For the Greek use of image in the Revelation:

in all cases Strong's defines:

a likeness, i.e. (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance - image.

It is from the root defined as being of the property of faintness as of a copy; to resemble - to be like.

This root is akin to "to be weak, i.e. to yield - give place"

Man.. so much to take in at once..

I've never heard of this place, never read the davinci code, or Holy Blood, or did any research into any of this. Thanks for the crash course

I never showed interest in the davinci code because I kept reading everywhere that it was false, fictional reading. But upon further reading of this thread, I see it stemmed from a very complex theory.

The issue I'm having with all of this is that I seem to be a very influential person. It's one of the reasons I tend to be quiet around ATS.. I believe everything I read until I do my own research.

But with this topic, I don't even know where to start.. it's all so intriging.

I may go out and buy the holy blood book.. do you recommend this?

But while I'm here, I have one question regarding scriptures and whatnot that's always bothered me. Why after all this time, have there been no additional scriptures? Lost scriptures, or newly created ones? Has God no need to further his teachings? That's always been a contributing factor in my belief of the bible.. why the sudden silence?

Quietsoul,

I personally believe Holy Blood, Holy Grail is prerequisite to any further study in this area.

Concerning your question of further writings. I do not even pretend to know the answer. But I do believe that 2000 years is ample warning, so maybe there isn't any need to build on what is deemed perfected in the first pass.

There are many extraneous books to the canonized bible. There is the Jewish Pseudepigrapha and the christian apocrypha.

[edit on 10-28-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Valhall
Amethyst,

And therein lies the rest of my theory. I believe the Catholic church and the protestant churchs have long been infiltrated by false teachers. Teachers who have led believers to accept things that weren't stated in the scriptures.

For instance, it doesn't say Christ didn't get married, does it? Therefore, we cannot hold a teaching that says Christ was never married as scripturally sound. But this teaching has been so embedded in christian doctrine that to even propose that a child may have been fostered from a union is taken as blasphemy.

What difference does it make to the sacrifice of Christ if he was married or had a child?

Not one stinking bit of difference. It does not change his sacrifice in the least. It does not change the Gospels in the least.

Tied to this is the false doctrine of the pretribulation rapture. You have a mass of phat, dumb and happy christians sitting out there convinced they will not be here when the false teachers arrive or when the tribulation takes place. This leaves them in a vulnerable state that when the tribulation starts, and the false secrets are revealed - they will fulfill the scripture that predicts the believers saying "He said he would come and He has not - it was all a lie!" And hence the great apostasy.

There are so many things coming together that can fulfill John's dire prediction.

I've often wondered about this myself. I attended church regularly until I was 15 ,and after that I started thinking for myself. I eventually came to the conclusion that God is everywhere and the church was just a gathering of worshippers (but I can worship anywhere I choose).
Supposedly, Jesus was the Lord God become flesh even though he is referred to as an individual (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) so he could spread the word and see for himself how his creation was progressing. So how is it that He would come to the Earth and not experience everything that makes us human ? Wouldn't He want to know(even though He knows and sees all) man's interaction with a loved one (be it a spouse or child, not just his interaction with his fellow human beings)and how we interpret that interaction before he left?

Originally posted by Valhall

There are many extraneous books to the canonized bible. There is the Jewish Pseudepigrapha and the christian apocrypha.

Have you ever read the flood legend as it is written in The Epic of Gilgamesh? There are many instances like this, where stories in the Old Testament are mirrored in much older writings. the Epic is believed to have originated 2,500 years BCE.
Similarly, the story of royal blood lines goes back to those times as well. Thats why I'm sure that we're not just looking at a mystery going back 2000 years. The line of Jesus of Nazareth goes as far back into history as it perhaps does going to our time.

Originally posted by Valhall
In other words...I don't give a rat's a** whether Christ was married and had children. Unfortunately...many many people are greatly offended by the idea and deem it heretical in nature. That fact alone supports my concerns.

[edit on 10-28-2005 by Valhall]

Your concerns are quite valid Val. As I read this and follow this topic which I have encountered you alluding to in the past, I find my own fascination with this topic already making my head spin with the possible repercussions of your theory.

So, there is the the theory to explore, that you have made a very compelling case for, as well as the "what if it is true?".

Speaking as a devout if not perfect member of the Catholic Church (btw - just for perspective, I have not spent my entire life in the church), the repercussions of this theory are probably the most alarming thing I have ever speculatated on. You are absolutely dead on in your concern.

Basically, any revelation that shatters a basic teaching of the church, a teaching that if reversed by those in authority will shake the faith and the entire foundation of all teachings, will throw a LARGE population into spiritual if not actual chaos. Those who do not believe in God, or are not devout in their faith, may come away saying "what is the big deal?". However, I really think that this population is the minority, therefore having major repercussions on the masses.

Val, if your speculations and revelations regarding all this are true, proving your theory may be the only defense when it comes to pass, in recognizing it for what it is. One would hope that if the great apostasy occurs in our lifetime, that some will have the ability to recognize it for what it is, to not get lost in it. But an event on the scale you suspect to be the apostasy, puts doubt even in my own mind on how I would fare if this came to pass. There is a major irreconcilable conflict within the Catholic church that could not be resolved if this were to occur, especially if as I think you are suggesting, it would come from the top. It is not actually the issue of whether or not Jesus married and had children, but the contradiction created by the church leaders themselves by ever acknowledging (whether true or false) that this were the case.

P.S. I am really enjoying this thread and this forum immensely!

[edit on 10/29/2005 by Relentless]

But the "great apostasy" occurs like every 100 years.

Man isn't made of mud. Christianity survived evolution though by evolving on it's own. Just one example.

But you see what I'm saying.

Originally posted by RANT
But the "great apostasy" occurs like every 100 years.

Man isn't made of mud. Christianity survived evolution though by evolving on it's own. Just one example.

But you see what I'm saying.

Actually RANT, I don't see what you're saying, care to elaborate?

My fascination with this topic lies in theorising as to what "the secret" and the apostacy could be, specifically in relation to the events as allegorically portrayed in Revelation, so forgive me if I ramble and brainstorm a bit or go in a slightly different direction to where most of you are going. There's been some great posts by some very knowledgable people regarding the history of Knights Templar, Rennes-le-Chateau, et al.

Mayet and bigprobe mentioned bloodlines, DNA and cloning. The concept of DNA being an image is interesting. If you think about it, DNA is like an image or a blueprint for our physical make-up. Could it be that the image of the Beast is a jump in our evolutionary DNA, something that will be presented as our "stepping stone to divinity", simultaneously seeming to erase the need for God and disproving his divine elevation above us? (What was that line in The Incredibles: "Saying everyone's special is another way of saying no one is.") Maybe the bloodlines of the Merovingian is in fact this advanced DNA, or the missing piece of a DNA puzzle to soon be completed. Maybe the image of the Beast is the DNA of that bloodline and worship of those who possess it? The Beast of Revelation rises out of the sea, 'sea' being a Biblical metaphor for the many races and nations of men. Could it be that the image of God, the likeness of God, is the ascension by spiritual means and through the salvation of Jesus, whereas the image of the Beast is pursuit of divinity through physical means, a counterfeit, a copy, or a deception presented as a shortcut or path to divinity. Jesus stressed that man can only reach the kingdom of heaven through Him.

But if DNA is the secret, then how could Newton be so readily converted if indeed he was made privy to it? There was no way to see, identify, or even conceive of DNA in his day. His fascination with geometry and mysticism would point to the possibility that the secret is metaphysical in nature; the same pursuits that Crowley dabbled in. Does it have to do with the geometry of the Temple of Solomon, or the Pyramids. The freemasonic fascination with geometry and numerology, and the description of it as "the craft" all seems to tie together...but how? Freemasonry also alludes to "seeking the light". What is it that they are searching for exactly?

I see the possibility of the DNA link as this

If aliens/gods whatever came down and bred with the people of the earth there could be a subtle change and difference.. Maybe it takes time for that gene to be functional, maybe its something like Cystic fibrosis and both parents must be a carrier to pass it... maybe it does behave like these sort of disease genes and so on and be regressive, like eye colours, show in some not in others, like dwarfism... the bloodline may come from a pure line of the gene way back to dot.........
it could even be DNA memory...

maybe its not an extra gene at all but raher the absence of one we normally have...like downs syndrome is a missing chromosone...

Temple of Solomon, or the Pyramids. The freemasonic fascination with geometry and numerology, and the description of it as "the craft" all seems to tie together...but how? Freemasonry also alludes to "seeking the light". What is it that they are searching for exactly?

I think it will be all of the above..irrefutable... everything will fit


[edit on 29-10-2005 by Mayet]

Well, if we follow the research that has come before us we find that things seemed to take a right angle turn when the Knights Templar "apparently" found something while excavating under the Temple Mount.

I agree that the step-wise knowledge increase in architecture is a bit hard to explain. I mean a bunch of zealous "defenders of the faith" agree to go patrol the highways into Jerusalem for the sake of protecting pilgrims to the holy sites in and around that city...and the best the record shows is they never actually did that. Instead, they spent a great deal of time underground and came out bodacious builders.

That's a bit hard to explain.

But what might harder to explain is that they apparently came back from the Holy Land with a new affinity to teachings/belief systems that really seemed in contradiction to the beliefs they had allegedly gone to Jerusalem to defend in the first place. They came back with a very strange desire to hang out over in the Languedoc which was populated with several cults that could be viewed the antithesis to the traditional christian teachings.

That's really hard to explain.

The question is - is what they K.T.'s found under the mount related to the secret of Rennes? Or are they two separate issues that became intertwined?

I went out and bought a copy of the Holy Blood, Holy Grail and read fervoriously through the first 100 pages or so. Great read.

Thanks for bringing this topic up

Want to quote Holy Blood, Holy Grail on the odd decorations Sauniere placed in the church:

A Latin inscription was incised in the porch lintel above the entrance:

TERRIBILIS EST LOCUS ISTE
(THIS PLACE IS TERRIBLE)

Immediately inside the entrance a hideous statue was erected, a gaudy representation of the demon Asmodeus - custodian of secrets, guardian of hidden treasures, and, according to ancient Judaic legend, builder of Solomon's temple. On the church walls lurid, garishly painted plaques were installed depicting the Stations of the Cross - each was characterized by some odd inconsistency, some inexplicable added detail, some flagrant or subtle deviation from accepted Scriptural account. In Station VIII, for example, there is a child swathed in a Scottish plaid. In Station XIV, which portrays Jesus' body being carried into the tomb, there is a background of dark nocturnal sky dominated by a full moon. It is almost as if Sauniere were trying to intimate something. But what? That Jesus' burial occurred after nightfall, several hours later than the Bible tells us it did? Or that the body is being carried out of the tomb, not into it?

(emphasis added)

Holy Blood, Holy Grail, pg 36.

Valhall, if I was you I would attemtp to get a hold of "Bloodline of the Holy Grail" by "Laurence Gardner", in my view it is by far the best view on this whole area of Jesus having a family.

The fact they go in depth on family history, Jewish scriptures, etc, is something most do not do correctly and I have yet to find an error with their translations. Something which most the other books do have.

I have it Odium.

Is there something in particular you want me to revisit?