do all nations want israel dead?

NEO, Id rather worship the creator versus the creation an day of the week. So tell us why is paganism so appealing?

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
Hey Rikwa:

Your warped Weltanschauung has confused you again,

Neo

I am still waiting for the sources you are asked to provide for your

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS,

"unclean dogs"

claims. I am very very well aware of the "Weltanschauung" of the lots and lots of sources that provide Talmudfalsifications - believe me.

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS

Are you translating your pointed Hebrew as "a kingdom of priests" or a Kingdom AND priests?"

mamlechet kohanim ve goy kadosh - it is only possible to translate this like I did.

And again: please note the word you called 'charming': "GOY" - refers to the Jewish people

Hey Riwka:

If you REALLY want a list (as if you didn't know this heinous vomit exists in the writings of the Jews) here are some tasty morsels for you to chew on tonight: it is clear from the context that the neutral term (goy) became far more pejorative during the Tannaitic and Talmudic period in the Rabinnic writings (possibly "sour grapes" since Jerusalem was ground to poweder by the Kittim (i.e. Romans) in AD 70 and again in AD 138 during the 2nd failed Jewish revolt under Bar Kokhba...

But just for kicks and giggles, try reading some passages from the Choshen Hammishphat 34, 22 "an apostate from the faith or a Traitor to the Jews and Epicureans are all worse than THE GOYIM..."

or check out Abhodah Zarah 15b: "male animals must never be left alone in the barns with the goyim" or Abhodah Zarah 33b "never leave an animal with a female goy because they tend to have sex with animals when their husbands are out fornicating..."

or read the Biur Hetiv (pesher on Schulchan Arukh): "a Jewess must always wash herself again if she should come across a dog or a donkey or an Akum-goy, or a camel or a pig or a leper or a horse."

Or have a quick dekko (if you have time) at: Sanhedrin 74b: Tosephoth:

"for behold, the sexual act of THE GOYIM are like the sex acts of Beasts of Prey..." or Kethuboth 3b: "for the Semen of a Goy is worth the same as that of a stupid beast..."

Or even Rabbi Schlomo Iarchi (Rashi) in his lame Pesher Deut 14:21 "do not eat the flesh of wounded animals, but throw them to the gentile at the Gate: which even as it is written in Ex. 23:30, this must be thrown to the DOGS...for the Goy is Like unto a Dog: But are we to refer to a dog literally here? Not at all, for the text reads: Or you may sell it to a Stranger, applying the rule to wounded animals: Why does Scripture then say it must be thrown to the dogs, then? In order to teach you that a DOG is more respected than a Gentile Nokheri."


Or look at: Kerithuth 6b " the teachings of the Rebbes is: he who annoints a GOY with oil or a dead animal is free from sin: this is true for an animal because it is not human: but aren't the Goyim also human? By no means, for it is written: Hezekiel 34: "Ye are my flock, and the flock of my pasture are all men."

Or if you get really bored today, have a look at: the Zohar II (64b):" People who worship idols are called Cows and Donkeys, even as it is written: Behold I have a Cow and a Donkey. "

Or, Rebbe Bechai's inane comments in Kad haKkemach: "by the term Wild Piglet here the author means the Gentiles who all eat unclean Pork flesh, and like Pigs, have destroyed the Vineyard of Yisroel, the city of Jerusalem, and who worship the Messiah who was suspended."

There are several dozen more of these heinous passages, which no matter how you try to gloss over and water down for the masses on these threads, you cannot completely escape the racism inherent in them...

Of course my personal favourite comes from R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean ("Jeeezuzzz") and his encounter with the filfthy gentile "dog" Syro Phonecian lady who came to him for help with her daughter in the story as related in Matt chapter 15: (read it in Koine Greek if you can, it's juicier than the watered down versions meant for Christian congregations in the KJV..)

Her plea for help was met with a sneer:

QUOTE "The Son of Man ws sent only to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel...and anyway, since when it is right to take the Bread of the Children (i.e. of the Kingdom) and throw it away on THE DOGS under the table?"

The idea of exterminating and genociding non-Jews (the Kittim) is found in the War Scroll from the Dead Sea Corpus from around BC 20 see: 1QM Column 5:

"And the Sons of Light shall write on their Standards as they march out to the War: The Reward of EL, the Power of EL, the Extermination of all the GOYIM of Vanity by the Followers of EL..."

There are several dozen of such statements in the Dead Sea Scroll Corpus: Do you REALLY want me to list them all for you?

Also, you have not answered MY question:

Why did you choose the Massoretic pointing of Exodus 19:6 in your quite pointless quote above?

Why do you assume that the VAV ("and") was NOT an original part of the Hebrew text when the Hebrew Underlay (VORLAGE) to the Greek Old Testament, written 1000 years earlier than the Massoretic Text, clearly places the VAV in between KINGDOM and PRIESTS ("thou shalt be unto me a KINGDOM AND PRIESTS") as does the earlier Sammaritan Pentateuch--with the two families (Judah and Levi) regarded in earlier times as quite separate entities:

This deliberate tampering with the text was accomplished by the manipulaion of hand copied texts (no photocopies back then!!) by crooked scribal copyists who were very well aware of what they were doing by favouring one text over another (which echoes Jeremiah’s lament about this class of people: behold, alas, the LYING PEN of the SCRIBES !!)

Their scribal dirty handiwork was in full conscious league with the ruling Zadokite priests who naturally benefited from such a mis-representation of these words (the so-called Saddukkim or Sadducees) who ran the Temple of YHWH and their central bank in Jerusalem on Mt Moriah and after 104 BC began calling themselves “Kings” (based on THEIR warped version this very verse) to distance themselves from the Kingdom of David which was then in exile.

The very anti-Saduccean (and very Daviddic) R. Yehoshua bar Yosef the Galilean (“Jeezuzz”) began his sword wielding armed revolt in AD 36 (for which he paid the ultimate penalty during the reign of the Divine Tiberius) on the 100th anniversary of the Invasion of the Roman General Pompey (BC 63) which was 100 years after the Macabbees took control of the Temple Cult in BC 163---in a vain attempt to Restore the Kingdom of David on earth “during the Last Days” (and kick out the Saduccean “priest-kings” and relegate the High Priest to being only, well…a High Priest) (e.g. Amos chapter 9 :

”In that Day, I shall raise again the tabernacle of David which is fallen” a phrase which was interpreted Messianically by the Dead Sea Scroll covenanters)

And yet you mindlessly quote this verse as if it came down from the sky on a platter fully pointed (i.e. with vowels) and as if there were only one version of this disputed text in antiquity.
\
I would caution you to do a little research on the texts you blindly quote in order to make your points, which are neither here nor there when you look at them closely.

Sources for your research please. NEO im doubtful that you have ever even opened up a talmud tractate much less know what talmud mean.

I second that. Sources please.

I found quotes like this Talmudfalsifications on widely known antisemitic Nazi-Sites, like the Zuendel-Sites.

Originally posted by Riwka
I second that. Sources please.

I found quotes like this Talmud falsifications on widely known antisemitic Nazi-Sites, like the Zuendel-Sites.

Surely the boot should be on the other foot? Why is there no English translation of the Talmud online? That would dispose of this question once and for all. While it is kept secret, such rumours will circulate.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Even if it were translated and put online the antisemites would say that the translation are distorted and or lying. You can't win anywhich way. There are copies of the talmud in english at your university law library.

Hello Roger:

I too would like to see an “unexpurgated” (i.e. completely unedited) version of the Babylonian Talmudic (Talmud Bavli) writings freely available on line…it sure would beat having to thumb through so many microfische (hard on the eyes, let me tell you) or have to pour over all those rank & mildewed books from the 16th and 17th centuries and all the travel involved in getting to them…

But I doubt very much whether we will see anything like a complete edition of an Un-Edited Babylonian Talmud on-line any time soon or even in our lifetimes (without the careful purging and complete re-writing of most of the anti-Goyim material for obvious reasons).

This information is just too explosive to release to the general public…especially in America where the heavilly monitored US press conceals so much of these things, but it can be found if you are as persistent as I am about these things (like some of the “doubters” on this thread) as myself was once, especially with regards to say another set of explosive material e.g. the Dead Sea Scroll corpus which I was able to study when I was an undergraduate, but I’ve certainly seen enough of the process of “hiding” material evidence with my own eyes in these matters (even in some scholarly circles which are often dictated by politics, not science) to be on the alert about such matters….

Two early printed editions of the BabTalmud that you may consult on microfische which are fairly unexpurgated in that they contain most of the anti-goyim rhetoric intact include the 1520-1522 Venice edition put out by the printer Daniel Bomberg: Microtext Section, Robarts Library, The Talmud Editions of D. Bomberg: A Comprehensive Collection of All Tractates of the Four Editions, Venice, 1520-1549: Leiden, The Netherlands: IDC, 1997 = microfische ref: mfe/BM/499/1997 in 12 vols. ref Edition Bomberg: Venice, 1520 originally printed by Israel Adelkind but also see the comparatively unedited/unexpurgated version of the Talmud Bavli put out in Amsterdam in 1645)

You will be amazed (as I was) to find these more racist sections of the Talmudic corpus in the later1578 Basle edition and almost all of the 20th century printed editions have this anti goyische material mysteriously shall we say “missing” …and other phrases have been carefully “smoothed over” to sound almost nice to the goyim, so that nothing could be used against the Rebbes in court, no doubt.

As for the others on this thread who are understandably cynical, we’ll just have to let them rot in the dark (so to speak) for I have very little time to be playing games here. There will always be people who refuse to see what is in front of their very eyes, even Herr Einstein, who spent twenty years of his life trying to prove the universe wasn’t expanding with that Lamda thingy of his, and it took almost a bulldozer to the head (shades of Rachel Corrie) to get him to see the light of the evidence that was right in front of him the whole time…much to his Shock and Awe...!

Plus ca change...!


[edit on 3-11-2005 by NEOAMADEUS]

Hey PseudoScience Guy 94:

All I can say to you is...It's a good thing to be doubtful. In fact, be VERY doubtful about what you hear and read especially about this subject which is best handled by scholars and not laypersons, sorry.

You should be MORE doubtful about the ancient contradictory texts of Jews and Christians, or as they say in San Francisco: Blessed are the Innocent, for They Know Not the Manuscript Evidence.

Like you, for example.

But unlike you, I have seen the manuscript evidence. And it aint pretty.

You can go back to your sports page now.

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
Hello Roger:

I too would like to see an “unexpurgated” (i.e. completely unedited) version of the Babylonian Talmudic (Talmud Bavli) writings freely available on line

Those who are intersted, could try Talmud Bawli or שישה סדרי תלמוד בבלי

There is nothing to hide



[edit on 3-11-2005 by Riwka]

NEO,

You say you have studied ancient manuscripts, But in every post you write you always come off like you are some kind of scholar. But I have yet to see you post a link to any kind of real research. whats the source for all of your inspiration besides mein kamf?

[edit on 3-11-2005 by intrepid]

Alright, we'll have some chilling in this thread.

Originally posted by scienceguy94
Even if it were translated and put online the antisemites would say that the translation are distorted and or lying. You can't win anywhich way.

Perhaps; but I think not. It's a rare argument against NT translations, anyhow. And it makes misrepresentation by quote-mining -- which I think some of the above quotes are -- much harder.

There are copies of the talmud in english at your university law library.

There are copies of all sorts of things in libraries everywhere. But if they aren't on the internet, what use are they to most people?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Originally posted by Riwka

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
Hello Roger:

I too would like to see an “unexpurgated” (i.e. completely unedited) version of the Babylonian Talmudic (Talmud Bavli) writings freely available on line

Those who are intersted, could try Talmud Bawli or שישה סדרי תלמוד בבלי

What are we looking at here?

There is nothing to hide

Until the Talmud is online in English, as the Fathers are, allegations to the contrary will persist.

Can someone explain to me why, when I point out this surely fairly obvious
suggestion, all the Jewish people come up with reasons why not? (That is a question, not a jeer, by the way -- it seems so b**** obvious to put it online).

All the best,

Roger Pearse

[edit on 3-11-2005 by Riwka]

Originally posted by NEOAMADEUS
Hello Roger:

Two early printed editions of the BabTalmud that you may consult on microfische which are fairly unexpurgated in that they contain most of the anti-goyim rhetoric intact include the 1520-1522 Venice edition put out by the printer Daniel Bomberg: Microtext Section, Robarts Library, The Talmud Editions of D. Bomberg: A Comprehensive Collection of All Tractates of the Four Editions, Venice, 1520-1549: Leiden, The Netherlands: IDC, 1997 = microfische ref: mfe/BM/499/1997 in 12 vols. ref Edition Bomberg: Venice, 1520 originally printed by Israel Adelkind but also see the comparatively unedited/unexpurgated version of the Talmud Bavli put out in Amsterdam in 1645)

You will be amazed (as I was) to find these more racist sections of the Talmudic corpus in the later1578 Basle edition and almost all of the 20th century printed editions have this anti goyische material mysteriously shall we say “missing” …and other phrases have been carefully “smoothed over” to sound almost nice to the goyim, so that nothing could be used against the Rebbes in court, no doubt.

Many thanks for these; but I don't know very much about the Talmud. Presumably these are all in the original language? (Aramaic?) Sadly I have no knowledge of this language. Do you?

But I approve of the references. Have you checked these out and compared them against the English translation?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Hey Science:

It's spelled KAMPF.

What kind of links would you like? Would they have to be English only, or would you be able to cope with Greek or Aramaic or Hebrew text?

Everything I have typed over the past 2 years has been mainstream scholarly findings that is readilly available both online and in University bookstores.

Why are you so incredulous? Is it because it all seems so new to you? That is the impression I get from so many persons on these threads---as if none of them ever looked at a single piece of material evidence in a scientific manner (i.e. in the cold light of day).

By the way, I repudiate the doctrines of Mein Kampf. They sound too much like the racist Xenophobic language found in the Torah and Talmud about the socalled "chosen race" and "unclean foreigners" etc.

We are living in the 21st century. Any document purporting to demonstrate a chosen people or a special race of people or a special class of people that are better than anyone else on this tiny planet is a LIE. And the Chosen People Weltanschauung (as well as the Master Race Weltanschauung) found in these documents are a BIG LIE.

There is no US v. THEM. There is ONLY US. There is only ONE race: the human race.

And anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

lets have the hebrew texts links please.

The claim that the jews are the chosen people wouldn't stoke the goyim to jealousy and hatred if the goyim felt that is was a bunch of rubbish.

So why aren't southern baptist being hated like jews if they are the ones claiming that its my way or the highway when it comes to salvation? this is the same line of thinking right?