Ex-Engineer Charged With Selling B-2 Secrets

Originally posted by Stealth Spy

The guy is from Hawii, USA and not India.

confirmed here ...

Noshir S. Gowadia, 61, of Haiku was arrested Wednesday.

abcnews.go.com...

Yeah and this is the first time you're hearing about americans of Indian origin??

There a 3rd gen Indians living in the US who have grandparents that migrated to the US.
And since he worked with N G in 68 i'm willing to bet that he was a naturalised citizen when he was hired by N G.

C'mon man!! You don't have any parsis in Bangalore or what??

"Noshir Gowadia" has parsi written all over it and i can guarantee that he and his family WILL have ties with a country in the Indian subcontinent if not India itself..
100% guarantee..

[edit on 29-10-2005 by Daedalus3]

Originally posted by Simon666

Originally posted by JIMC5499
Judging from the amount of wing area they are going to have a hell of a time trying to make that thing fly with any kind of meaningful payload. Looks like a concept model to me. We make them of our new machines all of the time. Keeps me employed.

I thought I'd seen that pic before and it's indeed not a bomber or anything with a payload but a proposed high altitude recognaissance plane.

Myasischev M-67 LK-M to be exact. Link.

Originally posted by Rasputin13
Strange how you're overlooking all of the lives that were lost because of spies. How many people were executed because they were given up as spies by other spies? How many innocent people were murdered by dictatorships or communist regimes because they were accused of being spies? How many people have died because of disinformation and lies coming from spies? How many people have died because battle plans were given to the enemy, or technological data was passed on and used against us during war? Nothing personal against you, I just think there's a whole other side to this that you're excluding here.

- These are valid points but I do not believe I have "overlooked" them just because I didn't mention them.
Who doesn't know this stuff?
Does it really need spelling out?

There were other, more relavent, valid points worth raising first, IMO.

There has been a lot of the rather typical (and I suppose to be expected) theatrical 'foaming at the mouth' kind of outrage regarding this 'spy'.....as if the USA was now suffering an almost mortal wound that requires the guys life to be taken.

Instead of giving a completely 'rounded commentary' on the entire issue of spying I merely responded to this anger by pointing out that in fact there were times when spies on all sides spying had at times done us all a lot of good......even when there were times when (then) it appeared otherwise.

No-one here right now knows how 'serious' this leak has been; it may be information that merely confirms data already publicly available in the specialist fields but, thanks to our secretive govs is technically still a security breech.
It may be low level stuff, secret but hardly the 'keys to the kingdom'.
It may also be important stuff that in the end makes no difference to anyone at all.

I also thought it fair to point out that the story doesn't even actually have to be true at all and could be part of a wider disinformation (for a conspiracy theory site I am always taken aback at the people here who seem incapable of accepting that their gov might not always be telling a true story at all or the whole story).....

.....or that 'friendly' nations could be behind this and that all the dramatic anger about Russia, China or 'Kim' In Nth Korea could just be so much eye-wash.

What I don't think I ever did was ignore the fact that spying can have consequences that are very horrible and nasty; we just weren't talking about that, most of us are fully aware of that.

I wasn't "ignoring" anything....jeez if every topic now has to be discussed with full histories etc they're going to get very very long and go down umteen side paths as people argue the truth or otherwise of how they see matters arising!

Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
More than a few 'traitors' helped keep the 'temperature' stable and things reasonable during the cold war when it all threatened to get totally out of hand (by letting each side know the true intentions of the other....

......or by ensuring each side did not actually get - or almost as importantly was not perceived to have - a great technological advantage over the other; which would have most likely led to a greater prospect of war).

There's probably one or two 'traitors' you and yours can thank for us all still actually being around these days.
[edit on 28-10-2005 by sminkeypinkey]

Sminkeypinkey,

That was the Cold War! Things weren't blowing up, and they weren't keeping a running cound of US casualties on the evening news. We in a Real war, with real people dieing EVERY DAY!

Spying in peacetime is very different then spying during a war! In war, a spy can be your down fall!

Tim

Originally posted by ghost
That was the Cold War!

- Indeed it was, a much much more dangerous situation with far far higher implications and possibilities.

Things weren't blowing up

- They were from time to time and like now they were almost always blowing up somewhere other than in the country of the main 'players'.

they weren't keeping a running cound of US casualties on the evening news. We in a Real war, with real people dieing EVERY DAY!

- Yeah but come on ghost, think about who could actually and really 'use' this information.

What's supposed to be so scary about this?
Is it that these 'secrets' leaked at all or whom they are supposed to have been leaked to? (in which case, with a tiny number of exceptions, the 'at war' comment may be pretty redundant, hmm?)

Neither Iran, Syria (whom the USA is not at war with.....and who do not have an aero-industrial infrastructure sufficient to make much use of any such - fairly old - information anyway), Al Quada or anyone else the USA is supposedly currently at war with are going to be coming at the USA with a B2 copy, hmmm?

Spying in peacetime is very different then spying during a war!

- I suppose some of this this boils down to whether you believe this to be much of a 'proper' war.

Like I said Al Quada isn't about to start attacking the US with B2's copied or otherwise anytime soon.

I would be far more inclined to believe this more in line with industrial espionage (a competitor in the defence industry looking at what solutions the US has come up with).

If it's true it could be Russia, China....or France or the UK.....but again it would be a question of looking at what solutions the US had come up with.
I doubt any of those countries had no clue at all and now suddenly have 'the key' to IR stealth.

In war, a spy can be your down fall!

- That can be true, but only as a vague generality; the US isn't going to 'fall' over this.

.....and so what?

One of the old cold war methods the Soviets apparantly used with some dim-witted, racist or racist sympathetic, people in the west was to make the 'spy' unwittingly believe they were actually helping the South Africans, not the Russians.
(I suppose todays' American equivelent would be Israel)

You see, only the people involved know the full story - and even the guy concerned was probably duped.
IMO many many spy stories never quite turn out to be the way they are initially presented.

I'd be far more inclined to wait and see what the real story is (and that's only if we are ever told) and bear in mind the actual 'value' of what we are told has bee leaked to whom and in what context -
before working myself up into such a lather and making such heated melodramatic declarations.

That's all I'm saying.

[edit on 31-10-2005 by sminkeypinkey]