muslims/Muslimahs abide by such legal rulings (fatwa) because (we too) are submitted to the will of Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta'aala)

As to your next question. In order to apply this link, after clicking on the link, when at the web site, click on Osama bin Laden in the left hand margin, after the page changes, click on 2/11/02, and then read the article. Thanks. www.copvvia.com...

I found that link years ago (I hope it works). It shows that the intelligence agencies were well aware that something was about to happen, but permitted it to occur because it had its own agenda. In other words, the intelligence agencies (of whichever given country) are head to head, so to speak, with Wahabbis (Salafi-Sunni) who are dead set against the powers that be which want to rule all of the middle east. Yes, we are at war.

The powers that be, the UN/globalization/new world order are warring against the middle east, the last refuge which still holds onto traditional values (Allaah, Family, State). We have very old values that clash with modern day ways of life. The powers that be want to revolutionize the middle east as they did with Asia, USA, Europe, Africa, and parts of south America. Westerners think it is controlling to only watch certain television shows, listen to only music which reveres Allaah, to cover ourselves when in public, to not permit a woman to drive a car, to not permit women to hold certain types of occupations, to not socialize in mixed social circles, or whatever have you. To us, we feel secure; to you, you feel controlled.

Saddam Hussein was ousted from his government because he decided to defy the UN or the powers that be. I agree with him on that point. Back when he invaded al kuwayt, I too did not care for this. Saddam was always raising a heavy hand to his fellow brothers and sisters. akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden was always against Saddam Hussein. He thought Saddam was a tyrant.

Also, Iran is surrounded by Iraq and Afghanistan, so when the US government can gather enough support via a media propaganda campaign, it will force Iran into a war. Iran is located right where the maritime paths for crude oil transport are at the Persian Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz. Oil, again, like with Iraq and Afghanistan (Caspian Sea), is what fuels much of the trouble in our region. We have the oil, and the westerners want it. Plus, after any war that is carried out, the western powers attempt to modernize our societies, even though we are unlikely to follow suit.

The only difference between a Sunni and a Shi'ite is, a Sunni (I am a Sunni) follows the qur'aan and sunnah (Hadeeths/guidelines of Islaamic life based on Muhammad's (PBUH) own life), whereas, the Shi'ite believe in the qur'aan only.

As Muslims/Muslimahs, we submit completely to the will of Allaah. If an Imaam issues a fatwa, we follow it. Islaamic life is very simple.

As to your next question, we believe that Christians worship a man/Jesus/'Eesa (PBUH). We see 'Eesa (PBUH) only as a prophet or a messenger of Allaah. We do not worship him. Whereas, the Christians believe he is part of a trinity (God, Christ, Holy Spirit) which equal God. Whereas, as Muslims/Muslimahs, we worship only Allaah (God). Christians aren't submitting themselves completely to God/Allaah. As Muslims/Muslimahs we worship The One (ahad) or Allaah. We do not worship a man ('Eesa (PBUH) turned up to his Father/God/Allaah when he was on the cross, this shows alone, that he is separate from God/Allaah.

In Saudi Arabia, under Shari'ah law, we can use the internet for certain purposes. The Council of Ministers, which regulates the entire web in Saudi Arabia place censors on certain links, anything to do with haraam, that is, alcohol, sex, drugs, certain book sites, all Christian and zionist Jewish sites, even Yahoo chat, the link will not work, certain Paltalk chatrooms are banned, links for Christian, Judaism and certain social issue rooms will not work, the entire music section links will not work. There are only a few internet providers, like Arabian Electronic Network and Batelco Juraisy Limited, but these internet providers must adhere by all the Council of Ministers decrees.

For your next question, basically put, the CIA is using akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden to bring in the new world order, whereas my akhi is simply doing the will of Allaah.

As for your next question, as far as I know, Sufi (tasawwuf) is like the mystic inner life of a Muslim's life. I never followed tasawwuf, and I believe not many Muslims/Muslimahs do. As for Shi'ite, as explained above, a Shi'ite only believes in the qur'aan, whereas, a Sunni believes in the qur'aan and sunnah.

For your next question, the proper way to spell Saudi Arabia in fus7a (classic Arabic) is al mamlakah al Arabiyah as Suudiyah (but in school, we simply wrote, es-soAdayya).


As for your next question, akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden studied with Mullah Omar (who issued previous fatwas). I hope this link works, I found it on the internet:


www.ict.org.il...

I hope this link helps you with your question on akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden's 1998 fatwa.

If you would like any passages in the qur'aan which supports akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden's jurisdiction in issuing a fatwa, please let me know, and I will show you any ayat to the best of my knowledge.

As for your next question, it will take me much time to type about the zionist Jew situation. So I will save this for another time, possibly tomorrow, if I have the time, I will write solely on this issue, because we believe the zionist Jew presence in this region is the cause for all our problems. So please wait a day or so, and I will explain this too, if I may.

As to your last question, this is an interesting one, because even my akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden criticizes the relationship between former President Bush, President Clinton and President Bush (now in office) working with King Fahd bin Abdul Aziz and (now) Prince Abdullah since the 1990 al kuwayt-el Araa' war. My akhi, as do myself and many in Saudi Arabia believe the current monarchy is illegitimate and is illegally occupying our holy parts, Medina and Mecca, and that only with US support, can Prince Abdullah continue doing so.

In so many words, that I can place here, I too believe as do my akhi, that Prince Abdullah forgets who he serves. It is not Bush (sheetaan) but only Allaah. This is all I will say on this most sensitive issue.

The last thing I would like to say, is to the caption of this post: Qitaal fi Sabeel Allaah. I will leave you with the following from the qur'aan.

qur'aan 8:60-61 "You shall prepare for them all the power you can muster, and all the equipment you can mobilize, that you may frighten the enemies of Allaah, your enemies, as well as others who are not known to you, Allaah knows them. Whatever you spend in the cause of Allaah will be repaid to you generously, without the least injustice. If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in Allaah."

I have put my trust only in Allaah, insha'Allaah.



[edit on 31-10-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]

[edit on 31-10-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]

[edit on 31-10-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]

[edit on 31-10-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]




posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 12:04 AM
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In Saudi Arabia, under Shari'ah law, we can use the internet for certain purposes. The Council of Ministers, which regulates the entire web in Saudi Arabia place censors on certain links, anything to do with haraam, that is, alcohol, sex, drugs, certain book sites, all Christian and zionist Jewish sites, even Yahoo chat, the link will not work, certain Paltalk chatrooms are banned, links for Christian, Judaism and certain social issue rooms will not work, the entire music section links will not work. There are only a few internet providers, like Arabian Electronic Network and Batelco Juraisy Limited, but these internet providers must adhere by all the Council of Ministers decrees.


so how do you know that what you are being told in reference to christianity and judaism is correct if you are not allowed to to read christian and jewish books?

also, you stated in the introduction thread that all of our questions had been answered. they were not. you did not go anywhere near the issue of suicide bombers killing innocent women and children.



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 01:01 AM
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I read a quote from you perhaps a day or two ago, in which you basically said Saudi's would invade Isreal.

Do you really support this?



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123

In Saudi Arabia, under Shari'ah law, we can use the internet for certain purposes. The Council of Ministers, which regulates the entire web in Saudi Arabia place censors on certain links, anything to do with haraam, that is, alcohol, sex, drugs, certain book sites, all Christian and zionist Jewish sites,



Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123

www.ict.org.il...



www.ict.org.il

is The Institute for Counter-Terrorism - a research institute and think tank dedicated to developing innovative public policy solutions to international terrorism -

- and as one could easy see by the internet ending www........il - an Israeli organisation:
  • Mailing Address:

    ICT - At the Interdisciplinary Center Herzlia
    P.O.Box 167, Herzlia, 46150,Israel

  • Fax: 972-9-9513073



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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yeah, i'm really starting to wonder about this guy. he stated in his first introduction posts that he had never been to the US, and that he didnt speak english very well. however, his english is not only perfect, its perfect in the american sense, not british, complete with american phrases. furthermore, his use of israeli sites when he supposedly cannot access them is also suspect.

HEY MODS...can we check his IP and see if he is actually posting from the middle east? i've got a feeling he's not....at least not Saudi.

the rules for this site clearly state that intentionally lying in your posts for any reason is grounds for being banned.



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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"...Islaam means to totally submit to the will of Allaah. We are slaves of Allaah. All the time, we say, laa ilaaha ill-Allaah (there is none truly worthy of worship except Allaah). So I would like to ask you, if I may (or anyone who reads this): wouldn't you agree, that when you give your complete will to your God/Allaah, that no matter what your God/Allaah's will is, it will be done? In Islaam, throughout our lives, we live and breathe Allaah's will via the qur'aan. Muhammad (PBUH) received from Allaah all that we must follow so we may never go to jahannam (I hope I do not have to explain this, in order to keep within the Terms of Agreement). What I am saying is, whatever the qur'aan states, we must follow. And we follow willingly. akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is simply following what the qur'aan states. I hope you do understand..."


I understand that 100%. And that is your right to believe this, AND there is nothing wrong with that belief.

But the problem is that there are extremists among this belief who act violently against others who do not share that belief. That’s the critical issue. Why should other beliefs be forced (through violence) to adhere to Islamic practice? They shouldn’t (and vice versa).

I hate to burst your bubble, but my beliefs to me, are just as powerful and meaningful as yours are to you.

One thing I have learned about Islam, and the backbone of the very problem, is that the people of Islam will not and have not ever taken any responsibility for coexistence with other faiths and beliefs, Allah forbids it. The Qur’an does not allow you to make sacrifices to coexist.

Quotes from the Qur’an:


2:98 Who is an enemy to Allah, and His angels and His messengers, and Gabriel and Michael! Then, lo! Allah (Himself) is an enemy to the disbelievers.

2:104 O ye who believe, say not (unto the Prophet): "Listen to us" but say "Look upon us," and be ye listeners. For disbelievers is a painful doom.

3:12 Say (O Muhammad) unto those who disbelieve: Ye shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell, an evil resting-place.


(NOTE: There are 392 negative references to disbelievers in the Qur’an)

So the issue isn’t that non Muslims don’t want or allow people to follow the Islamic faith, its that the Islamic extremists follow the preaching’s of the Qur’an and act on them.



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
You must try to understand, it is against strict Salafi teaching for non-Muslims to be based in our country. It is haraam (unlawful).

However it seems that the councils of religious scholars and preists don't agree with this. Indeed, the Saud King seems to have deemed that al-qaida is the one that is anathema.

Just like we do not allow any zionist Jews into our country, just like we do not permit Christians to wear crosses in public,
From what I understand the shia sect is 'haraam' too? Or is it a slightly different status?

If we have any questions or doubts, we go to our Imaam.

I'm very curious to see how the dependence on the religious leaders factors in to this new initiative in saudi arabia. Perhaps you'd like to comment on the specifics in that thread mentioned above tho. Or here, as you like.


wouldn't you agree, that when you give your complete will to your God/Allaah, that no matter what your God/Allaah's will is, it will be done?

Agreed. And I'd like to point out that it works in precisely the same way in christianity, just like with Abraham's sacrifice of Isiah, for example.


akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is simply following what the qur'aan states. I hope you do understand.

But he is following his understanding of it no? Not that of the councils of clerics right, like the 'wahabi' council in saudi arabia right?


a fatwa is not evil

I don't think that I stated it was evil, and I think that we can agree that it isn't, a fatwa, as I understand it, is just a religious ruling agreed upon by a
respected council of religious leaders/scholars/preists/whathaveyou. Somewhat like a catholic Catcheism.


to fulfill Allaah's will in whatever situation that may arise. And we as Muslims/Muslimahs abide by such legal rulings

But what of rulings that condem bin laden and his actions?

Here is a direct link to that page that you reference:
TIMELINE SURROUNDING SEPTEMBER 11TH

Which cites, amoung other things:

Employees of Odigo, Inc. in Israel, one of the world's largest instant messaging companies with offices in New York, receive threat warnings of an imminent attack on the WTC less than two hours before the first plane hits.

This is completely and utterly false.


A freshman at Brooklyn's New Utrecht High School who had recently emigrated from Pakistan reportedly predicts the destruction of the World Trade Center a week prior to the 9-11 attacks,

This really isn't very meaningful and certainly doesn't implicate the administration.

I have to ask, you seem to be saying that bin ladin couldn't've carried out the attacks, because they were wrong, and muslims are forbidden from doing wrong. So what exactly is bin ladin doing? Why is he relevant at all, since the Saudi King didn't have any use for him, and since the council of clerics in saudi arabia had nothing particularly good to say about him. I mean, if he didn't do 911, then he's a nobody really.




, with Wahabbis (Salafi-Sunni) who are dead set against the powers that be which want to rule all of the middle east.

But the actual wahabi clerics haven't done anythign of the sort. And it looks like, given the above statements of the King, who almost certainly consulted with the councils (no?), that they are actually moving against bin ladin.


Also, Iran is surrounded by Iraq and Afghanistan, so when the US government can gather enough support via a media propaganda campaign, it will force Iran into a war.

Why would iran need to be forced into a war tho? The iranian revolutionaries seem to be stating tha the US is the 'great satan', ie, the one who is opposed to the Imam (from what I understand about the pecularities of shia islam), and thus, aren't they actually required to make war against the US, as an agent of Satan? IOW, why would the US have to 'force' them into war, they'd gladly enter it no? And if its a duty to fight people that've invaded lands of the muslims, then why hasn't iran declared war already, or syria or kuwait for that matter?
Also, the US is in saudi arabia at the request of the Saudi Government, which is backed by the councils of clerics and thus the koran itself no? So it can't be considered a valid cause for a struggle no?




We have the oil, and the westerners want it.

Yes, need it actually.


Plus, after any war that is carried out, the western powers attempt to modernize our societies, even though we are unlikely to follow suit.

Why? Iraq modernized rather quickly in the early years of its republic no? As have syria and egypt and lebanon no?


As Muslims/Muslimahs, we submit completely to the will of Allaah. If an Imaam issues a fatwa, we follow it. Islaamic life is very simple.

But there are conflicting fatwas, how is this reconciled? The imams have said that bin ladin is not a good guy, that what he did was against the koran.


when he was on the cross, this shows alone, that he is separate from God/Allaah.

How so? Couldn't god do whatever he wanted?



r next question, basically put, the CIA is using akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden to bring in the new world order, whereas my akhi is simply doing the will of Allaah.

So the will of god is subservient to and a part of the plan of the NWO? Or does this mean that bin ladin cannot be defeated? And again, (and I am not trying to harp on this), what about the imams that've noted that bin ladin is doing something un-koranic?


As for Shi'ite, as explained above, a Shi'ite only believes in the qur'aan, whereas, a Sunni believes in the qur'aan and sunnah.

Yes, but this seems to have lots of other implications no? Its seems to me, as an outsider, that the shia tend to have more interest in saints and in something that is almost like incarnations of the 'iman', whereas sunnis are more 'strict' in their observance. An interesting observation that i have seen is that the Shia are more like the christians, and that the sunni are more like the jews, not literally of course but that the sunni take a more strict and traditionalist approach whereas the shia add things and 'venerate' other later individuals like the 12 imans and the like.


but in school, we simply wrote, es-soAdayya).

Hmmm, seems like "saudi" would be an english analog to the country then. I had thought it was a shorthand only used by westerners, but that seems to support it.







believe the current monarchy is illegitimate and is illegally occupying our holy parts, Medina and Mecca,

Is this beleif not against islam tho, since the councils of imams support the royals?


It is not Bush (sheetaan) but only Allaah.

Do you beleive that bush is satan or that he is a pawn or agent of satan?
Are you familiar with the way christians think about satan? How do you see that as beign different from the islamic 'sheetaan'?



skippy
with other faiths and beliefs, Allah forbids it. The Qur’an does not allow you to make sacrifices to coexist.

This is sheer folly tho, islam has certainly treated the native/pagan beleifs
of the lands that its conquered far better than, say, christianity. Merely look at the number of non-islamic religions and sects that exist in muslim lands, as compared to europe. Europe is almost completely and utterly christianized, with only some jews added to the mix (ignoring modern reappearances of 'pagan' religions). Whereas in the middle east, there are the Unitarians ('druze'), the luciferians, the zoroasterians, hindus, etc. The conquering culture tends to attract members from the conquered culture, but its silly to say that the koran demands that muslims destroy and root out other religions, if that were the least bit true, then these other religions wouldn't even be around.

skippy
unto those who disbelieve: Ye shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell, an evil resting-place

THis is exactly the same statement made from the christians to non-christians, and furthermore in the koranic text you cited its made in the context of enemies of the faith, as opposed to merely people who are ignorant of the faith, an equivalent would be to talk about what christianity has to say about followers of the anti-christ, then.


its that the Islamic extremists follow the preaching’s of the Qur’an and act on them.

You yourself note that these are 'extremists', that is, practioners of an ideology, and thus an interpretation of the koran. There is no 'neutral' or 'natural' or uniterpreted readings of any holy text. Muslim radicals make the koran fit into their radical ideas, just like radical christians make the bible fit into their radical ideas, or just like radical jews will make the torah fit into their ideas.



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700
HEY MODS...can we check his IP and see if he is actually posting from the middle east? i've got a feeling he's not....at least not Saudi.

the rules for this site clearly state that intentionally lying in your posts for any reason is grounds for being banned.


I suppose someone is not REQUIRED to give their location. For the most part I don't care...but in this instance when you review the entire "message" being spread it seems different.

I really don't think people should be banned for choosing to not reveal their location. It's personal choice. But to MISLEAD people on purpose simply to try and add some sense of false credibility is wrong.

That being said, and for those who have made very intellegent deductions here...I wish that you al tawbah 9 123 would stop telling people you have never been to the USA. You know that is incorrect.


By answering my u2u with more babble than actual answers why you have chosen to mislead people...it really seems you are here to promote some agenda and I certainly will let our members be aware of the matter.


The answer to your question above Snafu is...no.



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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Nygdan,

I don’t care for the Christian faith either, but that’s not the topic of this thread and a poor excuse to use to reason another faiths violence.

But I do not fear Christians and their faith forcing me to adhere to their belief. I have yet to see Christians rioting in the streets and burning flags in protest of Islam’s disrespect for its religious practices.

Is there Christian violence? Sure. Are there Christian whack jobs using violence to further their agendas? Of course. There will ALWAYS be people who take their beliefs to the extreme and act violently as a result.

But the Qur’an, the very backbone of the Islamic faith, preaches religious intolerance for any other belief but its own. And all but mandates the death and destruction of the disbelievers. You cannot deny what the actual Qur’an states Ny, you just cant.

How many Christians have migrated to other nations in modern times and attempted to force those societies to comply with their faith? How many headlines do we read each day about crosses that have hung in schools for 50 years being removed because it offends one Muslim student? That’s called "Dhimmitude", and it will be the death of the West.

If I decided to move to a nation dominated by Islam, I would fully expect to comply with any rules or customs as a result. But why do some Muslims feel that their faith is exempt from reciprocating the same religious respect when the tables are reversed? Why do Muslims care about what happens half way across the world in non Muslim nations regarding customs that may or may not offend their faith or conflict with it?

The Qur’an itself teaches this intolerance and unfortunately there are enough people of the faith to make it the world’s problem through violence and terrorism.

I’ve never lost a wink of sleep because of Buddhist, Hindu or Christian terrorists, but I think about Islamic terrorists each and every night…




(Although I should mention I am terrified of Scientologists...)


[edit on 4-11-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
Saddam Hussein was ousted from his government because he decided to defy the UN or the powers that be. I agree with him on that point


You agree with him on that point? The point that he killed thousands of innocent people. That is why he was ousted from his Government? Put me straight here, for i am some what confused.



Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
In Islaam, throughout our lives, we live and breathe Allaah's will via the qur'aan. What I am saying is, whatever the qur'aan states, we must follow. And we follow willingly.


Does it say in the qur'aan that you should kill in order to gain martyrdom? That is what the suicide bombers claim all the time. Or they are lead to believe that is what will become of them. (brainwashing?)
Sorry, but i guess you follow it blindly based on your quotations.

Question for you. Do you agree with the innocent slaying of innocents based on the quotations you have posted?
Do you agree with the killing of innocent Westerners in the name of your God?
Or, do you just follow what is preached to you by your religious leaders based upon their ideology of their interpretation of the qur'aan?

I cannot find anywhere in the qur'aan that it states you have to kill to become any kind of martyr.
Please show me i am wrong................

I doubt we will get any response from al tawbah 9 123. I think it was a one post gesture to promote some kind of qur'aan based ideology to try and cover up some of the qur'aan based orientated followers beliefs.
This is not some kind of racist/anti religion based comment either. It is a point as i see it.........



[edit on 4-11-2005 by Bikereddie]



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700
yeah, i'm really starting to wonder about this guy. he stated in his first introduction posts that he had never been to the US, and that he didnt speak english very well. however, his english is not only perfect, its perfect in the american sense, not british, complete with american phrases. furthermore, his use of israeli sites when he supposedly cannot access them is also suspect.

HEY MODS...can we check his IP and see if he is actually posting from the middle east? i've got a feeling he's not....at least not Saudi.

the rules for this site clearly state that intentionally lying in your posts for any reason is grounds for being banned.


I realize you are not here in Saudi Arabia, so I have nothing to fear about such information. And I see I am having difficulty with the members of this web site concerning my IP address.

There are many ways to get around the world wide web, to access information that may help in my struggle for Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta'aala), so I will divulge only so much, so you may focus back on the issues rather than on myself.

astaghfi-rullaah

Wiith my brothers and sisters, we have learned how to live quietly (I hope you understand what I am saying). There is such a thing as an anonymous proxy server. I had one through stayinvisible.com, but I no longer use this service. I cannot tell you which one I am using now.

I hope this helps this community as to the mystery of where I am or why there is such confusion in regards to the IP. I will leave it at this. (I can only hope, in the terms of the ATS agreement, this is not a violation)

Ya Allaah, bismillaahir-rahmaanir-raheem



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123

I realize you are not here in Saudi Arabia, so I have nothing to fear about such information. And I see I am having difficulty with the members of this web site concerning my IP address.

There are many ways to get around the world wide web, to access information that may help in my struggle for Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta'aala), so I will divulge only so much, so you may focus back on the issues rather than on myself.

astaghfi-rullaah

Wiith my brothers and sisters, we have learned how to live quietly (I hope you understand what I am saying). There is such a thing as an anonymous proxy server. I had one through stayinvisible.com, but I no longer use this service. I cannot tell you which one I am using now.

I hope this helps this community as to the mystery of where I am or why there is such confusion in regards to the IP. I will leave it at this. (I can only hope, in the terms of the ATS agreement, this is not a violation)

Ya Allaah, bismillaahir-rahmaanir-raheem


LMAO. you are completely contradicting what you said in earlier posts about not doing anything against the will of allah. bypassing the system certainly counts.

however, this does not explain your perfect use of american english, including phrases and spelling. how do you explain this with your, as you said in an earlier post, poor english skills?

i personally think you are full of crap. i have no doubt that you are muslim and therefore quite knowledgeable in the faith. hell, you might even be from saudi arabia originally, but you are most definitely in the states now and have been for quite some time to be able to express yourself as well as you do.

i also do not doubt your strong desire to express your views of the american and muslim worlds. and that is perfectly reasonable......but if you want people to listen to what you are saying, starting out with lies about who and where you are is not the way to go about it.

furthermore, you STILL have not answered my questions about suicide bombers intentionally targetting fellow muslim women and children.



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 10:08 PM
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In Saudi Arabia, English is taught regularly in secondary schools. I never said I have poor English skills, I said from the beginning, if you read any of my posts, that I have a rather good grasp of the English language. I do prefer Arabic, but I am afraid I'd lose many on this site if I spoke strictly in Arabi (inta fahamt?)

I have also said, I am no Imaam, but I will tell anyone about Islaam the best way I know. As far as intentionally targeting innocent Muslimah (females) and chidlren, I think this is American and Israeli media propaganda. We never intentionally target any of our brothers and sisters. And if any of our brothers and sisters do die in darul-harb, I am sure Allaah will show mercy on them (rahima-hallaah aw hullaah).

I do not think it is appropriate to speak about such matters in this forum, unless the admin do not mind, then I will.

As far as our government in Saudi Arabia, very few people outside of the country really understand the oppositional fronts that underlie our political system. If you have read any of my posts, you will find that I agree with my akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden that our Prince Abdullah is serving sheetaan rather Allaah when he takes it upon himself to conspire with western powers.

I hope this answered your questions, insha'Allaah

[edit on 4-11-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]

[edit on 4-11-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]

[edit on 4-11-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 10:10 PM
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I will answer each of your points as soon as I finish the Zionst Arab Conflict post in the next day or so. Thanks for your patience, insha'Allaah



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 10:54 PM
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ok, for the sake of argument, lets say you are where and who you say. that still does not explain your earlier post in which you said that you do not have access to christian and jewish sites, and would not visit any sites not allowed by your government.

it has been proven that you used a jewish site.

you have admitted to bypassing the system to access sites that arent allowed.

you have also said that you could not believe this site was not on the banned list. well, if you are using a proxy server, of course you would be able to access it.

i'm sorry, there are just too many holes in your story. youre either a crackpot trying to gain more support for his views by claiming to be a saudi citizen in saudi, or you are a hypocrite and sinner to your own faith.

so which is it?



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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I was tired of hearing about the IP, so I explain as best as I could why the mix up on the IP.

I believe I am serving Allaah's cause, and as long as I do so, then I will be fine. Even my akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden worked with the CIA for a little bit of time, in order to serve the will of Allaah.

I realize it is hard to understand the reasons Muslims/Muslimahs do certain things, but if you can understand the will of Allaah, you may understand the motives behind some of the actions we take.

Actually, I think wasting all this time on who and what I am serves no purpose other than solving some sort of a mystery. I rather remain with the issues themselves, as when I write on the Zionist Arab Conflict. If there are any questions and comments on Islaam itself, I will reply the best way I know, for I am no Imaam.

I look forward to your next reply, insha'Allaah.

shokran wa tisbah ala kheer, naAsaan dilwa'ti ana (I am now sleepy, so thank you and goodnight)



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 11:59 AM
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Indeed, everyone needs to focus on the subject of the thread, not rumours about what someone's IP address is. We in moderation check IPs of posters, if there were a problem, we'd've taken care of it.


Al tawbah, as far as using a proxy to access information that is blocked, I just don't understand, the information is blocked by the Ruler, and the ruler is backed by the council of clerics no? So how can one access it and still be doing god's will?

Not trying to make this too personal, I just don't understand how one the one hand, so much emphasis is placed on councils of clerics, and on the other those councils can be ignored so easily. Or even how the rulers can be ignored, since they have the explicit approval and backing of the councils.


BTW, how many councils are there in Saudi? I'm under the impression that there is one big one, with membership that changes every so often. Are there other councils across the world that are also of good enough stature that most muslims pay attention to what they decree?



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 02:31 PM
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I will answer your questions to the best of my knowledge, again, I am no Imaam, so please understand.

In Saudi Arabia, you ask if there are councils of clerics. Actually, in Saudi Arabia, there is a consultative council also known as the Majlis al-Shura. King Abdallah bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud consults with this council of religious and regulatory matters. There are a few other councils or ministries, not all come to mind, but there is the Ministrry of Information, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Ministry of Civil Service, Ministry of Haj, Ministry of Islaamic Affairs. The Majlis al-Shura is the major council in Saudi Arabia. As for as those outside of Saudi Arabia, the only ones that come to mind are Gulf Cooperation Council, Muslim Council of Britain, and (my favorite), 'l'tilaf al-khayr (Union of Good).

As for your other questions, I will try to answer them:

Shia is about 5% of the overall population, they are mainly located in Qatif and Al Ahsa (eastern part of the country).

There are many political, economic, and social reforms underway, which are against qur'aan and sunnah teaching, reforms such as women empowerment, abolishing special courts, releasing political prisoners, ending torture, ensuring basic freedoms, republic form of government, that is, more of a constitutional (monarchy) form of a republic rather than the absolute monarchy that we currently have, to form unrestricted political parties, for women to be able to drive, for women to vote and run for office, just to name a few.

My akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden wants to bring our country back to the way it was during Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) time. Whereas, King Abdallah is in conflict with Prince Nayef, who also supports akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden, Prince Nayef is the interior minister, his basic message is tawhid (that is, one God/Allaah), whereas, King Abdullah wants the reforms because he is pressured by the west (Bush, Blair, etc).

akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden is a Wahhabiya (Wahhabi Sunni), we adhere to the qur'aan and sunnah in its absolute literal meaning. Most Imaams support my akhi, for instance, Sheikh Suleiman al-Alwan supports him (he too is a Wahhabi).

Let me explain something, to give this a little perspective, for I find myself keep repeating myself, if I may.

Briefly, in 1734, there was a pact between Ibn Saud and Mohammed ibn Abdul Wahhab which called for an alliance between the clergy and the political authorities, which separated affairs of state, where Ibn Saud's family was in charge, except in religious matters, this was the left to the clergy. Hanbalism, a very strict school of Sunni thought, valued civil peace, so the arrangement worked very well. But in the 1960's or thereabout, Saudi Arabia had to contend with Egyptian leader Nasser, Arab nationalists and progressives. So the clergy turned to the Muslim Brotherhood. Eventually, Muslim Brotherhood set up in Saudi Arabia, took over most of the educational system, and adhered to Wahhabism. After the Afghanistan war, Wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood merged to produce takfiri jikadi which permits violence against Muslim authorities which are involved with westerners or progressives, etc. I hope you understand a little about the history of this particular matter.

astaghfi-rullaah

There are also statutes that King Abdullah must follow such as council of ministers statute, consultative council statute, regional authorities establishment act, etc.

Like I said, most Imaams support akhi Osama bin Muhammad bin Awad bin Laden, for instance, the major Imaams of Saudi Arabia who support him are Saleh ibn Abdullah Humaid, he is a member of the Shoura council and an Imaam of the Grand Mosque in Makkah; and Sheikh Salah Al-Bedair, Imaam and khateeb of Prophet Mosque in Madinah.

In Islaam, there is Iblis (Satan) who is not a fallen angel (as in Christianity), nor is Iblis an agent of God/Allaah. al-Shaitaan (sheetaan/satan) means transgressor in Islaam.

I hope this helps you to understand Islaam or our way of life more, insha'Allaah.

[edit on 7-11-2005 by al tawbah 9 123]



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