On another note:

Royal's have always claimed they were put down on here by God, no matter the Religion. Roman Emperors, Egyptain Rulers and so on and so fourth. A good example is in Scotland, back in the 1400's [i do believe] that a King claimed he was from the Lost Tribe's of Israelities. [Don't have a link right now.]

I don't really know a great deal about this topic, but I'll just throw a few things out there.

A while ago I read The Templar Revelations which is a connect-the-dots job of trying to investigate the veracity of the premises presented in The DaVinci Code and Holy Blood Holy Grail, neither of which I have read. In addition to that mentioned above by other members, Templar Revelations also expands on the theory that John the Baptist was our saviour, and that Jesus was deliberately placed as a usurper and is indeed a false prophet as warned of in the Bible. I don't put any credence in this and I couldn't finish the book, but I just thought I'd put it out there as another possible deception.

In speculative religious conspiracy writings, I've read that supposedly as the end times approach, there may be "discoveries" made in various parts of the world, including perhaps under the Sphinx (where an unexplored chamber has been purported to have been revealed by depth-sounding or other methods), including the Ark of the Covenant, and including the "truth" of Jesus' life and death. These discoveries will be fakes - global deceptions, and as Val mentioned, designed to generate a mass apostacy.

I'm just rambling as I type here, but slightly related is the cited symbolical similarity between the Babylonian mother-goddess (later known as Isis) who was often depicted with child and with the symbol of the Sun-god (later Ra) above her - perhaps some sort of counterfeit of the Virgin Mary, or perhaps that the Catholic worship of Mary is a deception and they are really worshipping Isis. Combine this with the theories that the alluded "Masonic God" is Lucifer the Lughtbearer and that he will be "revealed" as our true creator or god in the end times, and you have quite a mixed and fascinating pot.

I personally believe that yes, we are beginning to see the shadows of a global deception that is about to be sprung. I don't care what bones, scrolls or DNA they "find", or what smoke and mirrors crap they try and pull. Jesus Christ is the dude, and when He returns, there'll be no doubts whatsoever. He won't need any archaeological voodoo to show who the King of Kings really is.

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.



[edit on 2005-10-28 by wecomeinpeace]

Exceptionally interesting read Valhall.

Many thanks for posting your hard work.

Looking forward to more.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace


For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.



[edit on 2005-10-28 by wecomeinpeace]

Your scriptural choice could not have been more appropriate wcip. Here is what concerns me. The false teachings that have led the masses of believers into a spiritually complacent position has set up a situation where there will be believers in which the seed could not take deep root. They are believing in some emotional occurrence without studying the word of God themselves and have built man-made doctrine to live their time out in. Their houses are built on sand.

This "secret" is something that I cannot allow myself to trivialize. I won't even be so haughty as to say "they can't get me!" because history shows me that this secret is very convincing. My personal awareness in this area is the only worldly tool I have to wield against the spiritual weapon that might be brought to bear via this secret. I have to be aware...and there are so many so unaware.

The thing that concerns me the most are the historical figures who are alleged to have possibly been made privy to this secret, and how it affected them.

Isaac Newton - During the plague Newton ran off to his family's country estate and spent three years fiddling out Calculus and biding his time. He had been a sickly kid, so when the plague broke out he felt it was in his best interest to just isolate himself. During those years he wrote many letters to his church leader (I don't remember the guy's title or name right now). These letters are some of the most devoted and beautiful writings penned by a christian believer. During these years Newton thought through such things as the creation, the flood, etc. and in these letters he wrote about the physical conditions he believed God to have used. These letters show a deep spiritual love and devotion.

Newton was allegedly made privy to this secret later in his life. Overnight he went from this devout christian man to earning the permanent title of "Father of Hermeticism". He spent the latter part of his life obsessed with cracking the code of the Pyramids and dallying in mystical teachings.

Newton was exposed to something that changed him instantly.

Saunier - shortly after finding whatever it was he is alleged to have found in the church at Rennes-le-Chateau is reported to have begun making trips to hang out with little Miss Hermeticism herself, old whats-her-mug (can't remember her name right now, will have to look it up this evening). Saunier was made privy to something that almost instantly changed him from a devoted priest to some one that made regular trips to hang with a group involved in mystical teachings - not to mention how utterly bizarre and demonic his decorating trends turned all of a sudden, or his obsession with Mary Magdalene.

These things make me view this secret with an appropriate amount of reverence. This is a non-trivial issue. Something that can effect the devout, the intelligent...something big.

It is something that can deceive the very elect.

Interesting. Are you aware of any other figures like Newton and Saunier that experienced such apparent revelations? How was Newton subjected to the knowledge?

Zip

Originally posted by Zipdot
Interesting. Are you aware of any other figures like Newton and Saunier that experienced such apparent revelations? How was Newton subjected to the knowledge?

Zip

Zip,

This weekend I will devote some time to giving you a well-researched response to this. It's been five years since I walked away from this subject, so remedial memory-charges are in order.

Originally posted by Valhall
Your scriptural choice could not have been more appropriate wcip. Here is what concerns me....
This "secret" is something that I cannot allow myself to trivialize...
Newton was exposed to something that changed him instantly...
Saunier was made privy to something that almost instantly changed him...
It is something that can deceive the very elect.

This is something that I have mused on myself many-a-time and at length, but with only wild speculation to show from it. And this goes back to what you mentioned before about certain memes that have been established, or should I say promoted over the centuries as supposedly being inseperable from and integral to faith in Jesus Christ. How many would have their faith shaken, or erased by the revelation of a "truth" which shatters those constructed foundations of their faith, but in an apparently "good" way, with promises of something greater than ever imagined by mankind?

What if the world was deceived by false evidence that we were genetically engineeered by aliens? That aliens placed the secrets to the universe in the pyramids, or sacred geometry? That there are thousands of planets out there with life on them. What if the presence of these aliens on the Earth were to be "disclosed" and shown to the world?

What if a real "Titor" showed up through a stargate and showed us the future 5000 years from now?

What if it were "shown" that Jesus was not human?

What if it were "shown" that Jesus was married to a prostitute?

What if it were "shown" that Jesus did not die on the cross?

What if it were "shown" that Aliester Crowley's majick is real, and we were taught by some "great teacher" that every person has the ability to tap into this power?

We can only guess, and I think you can guarantee that whatever it is, it will not be something we've thought of.

*intermission*

I just wanted to say right quick that I'm finding this whole discussion very enjoyable and even for those I don't agree with from a spiritual belief standpoint, you all are bringing some real valuable viewpoints into this. I'm getting way more back than I've invested.

Thank you!

Also, I just wanted to say this forum is going to be a nice pleasant change. Look - we're already 30 posts into this discussion and nobody has asked anybody to prove anything.

*valhall does the backstroke through Speculation Pond*

I'm going to go grab me a 42 ounce Speculation Slurpy before intermission ends.

Just a little more musing on "the secret", I've always found it intriguing, the double mention of image in Genesis, and Revelation, the first and last books of the Bible.

Gen 1
26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Rev 13
14. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Rev 19
20. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image.


What is this "image"? Is it literally an image or a likeness, such that we look like God,, and in the end times people will be forced to worship a statue or a picture of the Beast? Somehow I doubt it. More likely it is an allegorical reference to something which is beyond our understanding; something which may be revealed as this "secret" of the Templars/the Egyptians/the Babylonians/whatever... Is it merely coincidence that God created man and woman in his "image", and that the Beast forces all to worship its image or be put to death?

Does anybody know what Hebrew or Greek term the word "image" was translated from, and what the root meanings are?

[edit on 2005-10-28 by wecomeinpeace]

That "image of the Beast" could possibly be a hologram. We do have that technology, I think.

Jack Chick believes that the beast and the false prophet are a white pope ("regular" pope) and a black pope (Jesuit general--and the guy at the top of Freemasonry btw).

It could be that one of the two could be a King of England...such as William. It's speculated that Charles or even William would take the throne as King Arthur II, since they both have Arthur as one of their middle names. Something to do with "the once and future king." And that's where the Merovingian line comes into play.

wcip

I will research the Hebrew and Greek words used in your referenced scripture this evening when I get home.

Originally posted by Valhall
And then there is the theory that maintains the crucifixion, but says that Peter (I believe it was Peter) ferried Mary and the child off to the south of France (the Languedoc) and that Mary was idolized resulting in the Cult of the Black Madonna.

It was Joseph of Arimathea (sp?) if my memory serves correctly. I have lots of books about this subject at home, but unfortunately I'm not at home I'll try to look something up for tomorrow, this is a very interesting topic!

Originally posted by Count

It was Joseph of Arimathea (sp?) if my memory serves correctly. I have lots of books about this subject at home, but unfortunately I'm not at home I'll try to look something up for tomorrow, this is a very interesting topic!

You are correct, Sir! See, that's why I'm being hesitant to try to remember names. I have to get all my books out or my brain farts on the screen.

I'm going to gather up my "library" on this subject tonight. I'm actually excited about revisiting this.

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

What is this "image"? Is it literally an image or a likeness, such that we look like God,, and in the end times people will be forced to worship a statue or a picture of the Beast? Somehow I doubt it. More likely it is an allegorical reference to something which is beyond our understanding; something which may be revealed as this "secret" of the Templars/the Egyptians/the Babylonians/whatever...

I'm going to say... a clone. I think the human race was cloned from "God", we've now reached the point where we're able to repeat the process (making us gods in our own right) and the game is over.. almost.

I'm not sure that Saunier's secret is just the bones of Christ though, that's something we might be able to prove through DNA tests today but it would have been unprovable in his time and just another "supposed" holy relic. It's got to be something much more undeniable and faith shattering.

I have read quite extensively on this subject, mainly because the legend of renne le château intersects with my own pet obsession- the Religious Militant Orders of the Crusade era.
I.E. the Templars, Hostpitlars, Teutonic Knights Etc.
Rennes le château is a very difficult subject to study, it’s very easy to get drawn into the romance of it all and remain objective.
The Priory, in my humble opinion, is a fake. There is no proof that the Priory existed before 1956. From the information I have seen from various books and websites the Priory was founded by 2 people Plantard and Bonhomme and had, in its original form, nothing to do with Rennes le Château. Plantard himself was a very shady character, he was thrown in jail for 4 months in 1942 for setting up an order called “ Alpha Galates “ without first obtaining permission to do so by the occupying Nazis. Also he seems to have been a supporter of the Vichy regime in France but then claiming to have been working with the Resistance after the War, with Plantard Black is White and White is black, very dubious character.
But there was a small order of Monks active for a short time in the Holy land at the time of the Crusades called the Ordure du Sion. This particular order was one of many Monastic organisations active at the time operating way houses for pilgrims journeying to Jerusalem. This Order was active during the second Crusade if memory serves and is mentioned very briefly and then disappears from history. I am of the opinion that the Ordure du Sion was exactly what they appeared to be, a small group of Monks giving succour to tired pilgrims.
Sauniere himself seems to have made his fortune by selling masses, now I haven’t seen the documents that proof that his wealth came from selling masses but it wasn’t un heard of for a Catholic priest to sell masses to earn a bit of money on the side but I think it would take a hell of a lot of masses to earn enough to be able to do what he did.
So do I believe he found something when he was renovating his Church? I am inclined to believe he did. What it could have been I really don’t know, it could have been some document that gave him leverage with the Church, it could have been some information that led him to a treasure of some type, perhaps the fabled Cathar hoard, who knows.
What I do know is that the Rennes le Château area is a quite beautiful and mysterious place full of romance and history and therein lays the trap, what is real and what is myth and how do we differentiate between the two?