Bringing home troops is American priority

Originally posted by deltaboy

Originally posted by Frosty
Osama himself has said on many occasions that one of the biggest reasons he has sentiments against the US is because the US chooses to align itself with Israel. We might not be in Iraq if it weren't for 9/11 and even if we were without 9/11 chances are the insurgency would not be as big.

maybe he can explain the attacks on Shiites, Hindus, Buddists, and other infidels he views. i guess they must be align with Israel as well.

Unless they are American I don't see the point in emphasizing any of this.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I dont think Vietnam is really a fair comparison to Iraq. In that war they were fighting a massive army with Super power support rather then a insurgency. The support of a super power can make a big difference just ask the Mujahideen

For many people of a certain age or political spectrum it often seems, Vietnam is like Elvis: it’s everywhere

Not only that but the rules of engagement was a lot stricter. Not only were we fighting the North Vietnamese Regular Army, but we were also fighting the Viet Cong guerillas.

Jungle warfare was a whole new warfare for us at the time, same with the insurgency now.

the Vietnam war was fought against an enemy (at the time) that had a reason to fight, not just because it wanted too like these insurgents do that do not even care about Iraq but just want to kill innocent civilians and Westerners.

So in essence Shadow is correct and I know Vietnam is every where especially in my household. God bless'em

Osama himself has said on many occasions that one of the biggest reasons he has sentiments against the US is because the US chooses to align itself with Israel.

So we should allow what terrorists want dictate our actions and foreign policy? You give in to one demand, you open pandoras box. Official Policy: We don't negotiate with terrorists.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Osama himself has said on many occasions that one of the biggest reasons he has sentiments against the US is because the US chooses to align itself with Israel.

So we should allow what terrorists want dictate our actions and foreign policy? You give in to one demand, you open pandoras box. Official Policy: We don't negotiate with terrorists.

Exactly, so me personally i think we should stay there, as we dont know whats going to happen in that region, and i dont think they would take home 140,000 troops, just to send them out again, i think they have "bigger" plans to weigh up.

As a nation of course we want them back.

Originally posted by WestPoint23

Osama himself has said on many occasions that one of the biggest reasons he has sentiments against the US is because the US chooses to align itself with Israel.

So we should allow what terrorists want dictate our actions and foreign policy? You give in to one demand, you open pandoras box. Official Policy: We don't negotiate with terrorists.

Bull(explicit), I never wanted to get involved with Israel, when did the US government ask me? LOL! Why are we involved with Israel, what have they done for us? And the US has negotiated with terrorist and is negotiating with terrorist--ISRAEL!. Know your history. I also never said that we should allow terrorist to dictate our policy and action.

It is not a matter of 'allowing terrorist to dictate our actions and foreign policy' BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE! Maybe you never heard of the Patriot ACT or Department of Homeland Security? THere are many others such as tightened security at airports and a war that we are still with in Iraq!. And it has definitely changed our foreign policy too.

THis mess has been propogated by poor decisions on the US government's part. By your logic I just need to live with that, support every decision my government has made and will make, and never give in to who the government calls a terrorist.

[edit on 27-10-2005 by Frosty]

I can see at least a few good things have come from this.

People no longer see 'Regime Change' as a simple thing, and they now realize that 'as long as it takes' means far longer than it should take.

Occupation is not liberation, ending occupation is.

The Iraqis want to be liberated so instead of digging in at long term bases we should be packing up, and preparing to get out.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
I can see at least a few good things have come from this.

People no longer see 'Regime Change' as a simple thing, and they now realize that 'as long as it takes' means far longer than it should take.

Occupation is not liberation, ending occupation is.

The Iraqis want to be liberated so instead of digging in at long term bases we should be packing up, and preparing to get out.

How do you get several thousand troops out while still keeping the peace?
Hand it over to a currupt police force?
Get the old iraqi army back in and declare marshall law?

Some good points made on this thread.
I saw on telly the family of the last guy to die, immediently i was struck by the fact he had two sons there, who will obviously miss out on there dad, thats the tradegy.
And all the civilian deaths too.

[edit on 27-10-2005 by Denied]

Originally posted by Denied
Some good points made on this thread.
I saw on telly the family of the last guy to die, immediently i was struck by the fact he had two sons there, who will obviously miss out on there dad, thats the tradegy.
And all the civilian deaths too.

[edit on 27-10-2005 by Denied]

Your titles a bit misleading, unless the revolution was obtained via clubs?

I just mean.....we had regime change..yes, and maybe that had to be done through a barrel of a gun.
But democracy no.....

Originally posted by Frosty

maybe he can explain the attacks on Shiites, Hindus, Buddists, and other infidels he views. i guess they must be align with Israel as well.

Unless they are American I don't see the point in emphasizing any of this.

unless they are American? are u trying to avoid the question and having to explain the situation as to y Osama is committing attacks on non Americans as well? u are trying to keep the logical reason dat Osama is attackin America because of troops in Saudi Arabia and the rest of the ME but u cant explain the logical reason as to attacks like in other parts of the world dat is not related to America's interests. u are trying to make it like Osama has the right to attack America because of connection to Israel but then u cant defend Osama's attacks on other countries or religions. dats pretty much wat i can dink of from u.

[edit on 27-10-2005 by deltaboy]

How do you get several thousand troops out while still keeping the peace?

You announce that you will be leaving in X Amount of days, and that you will not be attacking cities anymore.

Then the Insurgency will end, and people will no longer be afraid to join the police and Army.

Then the troops can get out in planes, trains, auotomobiles, trucks, ships, or even by walking.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

How do you get several thousand troops out while still keeping the peace?

You announce that you will be leaving in X Amount of days, and that you will not be attacking cities anymore.

Then the Insurgency will end, and people will no longer be afraid to join the police and Army.

Then the troops can get out in planes, trains, auotomobiles, trucks, ships, or even by walking.

well, thats all fine and dandy, but do you really believe the radical islamic extremists will let it go at that? they want an islamic state such as the taliban's afganistan, and will not rest until it happens. fine, pull our troops out, at least the blood shed will no longer be ours, right? of course, we'll get the blame for not finishing the job....again. and another generation of americans will most likely be getting their blood spilt over there in another decade or so. just MHO.

Originally posted by ArchAngel

You announce that you will be leaving in X Amount of days, and that you will not be attacking cities anymore.

Then the Insurgency will end, and people will no longer be afraid to join the police and Army.

Then the troops can get out in planes, trains, auotomobiles, trucks, ships, or even by walking.

WOW! You got this whole thing figured out. good job Arch but unfortunately it does not go that way.

The Insurgency WILL not end and I have no idea why a lot of you do not realize that. Can't be blindness because there are a lot of intelligent people around here.

Iraqi's are NOT afraid to join their police force or their Military, if that was the case then the Insurgents would not be targeting recruitment centers. but I guess you forgot all about those bombings huh?

Short answer is, we can not pull out because if we do there will be a huge civil war then all you people that complain about the Coalition "Occupying" Iraq did not finish the job.

Again, it is a lose lose situation in some people's eyes with the Coalition Forces. Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
A Rasmussen poll indicates that a majority of the American people see bringing the troops home is more important than insuring that Iraq is a free nation.

You break it, you buy it. The US can't leave iraq after ripping apart the forces that were holding it together.

You announce that you will be leaving[...]Then the Insurgency will end

[edit on 27-10-2005 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by BlackBeard Damned if they do and damned if they don't.

I think you hit the nail on the head blackbeard. I mean who really thought we would go over there and end terrorism completely, no one I hope but no matter when we leave it will seem like we didn't finish the job because bush called it a war on terror. Personally I think we are creating more terror the longer we are there. I think no matter when we leave it will be back to saddam's ways all over again and it will all be piontless.....just watch

[edit on 27-10-2005 by Kramthenothing]

Originally posted by ArchAngel
I can see at least a few good things have come from this.

People no longer see 'Regime Change' as a simple thing, and they now realize that 'as long as it takes' means far longer than it should take.

Occupation is not liberation, ending occupation is.

The Iraqis want to be liberated so instead of digging in at long term bases we should be packing up, and preparing to get out.

I agree, at the start of this war Bush/Blair and all the spokepeople for the coalition of the willing played up this idea of spreading freedom and democracy. Even if this is true and there are no other motives for western involvement in Iraq, the idea of some 21st century 'pax Romana' demands far more than going in, liberating and bathing in glory, it simply doesn't and hasn't worked like that. It demands huge sacrifices on the part of the countries involved, stretches military and economic resources and overall needs the collective will to persevere. The initial invasion may have been planned well but beyond that no one seems to have given much thought as to what to do after the initial victory.

Originally posted by ArchAngel
You announce that you will be leaving in X Amount of days, and that you will not be attacking cities anymore.

Then the Insurgency will end, and people will no longer be afraid to join the police and Army.

Then the troops can get out in planes, trains, auotomobiles, trucks, ships, or even by walking.

You think that as soon as we leave it wil be fine?
No, the groups wil remain, the "armies" will still fight.
These groups have power, they have influence, they will not "give it" easily.

You people seem to forget what everyone wants.

What has been the demands of all the kidnappers?

What is the demand of all insurgents?

They all want us to get out of Iraq.

the Insurgency can't end as long as their is the perception that our stay is permenant.

Between running out of Iraq today, and staying forever there are many other things that can happen.

The fact that we are digging into bases in Iraq, and Bush shows no signs of any chance we may get out, drives the insurgency.

Resistance to us will not ever end, but our occupation will.

Whether we leave of our own will, or are thrown out on our butts depends on how long we stay.

At some point we will tire, and go home.

The Iraqis are already home....

Originally posted by ArchAngel
You people seem to forget what everyone wants.

What has been the demands of all the kidnappers?

What is the demand of all insurgents?

They all want us to get out of Iraq.

I am not forgetting what everyone wants, its simply the fact that if we leave it will go into anarchy.

the Insurgency can't end as long as their is the perception that our stay is permenant.

Who says that they will end?

Between running out of Iraq today, and staying forever there are many other things that can happen.

Yeah like the country going into civil war.

The fact that we are digging into bases in Iraq, and Bush shows no signs of any chance we may get out, drives the insurgency.

This is what drives the insurgency?
No, there are many diffrent "drivers" for the insurgency.

Resistance to us will not ever end, but our occupation will.

Yeah it will end, the "insurgency" wont.