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Hugo Chavez Orders American Missionaries Expelled

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posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 12:30 AM
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The president of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez has ordered missionaries that have worked and lived with the Joti Indians for almost 2 decades. They have provided medical help, bible lessons and have even learned the language. Now Chavez has ordered anyone assosiated with the U.S.-based evangelical group, New Tribes Mission, to leave the country at once as he claims thay have a CIA link. Hmmm deep cover in the middle of BF nowhere so they can overthrow him now??? I know this guy has fans here, but he reminds me of a little dog barking away in a yard.




CANO IGUANA, Venezuela - Deep in the jungle, Indians wearing loincloths and beaded necklaces gather in a hut to hear their leader question why the American missionaries who help them are being told to leave the country.

The missionaries have been here for years, offering Bible lessons, helping cure the sick and painstakingly learning the Indians' language. Now, President Hugo Chavez says their U.S.-based evangelical group has links to the CIA, and he ordered all missionaries working with the New Tribes Mission to leave Venezuela.

"They've always helped us, they've lived among us," said tribal leader Timoteo Tute, 42. "How can they send them away?"

Four American families assigned to live in Cano Iguana say they hope to stay but are preparing for the worst in case they are evicted. During 18 years among the Joti Indians, missionary Susan Rodman said she and her husband, Dave, have raised three children, learned to deal with the isolation and battled bouts of malaria.
Expelled




posted on Oct, 30 2005 @ 09:54 AM
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All right, NOW I think Chavez is getting a little too paranoid. While I wouldn't dismiss out of hand the possibility that some missionaries might actually be CIA, I don't think it's all that likely.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 09:27 PM
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The CIA tried specifically to have him removed from power (after being democratically elected in internationally monitored elections) and nearly succeeded. His paranoia is warranted.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by rotgeist
The CIA tried specifically to have him removed from power (after being democratically elected in internationally monitored elections) and nearly succeeded. His paranoia is warranted.


got ani proof of dat? Chavez usually tries to paint the attempted coup as back by the CIA instead of a popular coup from within his own population. dats the best way to counter such coup is to make it unpopular like they believe it was the CIA instead of the members of his own military who condemned his attacks on protestors who opposed him, etc.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 11:48 PM
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while i have no doubt the CIA has tried to eliminate him, i also would like to see some proof of that.

i suggest everyone go out and rent "the mouse that roared." it should be very enlightening as far as this guy is concerned.



edited for my own ignorance


[edit on 31-10-2005 by snafu7700]



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 12:16 AM
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and good on him....missionarys have done more damage to indigenous native peoples than any other environmental disaster in the world.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Mayet
and good on him....missionarys have done more damage to indigenous native peoples than any other environmental disaster in the world.



again, any proof to go with those remarks? your opinion is all well and good, but state it as your opinion or back it up with proof.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by rotgeist
The CIA tried specifically to have him removed from power


everyone claims this on an unfounded, unproven accusation by chavez.....nothing credible just hearsay.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by Mayet
and good on him....missionarys have done more damage to indigenous native peoples than any other environmental disaster in the world.



maybe 100+ years ago, they arent about conversion like in the colonial days, they help for the sake of helping.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by Mayet
and good on him....missionarys have done more damage to indigenous native peoples than any other environmental disaster in the world.



maybe 100+ years ago, they arent about conversion like in the colonial days, they help for the sake of helping.


Then why the bible lessons? Oh, of course, they're "helping" the heathens get the word of God so they won't be left out on judgment day. All indiginous people have their own culture which is heavily tied up in their religion, they don't need Christianity brought in to undermine their culture. I've seen too much of this crap in SEAsia.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 02:25 AM
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Proof ok...well I shouldn't have to really provide proof on this particular point because it is kind of obvious to the world what missionaries spreading the christian word have done to indigenous people the world over.

They take them away from their heathen beliefs, change the ways the people live, indoctrinate them with gods word and laws which take them away from hundreds of years of peaceful living, they try to culturize these people without a care about preserving these peoples lifes and beliefs, they tell them the way they have worshipped the earth and the stars for years is wrong, now we worship a man. they try to make these people civilised. Kids who once ran care free and butt naked now have to wear "western attire" small point you say...huge point I say, they now have taught those people shame. Shame of all which is natural. ..

but just to makes you hapi .. I will post some quick proof found by google in the short time I have to post this reply before cooking dinner for my butt naked kids who have been outside playing in the water with cane toads and tadpoles and frogs......instead of being inside playing playstations.

======================================================

Instance 1..
whole amazon tribes wiped out from the FLU bought to them by missionaries......reference google search "missionaries flu wipeout amazon tribes"

Instance 2..
Pitcairn Island and the Seventh Day Aventists. Great case to study, shows exactly what a warped organization like the SDA can do to a small island minding their own business. For study there try any good links to Pitcairn isalnds and the rape trials. The site that comes up first in the results though, is the Pitcairn Island Study group and they are the SDA. Then read through the SDA doctine.. by Mrs White. Fascinating read, have a look at what the SDA believes of negroes.

Instance 3..
the missionaries and the stolen generations of aboriginal children in Australia, who were taken from their mothers and placed in missions. reference google search "the stolen generation"

Instance 4..
The missionaries and the destruction of the native American and south American culture.

Instance 5..
missionaries and the destruction of south sea cultures.

============================================

As a matter of fact the march of missionaries and the destruction of all native cultures they touch. ......

Tahiti they got there and told the women they were sinning by dancing as such and wearing such seductive clothing...so tahitian dancing nearly was exterminated into extinction....

Now some links that found by simply using google


www.iwchildren.org...
Civilizing" meant taking children away from their parents at the ages of 5-12 years and forcing them to live without father, mother, sister, brother in missionary schools, if you can imagine that done to a little child. This practice was not exclusive to the early years of American history but continued up until the mid 1970's in this country. Children were beaten and given forced labor during their stay in school. Participation was "optional" but missionaries controlled the annuities of food and trust money through their relationship with superintendents and the military. Families that did not surrender their children did not receive food or payments that were supposed to be guaranteed to them.

Very young children caught in this situation were brainwashed to treat their parents as savages and barbarians and they suffered terribly under this psychological torture. By this method through several generations Cherokee, like most Native Americans were stripped of the knowledge of their heritage, religious beliefs and trust of their family supports. You must remember too, that lynching by European Americans as the finely tuned entertainment and terrorizing event that it came to be in the 1920's had its proving grounds in the shadowy morality of seizure of Native American lands in order to force African Americans to be enslaved to work it. This is the furnace of economic development that fueled America's so called growth until post civil war days and was not restricted just to the South.



courses.lib.odu.edu...
The missionary who came to the village was received by the tribe. Daily he began to teach both the men and women. He had learned the tribal language and began a step-by-step approach to introducing the truths of the Bible to the tribe. He began with the story of creation and explained how sin entered the human race as a result of Adam and Eve’s disobedience to God. He later explained the account of the first Passover where God required that a spotless lamb be slain for each Israelite household. When the blood of the lamb was applied to the door post of each home, God promised that the household would be preserved from judgment (death). For those whose homes did not have the blood applied, there would be judgment, the death of the firstborn.


regarding the above quote.
Before anyone jumps at me and says it is pro missionary, I do not agree, I think leave them alone to their beliefs and then certainly don't try change them by taking away one false god and replacing him with another...sin indeed.......

Hey now this dudes good, a missionary who cut the breasts off natives...hmm
www.iwchildren.org... .. i mean he is good isn't he? he is a christian missionary after all?

=======================================================

Snafu if you need more proof just type into google "missionary destruction culture" its got thousands of links and to be honest I am not going to get into an argument over it with posts with nothing more to say than just "prove it" statements......I am sorry I havent got hard copy links to give at moment because my 1989 sociology books from uni are down at my mums in another state

*but sigh..I am sure someones bound to argue with what I have got to say so I guess I will have to make a trip to town down to the library tomorrow to supply some hard copy facts from some good sociology textbooks. Fascinating subject for sociologists. The impact missionaries had on native tribes. I got good marks on that essay...
it interested me and I always did better on stuff that interested me...

Now lets get to the nity gritty... your line said

again, any proof to go with those remarks? your opinion is all well and good, but state it as your opinion or back it up with proof.


Let me explain something about this........... Even with millions of pages of what you call "proof" supplied by me in front of you. ........ whatever I say is just my "opinion", Everything I say is my "opinion", proof or otherwise, biased or unbiased.

Namehere had a point and if you read it, you may agree with it...but guess what in the end...it is just his opinion.....

and Namehere, I don't fully agree with that statement but will concede the fact it "may" not be as bad as 100 years ago.....
but only because they have already converted them all ...


watch out to those grays and reptilians.... missionaries gonna convert you next...space aliens.... the last outpost....hmm we could make a movie out of that........... "Missionaries to Mars"

Snaf ..you seem big on Proof... How do you define proof? I am a bigger one on truth than proof, proof can be faked but there is only one truth.....

You guys that keep calling "prove it" everytime someone posts something I personally suggest you could start researching yourself on these matters and supply counter arguments.


now must go peel the spuds......


[edit on 1-11-2005 by Mayet]



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 03:18 AM
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I for one do not blame this guy, yes I think he is very paranoid but if I was the President of a country I WOULD not want missionaries in my country. That is one of the biggest problems with todays world. Others force religion down others throats. Makes me sick.

Good job Mayet



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by BlackBeard
I for one do not blame this guy, yes I think he is very paranoid but if I was the President of a country I WOULD not want missionaries in my country. That is one of the biggest problems with todays world. Others force religion down others throats. Makes me sick.

Good job Mayet


I agree with you on this and Chavez has every right to be paranoid. Bush has someone taste his food to make sure they don't die before he eats it and will not accept food from anyone until its tasted or tested by the person who does this job for him, is he paranoid?

Many leaders have been taken out by other countries and it is well known the American government does not like Chavez. Why? Because he won't cut oil deals the way they want him too. Chavez is not playing by their rules and they don't like it. It does not make him a bad guy but the so called Free American press is sure trying to paint him as a bad guy. I think he is doing what he feels is best for his country, when Bush or any other President does that it is ok, but when another leader does that they are labeled as the bad guys.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Mayet

Snaf ..you seem big on Proof... How do you define proof? I am a bigger one on truth than proof, proof can be faked but there is only one truth.....

You guys that keep calling "prove it" everytime someone posts something I personally suggest you could start researching yourself on these matters and supply counter arguments.


[edit on 1-11-2005 by Mayet]


i really dont know what you are going off on a tantrum about. i find your proof perfectly acceptable. that's all i asked for, references to back up your claims....why is that an unreasonable request?



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Originally posted by namehere

Originally posted by Mayet
and good on him....missionarys have done more damage to indigenous native peoples than any other environmental disaster in the world.



maybe 100+ years ago, they arent about conversion like in the colonial days, they help for the sake of helping.


Then why the bible lessons? Oh, of course, they're "helping" the heathens get the word of God so they won't be left out on judgment day. All indiginous people have their own culture which is heavily tied up in their religion, they don't need Christianity brought in to undermine their culture. I've seen too much of this crap in SEAsia.


Yeah, Christianity is HORRIBLE! Just look at what it's done to our society thelast few decades....wait....our society has gone to pot because of the agenda to remove it from our culture and nation. Whew! For a minute there I almost had a knee-jerk reaction based on nothing.

Yup, good thing he kicked those pesky Christian missionaries out of there; they might have taught the Joti Christ's message of love for your fellow man and all of that stuff, right.

It's really hard to have sympathy for Chavez when he does things like this, and helps terrorists kill Colombians, aligns himself with a man (Castro) who spread war across the African continent, etc.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 10:54 AM
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I think missionaries should be outlawed and deported everywhere. The harm that they do greatly outweighs any good. Every people has a right to their own religion, (or lack of it). If these people truly want to do good works, then by all means do them, but leave religion out of it. If what they do is truly for the good of the people they and their religion may gain more respect. As it is mssionaries and religion have long been used as a method of controlling other societies in a condescending manner. Go Chavez!



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 10:59 AM
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Spoken like a true anti-Christian! Yep, these people performing the Great Commission as Christ said to do is doing so much harm - NOT! LOL! Assertions with little to no facts.

"Thou shall not commit murder"
"Shut up!! Don't tell them that!"

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son so that ye shall not die but have everlasting life!"
"Stop it!! Shut up!! They have no business knowing that!!!"

Give me a break. Anything else is ok, but not those pesky Christians, right?



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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There is no Heirarchy of missionary work. It varies with each effort.

I have personally seen work on the Navajo reservation in New Mexico, where the missionaries were invited, because they were willing to provide ranch-work training (the easiest job for young Navajo men to get outside the reservation, and because some of the Native Americans themselves wanted to find out about different denominations of Christianity.

The indigenous peoples themselves get a chance to decide, too, what they want to believe, don't they?????

Another exampe is a friend of mine, ex-Green Beret, who works on in the border of Burma. The locals love him because he was trained in "Crisis Dentistry" by the US Army (meaning dentistry with no special tools or aneasthetics.) In his work, he has a price on his head from several local opium Lords. So he is set up "on the border" in no man's land.

People hike for up to 6 weeks through the jungle to come see him, learn to read, get their teeth fixed, and learn about Christianity. Many of them are titular christians, but cannot read. Their tribal chieftan is a Christian, and wants the missionaries to build a seminary to train his own people as ministers.

Look, there have been lots of abuses of indeginous peoples in the name of God. Also in the name of Krupp, DeBeers, and Texaco.

What is being done today is not the same thing as what what going on even 50 years ago. In truth, neither you nor I are in a position to judge what is going on, on the other side of the planet.

Today, most missionaries ARE NOT the arm of some government agency. They are 'independents' who usually catch more heat from the govt, while the locals want them and even hide them.

The Christian missionaries that were kidnapped in Afghanistan were taken by the Taliban; with the local muslims hiding them, and trying to buy them back. That hardly sounds like a rebellion against the "oppressor" missionaries.

Yes things done in the name of "mission work" even as recently as WWII were repugnant to any thinking person. Just because someone today gets assigned that label, doesn't mean they are behaving in precisely the same way.

And now, about the government of Venezuela:

If you actually read the state department's paper on Venezuela:

www.state.gov...

You'll see that the US charges Chavez with the same kind of prison abuse as the US is charged with at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib. Most of the Venezuelan prisons are run by untrained National Guard units located on indian lands. The state dept. also reports in excess of 1500 "extra-judicial" executions since 2000; most of them being Indians or "local ranchers."

The state dept. refers to charges leveled by the Catholic Church concerning murder, rape and torture of indians.

Hmmm. maybe the missionaries are potential witnesses????



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 11:05 AM
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I can't really fault Chavez for this.

I'm pretty quick at expelling them from my doorstep.



posted on Nov, 1 2005 @ 11:18 AM
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Nerd, why would they even bother showing up at you doorstep, what, you being a lost cause and all?


Why would a Christian family doing missionary work be involved with the CIA? They wouldn't. That is the correct answer.

Corporations, on the other hand, that is a different story. only is it a different story, it is an age-old story.



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