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If Jesus survived, would Christianity?

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posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 10:19 PM
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Hey guys and gals and all of you Jesus Christ is our LORD and our savior, amen people, what if Jesus didnt die on the cross? What if it was proven to you that he survived and lived to be 120 years old in India? What would happen to your religion? Please take this as a hypothetical question, say this really happened would your religion survive? Or is there not enough of it besides Jesus saves and your reward of heaven for your belief in your sins being forgiven, would your religion just crumble?

If you cannot answer this question, without just stating that it cannot be true, if you cannot bring yourself to look at this hypothetical question, then your religion is built on a house of cards!




posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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No. Christianity would not exist today if this happened. If Christ did not die on the cross, Christianity is bunk. Why do you ask?



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
No. Christianity would not exist today if this happened. If Christ did not die on the cross, Christianity is bunk. Why do you ask?


That is the saddest answer I could imagine. This makes your religion empty, all the lives destroyed, all the people killed, all the books and information burned and destroyed. All there is to it then is the death of a great prophetic mesiah? Death on a cross, nothing else? I am truely sad for all the loss...



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 11:01 PM
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No, not his death, His resurrection. If that didn't happen, He's a liar and a fraud, and Christianity is a lie. Thankfully, all evidence points to the resurrection.



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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The point is that it is empty. Even if you point to his resurection. It means there is no meaning to life, to live one life, some people, a baby that dies for instance doesnt even get to do that. Anyway to live one lifetime, to get one shot at this great classroom called life and some are so ignorant that they learn neary zip, and for the only reason for our being to worship a God? To make a diety the only reason for living? Its empty.

To experience it all though, to keep earning until you have lived every life learned every experience, this has meaning. Christians believed in reincarnation until 511 C.E. or as you would phrase it 511 A.D. when a man, not God deamed that there is not enough control over the sheep if this philosophy were followed so he said no to reincarnation.

Your religion that hinges on this idea that the only way to your reward is through Jesus is empty and lifeless. Jesus would be mortified, the mesiah that opened the third eye chakra, the prince of peace would not like the limits you have placed on yourselves.



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 11:34 PM
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So...the fellah who said He was God would be mortified if we took him at his word? That's...an interesting theory...Yet you present no evidence...You just insult my religion and say yours has all the answers. If I wasn't in the midst of day 2 of a nic fit (again
) I would probably be cracking up right now. Instead, I see you as an ignorant hypocrite who wants to turn Jesus Christ to be his own religion's messiah, instead of what Christ proclaimed. Then again, the nic withdrawl and craving a cigarette may have helped me misunderstand your point...Prove me wrong?



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 12:28 AM
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While I understand what you're trying to ask, I consider it a pointless question.

Jesus' sole purpose in coming here was to die on the cross for our sins--and THAT had been determined in Eternity Past.

I know some like to portray Jesus as some kind of "victim" and it's not the case at all. As He pointed out, He could have had legions of angels come to save Him.

But were it not for Jesus, we'd all be headed for hell no matter what.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 12:41 AM
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The sad thing is that you do not understand enought ot know that it is a glorious thing that Christ died for us. He exemplified dying for others, giving all in a selfless manner.

You think it is sad that if it didn't happenthen our lives were spent in meaningless beliefs? LOL! And, what of your beliefs, and the beliefs of the dying world?

Don't worry about us. We are quite fine. The only thingthat saddens us is that you are sad for no good reason.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 12:46 AM
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And the whole thing can be summoned up in John 3:16 (KJV). "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."




posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 02:41 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
Thankfully, all evidence points to the resurrection.

And what evidence would this be? .... The bible - biased, misinterpreted, mistranslated and extremely circumstantial. Your evidence would not stand up in court and you know it.


So...the fellah who said He was God would be mortified if we took him at his word?

Jesus never said he was God!

Originally posted by amethyst
While I understand what you're trying to ask, I consider it a pointless question.

Why feel the need to answer then??


Jesus' sole purpose in coming here was to die on the cross for our sins--and THAT had been determined in Eternity Past.

Determined by whom???



But were it not for Jesus, we'd all be headed for hell no matter what.

You can prove this?


originally posted by Thomas Crowne
The only thingthat saddens us is that you are sad for no good reason.


I find you lot sad. Berating the initial poster because of their belief system
(even though it is a blatant attack on christianity). Not very christian of you is it ?



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 11:30 AM
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I really do not mean to attack Christianity, I used to be church consultant and have been to over a thousand churches. The reason I am sad is that so many died for nothing, so much knowledge burned and destroyed for nothing.

That is what makes me sad.

Jesus, his message was NOT his dying of crucifixtion. It was one of love and tolerance, it was one of not taking advantage of our fellow man. If these deeds he tried to teach us were concentrated on as much as his being the savior of your soul the world would have been a better place. There used to be a saying by christian religius zealots. When they were hunting witches, they would come to a town where there was a rumor of a witch living there. If they could not figure out who the witch was they would kill everyone, burn the town stating "kill them all and let God sort them out".

As it is we have world leaders, corporate leaders that feel they do not have to concentrate on there deeds as much as they need to, because they will be saved by Jesus.

Most of the world does not believe in Jesus.

Does this mean that most of the world, a whole lot of good people are going to hell? How about that... well that does make me sad that you have bought that negative sales job.

I personally love Jesus Christ, and if he never died for everyones sins would not change my point of veiw about my spirituality. My spirituality is strong and does not hinge on one single facet that would make it fragile.

I really am sorry if this seems an attack on you religion, but that was not my fault. It is the fault of those in the past that wanted control, and twisted the great word of Jesus.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
I really am sorry if this seems an attack on you religion, but that was not my fault. It is the fault of those in the past that wanted control, and twisted the great word of Jesus.



So someone twisted the great word of Jesus, but you have unlocked the key to know which things He said and which He didn't? How do we know that John 14:6 was a lie:


Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


yet know that Matthew 22:38-40 was true:


38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."



From Shuh:
Jesus never said he was God!


Didn't he? As is indicated in Leviticus and Isaiah, only God can forgive sins. Yet, in Luke 5:20, Jesus forgave someone their sins. The Pharisees freaked out in the next verse, because Jesus just made a claim of divinity.

Moreover, the title "Son of Man" came directly from Daniel 4:13, which was well known to the Hebrews at the time. It was a term of divinity. So every time Christ called Himself the Son of Man, he was calling Himself God.

Two instances where Jesus called Himself God. There are others. And you who know the scripture so well have the audacity to say to Thomas Crowne, "Not very christian of you is it ?"



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 03:05 PM
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Nowhere does Jesus say we have to tolerate sin. In fact, what did he say to the woman caught in adultery? "Go and SIN NO MORE."

When Jesus was hanging around the prostitutes, publicans, and the like, He told the hecklers that they who are sick need a physician--not those who are well. The people He was hanging around with needed salvation.

The Bible (KJV) IS the Word of God. Just because people have tried to tamper with it does not negate it. One has to ask oneself why people try to tamper with it to begin with. How many versions of the Koran do you think are available, for example?

Jesus is God. Most definitely. Look at John 1:1-14. John 1:1 states, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (emphasis mine)

Verse 14 says, And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I Peter 1:18-20--Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by LoneGunMan
There used to be a saying by christian religius zealots. When they were hunting witches, they would come to a town where there was a rumor of a witch living there. If they could not figure out who the witch was they would kill everyone, burn the town stating "kill them all and let God sort them out".


Woo, somehow missed that! Now what was your source for that information?



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 09:32 PM
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one problem with withchunts is that the people performing the witchhunts are commiting a sin against he holy spirit, and it would be better that they were never born.

There are over 300 prophesies in the Old testement fortelling of Jesus. Even the passover feast jews celebrate points to the sacrifice of a "Lamb without blemish"

If Jesus were to live, you might as well throw out the Bible and start a new one that is no better then Hiduisum



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by Jehosephat
If Jesus were to live, you might as well throw out the Bible and start a new one that is no better then Hiduisum


What does Hinduism have anything to do with this??

Now here's the paradox:

The only evidence that most Christians have of Jesus dying on the cross is the bible. If Jesus did not die on the cross, then as the posters here have agreed the bible is incorrect.

So how do you know Jesus died on the cross?

You'd say the bible; But if Jesus did not die on the cross, the bible is incorrect.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 10:29 AM
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While the subject of witches has come up, heres a small question.
Why don't Christians hunt and kill witches anymore for does the bible not say somewhere "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"( Exodus 22.18). So if christians are not hunting witches they are going against the word of God.
Tut tut no heaven for you.

Nice paradox Akashic!
just waiting for the answer that answers nothing or changes the subject.



G



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 10:51 AM
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Originally posted by junglejake
No, not his death, His resurrection. If that didn't happen, He's a liar and a fraud, and Christianity is a lie. Thankfully, all evidence points to the resurrection.


What evidence?!?!? There is no proof except some words in a book. My perception would not change. You said he would be a liar but you would be wrong. Jesus did not write one book in the bible. If it was found that he lived in India he would not be the liar and fraud it would be the people who wrote the gospels 50 something odd years after his death. Everything stated about what he stood for is unchangeable. It the message that will get you into the kingdom of heaven not the man.

Edit: Jungle lake quoteing bible verses just shows that you have no argument. i can quote verses where Jesus states that he is not God. for instance.

-Mark 10:18
So Jesus said to him, why do you call me good? No one is good but One, that is God.

Hummm.. Looks like he is separating him self from the father

- John 8:28

Then Jesus said to them, when you lift up the son of man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My father taught Me, I speak these things.

Same thing

John 5:37
And the father himself, who sent me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, no seen his form.

Same

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, lord, lord have we not prophesied in your name, cast out demons in your name, and done many wonders in Your name23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

This is a strong one. It basically says don't be a hypocrite. you can say your a christian but your action speak louder than words.

John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of him who sent me
hummm... i wonder who sent him.....GOD

John 7:16

Jesus answered them and said, this doctrine is not mine, but his who sent me

Again Not his doctrine but GOD's doctrine

John 13:16
Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who sent greater than he who sent him. 17 If you know theses things, blesses are you if you do them

Servant, Master you get the drift

John 14:28
You have heard me say to you, I am going away and coming back to you If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, I am going to the Father, For My Father is Greater than I

Ok you see where I’m going with this. To answer the question first stated in this post. NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. Christ's message was universal and regardless of how he died the message is still the same. Organized Christianity might suffer a blow but true Christians would not be effected.


[edit on 27-10-2005 by DaTruth]



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 11:28 AM
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Originally posted by DaTruth
Ok you see where I’m going with this. To answer the question first stated in this post. NOTHING WOULD CHANGE. Christ's message was universal and regardless of how he died the message is still the same. Organized Christianity might suffer a blow but true Christians would not be effected.


The point I was hoping someone that claimed themselves a Christian would have made. The fact that none of them could get past the Jesus died to save my sorry butt scenario, just reinforces my feeling that hey have all been mislead. It is your fruits, it is what you learn from life, not the belief in a certain diety that gets you to heaven.

Why is it that none of you can come to this conclusion? Why always Jesus saves?

Its like Jesus saves all others use credit. lol



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 02:50 PM
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As someone stated before it is pointless arguing over faith because that is just what it is, a faith. People follow things blindly, present company included. The only thing I have faith in is the Higher Power and the message of its prophets. I have given up trying to understand dogma and the ways of this world. When it comes down to it we could all be living a lie. A true wise man realizes that he knows nothing. Meditate on that one for a while.




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