Hugo Chavez Orders American Missionaries Expelled

Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by Mayet

Snaf ..you seem big on Proof... How do you define proof? I am a bigger one on truth than proof, proof can be faked but there is only one truth.....

You guys that keep calling "prove it" everytime someone posts something I personally suggest you could start researching yourself on these matters and supply counter arguments.

i really dont know what you are going off on a tantrum about. i find your proof perfectly acceptable. that's all i asked for, references to back up your claims....why is that an unreasonable request?

That was no tantrum.... haven't seen one of my tantrums around here... lol I'd be well banned by now....

No I just get tried of people posting replies with nothing but "prove it" everytime someone says something, especially when it is common knowledge and common sense as in this case.

"prove it" statements do not add intelligent argument or dissection of a theory or opinion or even something based in fact. I feel it is a waste of the reply button. That is just my "opinion" of course. I feel it would be far more worthwhile and beneficial to the thread in question to simply use google to refute a statement that someone has made and post links and quote to arguments against.

For example Missionaries have not destroyed native cultures as is found in the followings articles...here and here....

Or I do not agree with your stance on this subject and I say that missionaries have not destroyed native cultures as can be referenced here...and here...

not just hand on hips, lip out, foot stamp and "prove it"

so nah that was no tantie

And Nerdling your analogy was perfect......




[edit on 1-11-2005 by Mayet]

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Then why the bible lessons? Oh, of course, they're "helping" the heathens get the word of God so they won't be left out on judgment day. All indiginous people have their own culture which is heavily tied up in their religion, they don't need Christianity brought in to undermine their culture. I've seen too much of this crap in SEAsia.

Yeah, Christianity is HORRIBLE! Just look at what it's done to our society thelast few decades....wait....our society has gone to pot because of the agenda to remove it from our culture and nation. Whew! For a minute there I almost had a knee-jerk reaction based on nothing.

My evidence is from my experience, I said where it was gained. Cambodia is a Buddhist nation. But we have Mormons and Christian missionaries here trying to convert the heathens.

I will say only this: Buddhists have never gone to war with each other over Buddha. They have also never gone to war with anybody else over Buddha.

Can the same be said about Christians?
mod edit to shorten multi-quotes

[edit on 2-11-2005 by DontTreadOnMe]

For me, in the world today I guess one of my values is the benifit of setting up

A market-place of ideas.

This means people get to offer their discoveries, beliefs, and opinions to anyone who is interested, without hounding anyone who doesn't want to hear it.

If those missionaries were pestering people, then I can see having them expelled as a nuissance. If they were more of a nuissance than, say, billboards for cigarettes and liquor, etc. You know, the stuff we have to tolerate from corporations.

If someone wants to stand on the sidewalk and hand out pamphlets for Buddha, Wicca, or Bob, then I say fine. As long as they pick up the trash after people throw 'em away. But not being able to follow people home or do telemarketing or something. That ought to be illegal for salesmen of all stripes, regardless of what they sell.

Still, I strongly suspect that Hugo expelled these people, not because of the content of their materials, (since most urban Venezuelans are catholics anyway), but because he didn't want people chronicling his govt's abuse of native cultures.

He didn't want missionairies abusing the indians, since he plans to do so himself, and get their land in the bargain.

Or didn't you read the post about 1500 'extra-judicial' executions of indians and ranchers since 2000?

Someone feel like clearing up the "ranchers" and "Indians" mystery here.

Because in the rest of SAmerica the ranchers are the ones exploiting the Indians. The ranchers are descended from the Spanish and Portuguese colonists who dispossessed the Indians in the first place and in places like Costa Rica it was the ranchers driving the deforestation of the country in search of grazing land so they could supply McDonalds with their 100% American Beef.

In the Amazonian basin it is outsiders slashing and burning the jungle to plant cash crops, not the Indians.

So therefore I am wondering why Ranchers are being killed along with the Indians in Venezuela...What is different about Venezuela?

OMG Hugo Chavez is threatening to share F-16 technology with China and Cuba.

Yahoo News

This man is willing to do anything that he feels will anger US.

I agree with Chavez, I would get rid of the missionaries as well. Aside from the obvious, there is always the possibility of spies inflirtrating the religious or charitable organisations.

As for proof of Chavez' paranoia - well, we have plenty of that and as fellow conspiracy theorists, we understand how this works don't we? There is some factual information to confirm his fears, but we can't really prove whether or not what he is saying is true, which is not to say he is making it all up.

I have plenty of experience seeing missionaries do their work in South America and I have never been impressed by their treatment of the natives.

The organisation Mr Chavez intends to remove, New Tribes Mission, is, he suggests, spying on behalf of the CIA. Unfounded hearsay? Maybe. Then again, some believe the CIA was complicit in a failed coup against Mr Chavez in 2002. An investigation by the Observer that year indicated that Washington had indeed sanctioned the attempted overthrow. And just last month Chavez told ABC News’ Ted Koppel that he had seen evidence of US plans to invade Venezuela.

Guardian


[edit on 2-11-2005 by nikelbee]

Originally posted by NotheRaGe
OMG Hugo Chavez is threatening to share F-16 technology with China and Cuba.

Yahoo News

This man is willing to do anything that he feels will anger US.

OMIGAWD!!! Didnt Israel already sell Harpy Killer unmanned attack drones to China?! I mean Chavez has threatened, Israel actually DID IT.

Originally posted by Dae

Originally posted by NotheRaGe
OMG Hugo Chavez is threatening to share F-16 technology with China and Cuba.

Yahoo News

This man is willing to do anything that he feels will anger US.

OMIGAWD!!! Didnt Israel already sell Harpy Killer unmanned attack drones to China?! I mean Chavez has threatened, Israel actually DID IT.

You have voted Dae for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by rotgeist
The CIA tried specifically to have him removed from power (after being democratically elected in internationally monitored elections) and nearly succeeded. His paranoia is warranted.

got ani proof of dat? Chavez usually tries to paint the attempted coup as back by the CIA instead of a popular coup from within his own population. dats the best way to counter such coup is to make it unpopular like they believe it was the CIA instead of the members of his own military who condemned his attacks on protestors who opposed him, etc.

Well first, it wasn't a popular uprising.

And there is some evidence to suggest that the CIA was indeed involved.


CIA documents:

www.venezuelafoia.info...
www.venezuelafoia.info...
www.venezuelafoia.info...
www.venezuelafoia.info...
www.venezuelafoia.info...
www.venezuelafoia.info...
www.venezuelafoia.info...

Documents from Brooklyn, NY-based lawyer Eva Golinger's site, www.venezuelafoia.info... where there are these and many more, that she obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

The documents show clearly that the White House knew that there were detailed plans for a coup in April, that these plans included arresting the President, and that "to provoke military action, the plotters might try to exploit unrest stemming from opposition demonstrations." That is exactly what happened on April 11.

Yet on April 12, White House spokesman Ari Fleischer gave the coup leaders' version of events -- that violence at the demonstrations had led to Chavez' "resignation," and that the government was responsible for the violence. "The results of these events are now that President Chavez has resigned the presidency. Before resigning, he dismissed the vice president and the cabinet, and a transitional civilian government has been installed."

...

In other words, the Bush Administration was not just lying about what it knew, but actively joining the coup leaders in their short-lived attempt to convince the media and the world that a "transitional civilian government" had legitimately seized power in order to defend the public from alleged state violence. And all the while knowing that this was false, and that the military coup was part of a plan that they knew about in advance.

From:

www.cepr.net...

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Spoken like a true anti-Christian! Yep, these people performing the Great Commission as Christ said to do is doing so much harm - NOT! LOL! Assertions with little to no facts.

"Thou shall not commit murder"
"Shut up!! Don't tell them that!"

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that ye shall not die but have everlasting life!"
"Stop it!! Shut up!! They have no business knowing that!!!"

Give me a break. Anything else is ok, but not those pesky Christians, right?

Sorry, but I refuse to believe 100% into a book that was not only rewritten time after time, but also ADDED to it??????

I mean come on now, WTF is up with that? I also do not believe in a religion that was "made" up and derived from another religion.

But hey, so MANY people around here do not realize that ALL religions all go back to ONE main thing. Since people are too wrapped up in their own separate religions to even realize that and that is where ignorance comes in.

One should NOT force their religions down others throats, to me that is just plain wrong.

President Chavez of a country very rich in mineral resources, especially oil probably has good reason to be paranoid.

If I was an official I know I wouldn't tolerate missonarys coming into my community to derail the established relegion or stir up trouble of anykind. Most missionaries are kind, sincere people; what a great place to imbed a terrorist or spy.