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How to control People

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posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 12:29 AM
1) I never post to any thread until I've read every other post in it. Most times, somebody else has already made my point.

2) I have no doubt that you posted your honest opinions.

3) I have no doubt that you think I made your point for you, also. I've read enough of your posts to understand that quite clearly. Your opinion seems to be that you need to interject Christianity into every conversation at some point. I thought you had shown remarkable constraint for quite a while, there. I was not surprised that your constraint broke down at some point - only that it took a while to get there.

Understand that I'm not anti-Christian in any way. Christianity does not concern me except the observance of the phenomena that it permeates every conversation, sooner or later. Then, when anyone points that out, it becomes some sort of persecution - "Why do you hate Christians?!" Since I don't have time to hate, I'm merely making the observation and you present yourself as a classic example. I'm not saying you should stop. Just saying how predictable it is.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 12:42 AM
I've decided to be a lurking ,posting-virgin, no here it is, my very first post gentle with me

for starters:

>You have voted orangetom1999 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

:-) Orangetopm I have enjoyed reading your posts above all, but do want to thank everyone on this thread for the articulate food for thought you all present.

I am not nearly as articulate or eloquent, but I am thankful to find I am not alone in my ways of perceiving much the world around me. I find I agree with most of the perspectives here...

oh including your latest suzy-when you say Al actually makes your point instead-I'd have to totally agree as was my first thought when I read that.

No offense Al, it just seemed you were the pot and suzy the kettle there

Ok, enough for me, I know I contributed nothing of value, but I had to get my feet wet.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 12:46 AM
Al-I agree that it's a good idea to read all a posters post on a thread before replying...

maybe I missed something along the lines in your posts, but so far, though I'm (Nor anyone else it seems) accussing you of anything like being anti-Christian, it seems your posts always seem to preach your religeon of least here.

That is why I agreed with suzy saying you make her point, but I appreciate your perspective just the same please understand, and do respect you as a person of thought

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 01:39 AM
Part of the problem, with the government controlling the masses, & the people letting them, is the government talks in double-speak, triple-speak, & reverse-speak.

Mixing their words up on purpose, & using words that are like Jethro on the Beverly Hillbillies calls "a $10 word". Another words, a word that is meant to sound like the user is more intelligent, & sometimes are a lot more intelligent than the people they're talking down to. They use wording that is meant to lull the masses into a false sense of security, & mis-direct what's really going on.

The reason I know this? Because I speak double-speak, triple-speak, & reverse-speak, & I hear everything that they're saying. I was taught how to do this from age 6, & I cringe anytime I hear a politician speak.

Just after 9/11, you should have heard Bush's speech how I heard it. He essentially said, we will be training our nations militaries, & Police forces to deal with "terrorists actions"on American soil. I'm not going to go over his whole speech, as I don't remember it all & don't have time to go into it all, but that bit, along with some of the other parts of it, made the hairs on the back on My neck stand on end the whole time he was speaking. Why, you might ask? Because, first off, our military is not allowed to act on American soil, unless in a national crisis, or national disaster, second, our Police forces are supposed to be dealing with domestic disputes, traffic tickets, chasing down regular bad guys.

Now, normally this sounds like a good thing....Ooohh...a Police Officer will arrest terrorists, that's a good thing. NOT!!! The reason I say this, is what is the definition of a terrorist? It's a vague & wide ranged definition, & anyone in our society can fit that description. Anyone from a computer hacker, to an Iraqi student who's Muslim , to a Postal Employee who's "gone Postal" on his co-workers can fit this "profile".

Anyone who disagrees with the Government can fit into that, anyone like Me & you posting on this website, can fit that description, because we don't agree with them, & speak out about it, & tell other people what we see.

Anyone with a gun, when they begin come knocking on our doors to take them away, who isn't willing to comply, will fit that description. Anyone who throws a temper tantrum in a Super Market when the cashier isn't ringing us up right, will fit that description.

Basically said, anyone who doesn't just go with the flow, will be deemed a terrorist, & guess what....they will disapear, no trial, no lawyer, no one phone call, because a terrorist isn't allowed those rights. Guess what else...terrorists will be placed into internment camps, given little to no rights, & eventually those camps will begin overflowing with people so they will have to start mass executions.

Does any of this sound familiar? It should, because the Nazi SS Stormtroopers did the same damn thing following Adolf Hitler's orders to the Jews & other minorities.

Think about it, you just might be the first one through those doors. Will you go quietly into the gas chambers made to look like showers & stone ovens to burn you alive, or up to the guillotine to chop off your head? I know I won't.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 02:14 AM
Think2much, may others treat you with the same gentle honesty you showed in your virgin post.

It's good to find others who notice control systems in all areas of life and human endeavour and dare to share. Finding you're not alone in your observations is a handy aid to regaining some control as we are social creatures who more often will choose the "accepted" way ahead of the "right" way if the "right" way threatens us with social isolation.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 08:41 AM

Think about it, you just might be the first one through those doors. Will you go quietly into the gas chambers made to look like showers & stone ovens to burn you alive, or up to the guillotine to chop off your head? I know I won't.

so...what will you do then?

not being a smartass I promise...just wondering what is the answer to the problem-in your opinion-besides being "aware" of it...

Suzy-thanks. It's funny though, I don't really feel the rejection from the mainstream as ultimately then dooming me to a life of isolation... in contrast feel MORE isolated when "fitting in" with the mainstream as I am being accepted, and even for who I am (as I don't put on a front and am honest in who I am protrayed to be)

...however, I know it isn't an entirely acurrate persona portrayed either, as I do hold back much of my true and real and actual thoughts and feelings...for fear of what? I'm not sure...but it's not isolation...maybe just the base fear of rejection itself...

I am sure I often feel isolated anyway or I wouldn't be up at night when the rest of the world sleeps wondering why in my happy little life do I feel so tired of the banal mediocrity of mindless know?

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 11:01 AM
Think2much, yes I think I get your point. A 'hermit' withdraws from social contact to be free to benefit society but a social outcast has no choise but to be alone. As many cultures understood and practiced, you can literally kill someone with the pain of social isolation even if food and shelter arn't withheld and hermits could be a geat source of comfort and wisdom to people who found it difficult to talk to their own.

There was a large part of my life when the house was always full and the phone never stopped ringing but lately I've chosen to limit my social contact, BECAUSE I love people and also integrity. I got tired of always having to find ways of expressing my honest opinions and deeply felt beliefs without hurting the feeling of people who saw my views as judgements.

For example, try explaining to a parent who's put their 6 w.o. child in day care, that even/especially teenagers, who only 'grunt' at anyone but their peers, need the emotional and mental benefit of coming home to a loved one that is there to be grunted at should they feel the need. The brain chemistry at that age and up to 25 in some, is unfixed, volatile and little hurts can grow into monster problems if not delt with by as simple a method as seeing/smelling one person you know loves you.
One on one, this sort of conversation can 'hurt' the new parent and so cause them to "fight" the information, yet reading it in a public, general forum isn't so much a personal threat/judgement and so they are more likely to concider the issue and even adopt it as their own idea if it makes sence to them.

As to the sleep patterns of late night posters on ATS, long term early childhood hospitalisation ruined mine for life but I'm happy it's given me the oppotunity to function at times of necessity others can't and 'chat' with people like you.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 02:52 PM
I am aware that you are not anti Christian. To me you are Humanist. No problem.

Christians judge everything they see and know by the Word in which they Believe. Everything.
If they do not do this what standard..what yardstick do they substitute for their Beliefs??? Furthermore does this have a historical precident and what is the precident. did historically this substituted precident turn out??? This substitution of standards.
As to control...I will remind you that many things outside of the religion of which we mostly speak in this thread are of control. Often subtle control to many. Often not thought about in this method or light until someone else tells others about what it is.
I will submit to you Al..what is already known by many here ..unless their ability to judge by thier Christian Light is removed from them by things like ..the exclusionary rule.....that politics is most definitely a religion of control..complete with very devout and zealous followers and often diametrically opposed to what Christians Believe. This is known information and becoming more and more known by boards like this one. Many people are begining to think outside the box which often passes for excellence nowdays. They are asking questions of each other on this topic line.
These are the two systems...from ancient opposition to each other. Little has changed....
Once what standard do we substitute ..for our Christian beleif??? What is the historical track record of this substitution???


posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 03:01 PM
you posted:

"As to the sleep patterns of late night posters on ATS, long term early childhood hospitalisation ruined mine for life but I'm happy it's given me the oppotunity to function at times of necessity others can't and 'chat' with people like you."

You have me chuckling to myself here. I got off work at 7am this morning. Going back in at 11pm tonight. Night Creature here. Holiday weekend here in the States. Lots of supervisors want the four days off. I am taking the place of some of them so they can have off for these holidays. It is also very quiet on weekends like this. Just the way I like it at work. Except for my duties I am able to catch up on some reading and even my beloved crosswords. I love the nights.

Well said Suzy.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 03:07 PM
Very intresting name you use there.

I to have those concerns about the direction nations go under emergencys and emergency powers. Historically,long term, this has often not bode well for the people of these nations. The income tax is a prime example...instituted nation wide as a wartime measure but kept in place when the war was over.
I am not so worried about it under this administration but those to follow. Often these things are just time bombs per se ..and sit until the time needed when most are looking elsewhere.

Thanks for your post,

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 03:45 PM

Originally posted by crusader
Absolutely nothing wrong with your thinking man! Anyway, this welfare scheme is real deep... skin deep as well. I am of an african american background, traveled the world over, and it's like, #, africa, and some parts of the world, black people, some of them, like they way they are! conditioned, especially in some of the western african states and the subsaharan states, to accept AID as a normal part of the economic system, anyway, instead of getting them back to their feet and becoming selfsufficent, because if they do become selfsufficent they may not have any need of you again, it's cheaper to keep them in a debt cycle. You see, what is happening? Take for example the credit card fiasco,? the amount of people who are caught up with paying for everything with their credit cards, when one maxes out, they go and get another, damn the average american has about 3-4 cards in their name, and they seem to be all max out at some time, and the intrest rates on these lil monsters are staggering.. Did the bible mention about the sin of usury>? or is it the Islamic Quaran?


Yes this is correct. spot on with both points.
consumer debt culture is facinating, there always seems to be a new way to recycle more debt back around through the sytem again.

Also guys i just wanted to pop my head in and say something i have concerns over, a facinating development i have begun to notice that takes on many forms.
Advertisments are beginning to appear in the style of 'news' articles. Like newspapers stories that are actualy advertising a product. Some are actual news stories that are appearing doubtless for a nice sum through internet news outlets, they promote certain products and are published by advertising agencies.
Also the concept of blurring reality with fiction, computer games and movies branching out into the real world, with real word internet sites that look genuine but are actualy part of marketing campaigns or part of the clues for computer games.

The barriers between reality and fantasy, between entertainment and seriousness are being blurred. Im not often suprised but i didnt predict this and it has suprised me at least.
The matrix is coming it seems....

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 05:54 PM
Oh yes Adam J, we are being "sold at", at every oppotunity. The method I dislike the most is that of live, word of mouth, advertizing. People have long been employed to tell others about some product or service they are greatly pleased with, not just at bars on promotion nights but EVERYWHERE from bus stops to your cousins wedding. People are learning not to believe actors on T.V. but still fall for the advice and recommendations of 'nice' people they meet and speak with. These 'nice' people can also be your friends and relatives who can't reveal their occupation because of severe conditions of their contract of employment. I'm so glad I'm a 'needs based' consumer and my needs are simple and basic.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 06:40 PM

Originally posted by orangetom1999
Christians judge everything they see and know by the Word in which they Believe. Everything.
If they do not do this what standard..what yardstick do they substitute for their Beliefs??? Furthermore does this have a historical precident and what is the precident. did historically this substituted precident turn out??? This substitution of standards.
These are the two systems...from ancient opposition to each other. Little has changed....
Once what standard do we substitute ..for our Christian beleif??? What is the historical track record of this substitution???

Orangetom - I'm not sure exactly what you're asking me to comment upon.

For the "standards" part: I think we are all boundedly rational and make all our decisions on our own experiences. In fact, I don't think it's possible to do otherwise. So, maybe you're wondering why I might object to your use of Christianity as part of your decision making? If that's the question, then, I respond that I don't. I don't have any objection to your making your personal decisions with that frame of reference. I have some objections to your judging others with that perspective but, that's up to you.

I don't think I gave you a very good answer - not trying to hedge or dodge but, I fear I don't understand exactly what you'd like for me to respond to. If you are interested, ask me again, please.

The "historical" part: I really don't know what this is in reference to...I have a guess but, there's no since in me making statements that you might find objectionable if I'm going off in a different direction than you intended.

I really did not plan to respond to any of the previous posts because I did not want to hijack this thread into a discussion of religion beyond the "control issue" that was on the table at the time. I thought that's what I was referring to in the original post. You see, part of my frame of reference is politics and I know a lot of political tricks. One of those "time-honored" tricks is controlling the discussion and that's all I was commenting upon. I think I raised some hackles and, while that's all within the boundaries, a total hijack of this thread would be rude and outside the boundaries.

We can take this to another thread if you want to pursue it, further. I think you're quite a reasonable person and we can probably have a good exchange.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 07:12 PM
Humm, Politics is the business of control, control is 'managed' by limiting information, this thread is about informing people of how they are controled, Al, you questioned the right of sharing a 'religious' perspective on the topic of the thread, the Christians didn't respond with flames blowing the thread off topic and having it die or be closed but brought it back to the issue of control methods and goals. Was the intent of your post based on a politicical purpose for restricting information?

I'm just musing, not accussing but my experience in politics taught me how far into seemingly unimportant areas politictions will go to control the common knowledge people base their votes on. Again, I am not accussing and you need not feel you have to respond with a denial or defence, I'm just adding another perspective on the topic of control for readers to concider.

Thanks Al, for being a part of this thread and expanding the issues discussed.

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 07:19 PM
no problem with your post or the thought that you are hedging or not. Also about hijacking this thread. It happens in ATS from time to time and it is not a concern least with me.

As to Christians making decisions in the manner they do...knowlegable Christians with whom I am familiar make decisions based both on experience and guidance from the Word. By this they are able to judge many things in this world as to worthy of thier time within the framework of that judgement. Christians should always judge by this standard such that they are not mixing leven with unleven or new wine with olde. That which they find objectionable or not within this framework..they are to seperate themselves from. Otherwise they will mix leven with unleven or new wine with olde.

Yes ..I am aware that your background is in politics. I am also very well aware that politics is very ...very judgemental ..especially when votes are at stake. This too is control...for which we speak in this thread.
This is why I am often given to asking what the religious alignment is in politics. Only the most aware would catch on to the concept.
Politics is a very intresting history in this nation as well as others. I have just finished a book on a politician I admire alot. Harry Truman. He comes across as a rather crusty ...quick spoken man ..not given to alot of political flattery or such..pretty plain spoken. We could use more like him. Especially leaders who can put reporters in their place quickly. I recall when a visiting prime minister of Israel did exactly that ..I was so shocked I did a double take while listening to the news. He sent the reporter scurrying backwards with his tail between his a puppy dog. THis mans name was Menachem Begin. He had Brass I'll give him that. He shot right from the hip.
The reporter was dumb enough to ask Menachem Begin the wrong question. We need people like this in politics today...not pollsters.
I am often given to wonder ...if Menachem Begin was like that with a reporter here in America..what must he have been like with them back home in Israel or other countrys.??

No problems with your posts Al..Join in we need different opinions here from which to learn ..especially in the arena of control.


posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 07:29 PM
Hmm, my view here, the reason why most of the masses, are controlled by the puppets, is because, they do not think: to sum hitler's own theory on how he felt about the masses. They do not research and they are very closeminded people. if you are open mind, and realise truth from error, you will not be easily influenced or coerce to do something against your will. Mind control is one of the easiest form of slavery that exsits today. People will have diffrent belief systems, as long, as they remain closeminded, they will have a diffrent worldview, as opposed to others. the reason the Muslims in the middle east are fighting back, in Iraq and all around the world, is not because they are wicked, and are fundamentalists, it because they will not be controlled, they will not submit. why should they? hy should anyone submit ?


posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:26 PM
I just read through the entire thread. Quite a good threat!
The thing that bothers me is that even if you suceed in breaking out of being a slave, do you just become a master? I think society is structured so that the 'elite' are pressured by their peer groups into manipulating the masses.

On the relgious here are some thoughts. The problem I see with religous reference, and such is that it often revolves around meaningless undefined(undefinable?) terms. I suppose the occult masters understand the true meaning, but they are able to condition responses to certain phrases upon people. However, despite hearing the phrase, many people don't understand it. I think both religious and political terms fall victim to this.

I think all people worship something---albeit, some might not know what they worship. For example the ancient Greeks and Romans had many. People who drink too much are worshipping the 'god' of alchohol; People who are obssesed by love are worshipping Cupid, etc. In the modern sense, I think it would equally correct to say there is a 'god' of television. Now, worshipping the 'god' of science might include human experimentation. Further, many of the atomic scientists worshipped this 'god'.

Monotheism provides a different view. Monotheism state there is only one god, or rather only 'one' true god, or something like that. All the other gods were gods of some means of control. So, what is god the god of? What do you worship?

posted on Nov, 26 2005 @ 10:46 PM

I've chosen to limit my social contact, BECAUSE I love people and also integrity. I got tired of always having to find ways of expressing my honest opinions and deeply felt beliefs without hurting the feeling of people who saw my views as judgements.

Ah yes!
It is very hard to see people you care about buying into things (behaviours, popular opinions, consumerism actions) which you feel are detrimental to them, their families, society...but when you try to explain this issues, you either offend, or scare them....either way a gap is created in your relationship

I have recently been corresponding with a friend I've come to know a bit more this past year just through the net- he being in another country....we had actually met in the states in the 80's in the "punk" music scene as he was a musician in a "punk" band for which I was a part of his audience-part of the music "scene" of the day in that city...

it's taken me almost a year of contact with him, to discuss my true feelings on that scene as a whole...a scene I left shortly after meeting him and he continued in for some...20 years....making several albums/cd'd and touring...

of course he never got rich...he never got paid...but that was the punk way...I finally got the nerve to say "bullsh*t!" to him

I was a great proponent of what I refuse to call punk music but have always called "hardcore" and "underground" mucic because I took exception to the lable "punk" a derogatory term embraced by ignorant punks as a badge of honor...

I had liked the non-conformist message/and style of alternative music. Yes, even on a gut levell I liked the profanity at times, as base as it was sometimes "f*ck" was a gret way to just express something with great emphasis for me . Yes, I know what George Washington said about vulgar language, but nonetheless as a young person, vulgar language expressed the deeper anger and resentment and discontent I felt than trying to more articulately express it politely-lol

Anyway, he's been rather receptive to my opnion on the punk scene, though I don't know he entirely agrees,...for one would mean being both part of the problem and a victim as well...

I've tried to explain that the whole scene was controlled and subdued by introducing the propaganda that "true punks" in contrast to posuers were all about music and and non-conforming...but really they were all buying into conformist crap of the worst sort!

They all conformed to ideas handed to them as to what it was to be "punk" and this was: to dress punk (even at great costs at times-leather jackets, expensive boots, tattoos, piercings alternative jewelry, etc) and to act punk (be anti-authoritarian, take jobs that would not make you conform to the enemy-society. (thus you wouldn't put it behind you for a decent paying job)

...and above all...listen to punk music...local music and music of actual punk bands recorded on indie it, live for it...but uh...never pay too much for it...WTF?

Hell no, punk musicians weren't in it for the money, they were in it for the statement, so they should never expect their "fans" to pay much...if they expected that they'd lose all credibility as punks! Theyd be seen as selloputs.

If local establishments wanted to draw in the punk crowds for their audience/consumers...they knew they could only charge $4 at the door for the show or they'd be then that's what they'd charge...of course then they can't pay the band sh*t either.

My view was that these ideas is what controlled and repressed us (me being a "punk" at the time...) I began to rebell against this idea...I had once shaved my head to 1/2 inch all around so as to displaya dyed an anarchy symbol in balck on the dyed red hair...

but I realized my statement was not individualistic in this scene, and decided to stand out and grow my hair out...and I left the leather jacket at home and began to simply wear jeans-clean ones- and nicer shirts when not wearing a band T...but I did wear band T-shirts because it SUPPORTED the bands...thus funded the scene as well...

I also got a regular job...yep, let someone else tell me what to do and how to do it, and was in the service of the very public I had some derision for...

My credibility as a "punk" was questioned in the scene...even to the point of thretened viloence at this point, whereas when I looked punk (and mean I guess) my status was never questioned...but now it was since I looked so "conformist" now...

however it was I who was helping the guys in local bands pay the rent, set up weekend gigs and buying amps for their guitars...all because I had a job and the money to do it...and trying to preach that it was ludicrous to think punks who could buy jackets, jewelry and tatooes, couldn't pay more than $4 to see a band...

I got exasperated with the ignorant idea that being punk was being about partying, listening to music, and being non-conformistly (is that a word? LOL) independant...

... when all I saw was a herd of people all falling prey to a propaganda that would keep them controlled, impoverished, and never respected as people of thought or relay a social message beyond the fact they refused to conform least outside of their own subculture.

I don't know, like I said I'm not very articulate or eloquent...maybe that's why no one understood me then,...well not no's not like I didn't know "punks" who were people of thought...but still they to break this cycle of to explain to the scene/kids they'd been decieived from the begining...

See, they were quite happy with the way things were...felt comfortable with it, knew the rules and could live by them...and telling them they were part of the problem as much as the "establishment " they hated and rejected, even living victims of that very establishment by being "punk" instead of overcoming it as true non-conformists as they thought they were...was no easy task...

...and not many of the minoirty who saw it and understood wanted to take on the masses...the punk masses that is, and stand up to them... but all around we saw the entire scene selling out to an idea of "punk" handed to them to control was sickening

Like I was telling my friend..."it's OK to get paid!" it doesn't make you a "sell out" and he argued, no, it's a great theory but in reality, no one is going to pay....FEAR CONTROLS

The bands were afraid they'd not get paid, the kids were afraid they weren't truly "punk" enough, or they'd not be seen as punk enough by their peers (Since when does a NON-CONFORMIST give a rats ass (can I say "ass?" here) about PEERS?!?!?!?!?!" WTF!!?????????

But if they didn't go by the rules...look, dress, act punk...and never sell out to the establishment...*never pay much to see punk bands much or they've sold out* (SAYS WHO?) *and so have you if you pay too're a social sell-out*.... and thay all played by these rules...well who the F*ck made those rules...HUH?!?!?!?!

Oh it so disillusioned me, and I'd have fought it like the caged wild bird...but I abandoned them to their doom and here is is 20 years later and my friend had a good time, a good , though impoverished, life and he is just starting to see my point of view...yes, maybe by the time he was 10 years into it it was too hard to change things...they'd become complacent as a band-were not trying to make a stand or push a message anyway-just playing music and having fun...

but to me it could have been more...should have been more...even though bands do get paid better these days...the control is still there...the peer-pressure is still there-the propaganda is still there...though I've gotten so old how do I know? I just know I never saw it change much on the inside looking around or the outside looking back in....but I seem to see more retrosectively anyway...

sorry, I know this turned into quite a rant...and my message or point if there was one probably lost...

but I'm glad I finally felt I could speak up to this guy and really be me...and not feel I offended him or was rejected by him...but fear...fear controls...fear isolates...I often feel isolated...I'm trying to understand what are my fears?...and are they legitimate...or handed to me to control me, you know? In a nutshell, that is my life question...what are my fears...and from whence do they come?

posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 01:02 AM
Adam J, thanks of reminding me of my time supporting local young bands with everything from transport to food. I too, used to offend their "friends" by supporting all the gigs and also insisting on paying the cover charges. I also upset the local industry 'controlers' by pointing out facts like those deemed to succeed, having the towns only sound mixer do his best, while playing around and totally stuffing up the sound of others. That little revolution led to the town getting a few more mixers but cost me my usual dancing place up front to stand up the back and keep an eye on the mixer. One of the most talented bunch of damn nice blokes, dissolved when they didn't heed my warnings of a "Yoko" in their midst, who so destroyed them after 'going through them' all and setting them against each other, that they moved to separate states and cities.

Anyway, as to your fear, it sounds abit like you fear being made a lier of, which indicates you possess a core of integrity, which is under constant threat in a world that will,"tell any lie to sell anything and everything is always for sale". Hang in there and protect your integrity, it's a good and rare thing.

[edit on 27-11-2005 by suzy ryan]

posted on Nov, 27 2005 @ 01:55 AM
Hmmmm suzy in reading your post I'm inclined to believe perhaps it was intended to be addressed to me, not adam J...

You did what you could to make a difference and that can always be applauded though often goes unappreciated, doesn't it? And no one in a band wants to her their lay-I mean love-is a Yoko, huh? They wont hear it, but time tells tradgic tales...

I too know many people who would bitch at me when I enforced cover charges and they'd always see me show up at different venues and by pass lines and paying altogether...what they didn't know is I'd just leant the bass player $150 for an amp that day, opened a joint bank account with the band to help them financially, but with some acountability of where the money went, , etc... or otherwise had already supported the band or the establishment

Anyway, I'm not sure what my fears are...but I appreciate your vote of confidence in my disire to be a person of integrity...I do fear being made a liar, but perhaps more so a hyppocrit...I don't know

...but mind control...when you believe a certain way, or behave a certain way and one day wake up and go "Gads, WTH?!" because you realize you'd been buying into bullsh*t and don't even know how or why you ever did...and realize you've even be more than a victim but a willing participant (out of ignorance) of the problem! WWAAAAA! Now, I hate it when that happens...I am then embarrassed and ashamed....

but why? it doesn't seem to anyone around me that they understand or care I'd been part of a problem they don't even recognize...nonetheless I feel I helped perpetuate their ignorance by my own actions prior to my understanding...

hmmm...sleeping pills taking effect...must try to sleep...I've been a nightowl since my parents split as a kid and my mother's new workaholic and social shedule had me alone too often or being raised by me 11 year old sister...I'd stay up waiting for her to come home, being kept company by Johhny Carson and Chevy Chase...

oh and ps...intersting bit about it doesn't matter if a kid is just going to vent or gripe but that they have someone they love/feel loved by to see/SMELL (even more intersting) to gripe at/to...I concur

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