Republicans Still Suck, page 2
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reply posted on 30-11-2005 @ 06:32 AM by ghost
Originally posted by ghost
BTW, I found a picture of George W. Bush going to a meeting:



Hey George, the hood look good on you!



I would like to apoligize for this photo and the comment about Bush! While I can't stand George W. Bush, and despise EVERYTHING he stand for, to equate Bush with Emperor Palpatine is unfair. As a friend pointed out to me yesterday Emperor Palpatine was Genocidal. Bush is Not a nice person, but to say he's no better then a genocidal mad man is truly an insualt he doesn't deserve. Sorry if I offened anyone.

Tim


reply posted on 3-12-2005 @ 01:51 PM by Bob LaoTse
Of course the Republicans suck-- they're politicians, and are therefore mendacious, power-hungry, sociopathic scum.

The economic boom of the late 90s had NOTHING to do with Bill Clinton, and everything to do with a booming stock market. That boom was destined to collapse, since it was based largely on grossly inflated values for tech stocks-- stocks for companies that often not only had never turned a profit, but could never be expected to turn a profit. The boom collapsed NOT because of Bush's election, but because reality set in and investors stopped buying worthless stocks. The timing of both the onset of the illusion that these stocks were valuable and the realization that they in fact were not was purely coincidental.

Tax cuts really do stimulate the economy, and that really has been proven repeatedly. They don't do so immediately, so shallow and short-sighted people often don't make the connection when they eventually do.

Spending cuts are not inherently bad. As a matter of fact, they're much needed in this country. The problem is that the grossly overpaid bureaucrats who are the cause of most of the excessive spending stay on after the cuts, and cut services largely in a mostly successful effort to convince shallow people that spending cuts are bad.

"In a democracy, each party devotes its chief energies to proving that the other party is unfit to rule, and both commonly succeed, and are right." -Mencken



reply posted on 3-12-2005 @ 02:36 PM by RANT
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
The economic boom of the late 90s had NOTHING to do with Bill Clinton, and everything to do with a booming stock market.


Moreso to do with reaping the rewards of new technological economies created from scratch over years of investment via federal subsidy also known as taxes!

Tax cuts really do stimulate the economy, and that really has been proven repeatedly.


Hogwash. That's been proven nowhere by anyone except in the most shallow and self serving of definitions of vertical wealth creation, at least when it comes to Bush's version of merely rewarding the rewarded. It stimulates wealth for a select few which already have wealth which has never been proven to trickle down or voodoo anything into existence of value to the system and country and people that created the super wealthy in the first place. The multi-millionaire you make richer today is not going to reinvest in America that invested in him (if he even bothers to do his patriotic duty of paying taxes anymore). He's going to outsource, and offshore and the Republicans will do all they can to reward him for doing so.

They don't do so immediately, so shallow and short-sighted people often don't make the connection when they eventually do.


I can see how Bush's outrageous tax cuts for the top 1% help the Chinese and Central American economies, but not ours. Perhaps you're the shallow, short sighted one for thinking Paris Hilton is going to open a manufacturing facility in your town because Bush gives her more of a break from her duty to reinvest in the infrastruture that made her grandfather rich, but I live in reality.

Spending cuts are not inherently bad. As a matter of fact, they're much needed in this country.


From surplus to a 8 trillion dollar deficit in 6 short years. I'd say so. And a guillotine to get rid of the borrow and spend Republicans that can't govern anything from a checkbook to a hurricane relief effort, but think they should be involved in everything from Terri Schiavo's marriage to the courts to your child's school grading teachers. Amendment minded big government borrow and spend Republicans out to destroy every advance of the last century for their perverse interpretation of reality via their manipulation of the simple minded is the problem and I welcome anyone to this thread that actually has a thought in their head to prove otherwise.

The Republican Party is a worthless criminal enterprise undeserving of air.

[edit on 3-12-2005 by RANT]


reply posted on 3-12-2005 @ 03:01 PM by Bob LaoTse
Originally posted by RANT
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
The economic boom of the late 90s had NOTHING to do with Bill Clinton, and everything to do with a booming stock market.


Moreso to do with reaping the rewards of new technological economies created from scratch over years of investment via federal subsidy also known as taxes!


Taxes? Subsidies? Since internet startups have never been subsidized, I assume you must mean Arpanet-- the government funded skeleton over which the body of the internet as we know it was built BY PRIVATE ENTERPRISE. Subsidies are in no way responsible for the internet boom, except insofar as the government funded the earliest networks, which networks languished, largely unused, until private enterprise discovered them and made them into what the internet is today. If it weren't for private enterprise, the 'net as we know it simply would not exist.

Tax cuts really do stimulate the economy, and that really has been proven repeatedly.


Hogwash. That's been proven nowhere by anyone except in the most shallow and self serving of definitions of vertical wealth creation. It stimulates wealth for a select few which already have wealth which has never been proven to trickle down or voodoo anything into existence...


I got a tax cut. I'm not a multi-millionaire. I spent the extra money. I stimulated the economy. That's why tax cuts work.

Spending cuts are not inherently bad. As a matter of fact, they're much needed in this country.


From surplus to a 8 trillion dollar deficit in 6 short years. I'd say so.


Then we agree. Good. I might point out though that you've fallen victim here to a common bit of propaganda. We NEVER had a "surplus," we only had a projected surplus, which projection was based largely on the assumption that the grossly over-inflated stock market would never adjust back to reality, which was an assumption that no rational person believed, even then.

And a guillotine to get rid of the borrow and spend Republicans that can't govern anything from a checkbook to a hurricane relief effort, but think they should be involved in everything from Terri Schiavo's marriage to the courts to your child's school grading teachers. Amendment minded big government borrow and spend Republicans out to destroy every advance of the last century for their perverse interpretation of reality via their manipulation of the simple minded is the problem and I welcome anyone to this thread that actually has a thought in their head to prove otherwise.

The Republican Party is a worthless criminal enterprise undeserving of air.


If you open your mind up just enough to substitute "politicians" for "republicans" then you'll be right. As it stands, you're only half-right.


reply posted on 3-12-2005 @ 03:26 PM by RANT
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Taxes? Subsidies? Since internet startups have never been subsidized, I assume you must mean Arpanet-- the government funded skeleton over which the body of the internet as we know it was built BY PRIVATE ENTERPRISE.


I was referencing one vocal success story in particular known as Bill Gates that has openly spoken about his own story in support of his progressive politics. How he didn't invent the Internet, he used it to create wealth for himself. And if you do go back to the beginning (of anything) it does come from government investment in things like public education, federal grants and military research.

I got a tax cut. I'm not a multi-millionaire. I spent the extra money. I stimulated the economy. That's why tax cuts work.


I got one too. It didn't cover one COBRA payment, but I got one. Part of my support for a progressive tax rate includes lower taxes for working people, the most deserving of cuts, and raising it to solvent levels for the affluent, that owe the most to the system that supports them.

It's much better for the economy for 279 million Americans to buy a TV (or send a kid to college actually) than 1 million to buy a boat. My point was actually there's tax cuts (which few will argue with and are sometimes needed), then there's just dismantling society and destroying the middle class (which is the overt Republican goal).

But using the COBRA example, or gas prices, or healthcare, or descreasing work hours, or a shift from a manufacturing economy to a service one, or any of the other Republican assisted efforts to punish working people, a modest tax cut for the middle class is actually a tax increase in a very real way because more of your money goes to pharmcos, big oil and a dozen other places aligned with the conservative "cause" to make 99% of America a third world country on par with their 'free trade' fantasy of enslaving the planet and 1% rulers of the universe.


If you open your mind up just enough to substitute "politicians" for "republicans" then you'll be right. As it stands, you're only half-right.



I have serious issues with the Democratic Party as well, but I do recognize good independent people in it, some of which happen to be public servants. The difference I see is there are no good Republicans as relates to the party or public service. None. And since they share a brain I have no problem condeming the entire collective. Just speaking the truth.

[edit on 3-12-2005 by RANT]


reply posted on 19-12-2005 @ 03:27 AM by TheWalkingFox
Originally posted by Bob LaoTse
Of course the Republicans suck-- they're politicians, and are therefore mendacious, power-hungry, sociopathic scum.

The economic boom of the late 90s had NOTHING to do with Bill Clinton, and everything to do with a booming stock market. That boom was destined to collapse, since it was based largely on grossly inflated values for tech stocks-- stocks for companies that often not only had never turned a profit, but could never be expected to turn a profit. The boom collapsed NOT because of Bush's election, but because reality set in and investors stopped buying worthless stocks. The timing of both the onset of the illusion that these stocks were valuable and the realization that they in fact were not was purely coincidental.

Tax cuts really do stimulate the economy, and that really has been proven repeatedly. They don't do so immediately, so shallow and short-sighted people often don't make the connection when they eventually do.

Spending cuts are not inherently bad. As a matter of fact, they're much needed in this country. The problem is that the grossly overpaid bureaucrats who are the cause of most of the excessive spending stay on after the cuts, and cut services largely in a mostly successful effort to convince shallow people that spending cuts are bad.

"In a democracy, each party devotes its chief energies to proving that the other party is unfit to rule, and both commonly succeed, and are right." -Mencken


What's got me curious is how you figure that stock market ups and town are incidental with their timing, but economic ups and downs have a real impct from tax cuts. Do tax cuts stimulate the economy? "Eventually", you say - Where is the proof that this is from the tax cuts, rather than an incident of timing, like the aforementioned stock market?


reply posted on 19-12-2005 @ 09:19 PM by Bob LaoTse
Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

What's got me curious is how you figure that stock market ups and town are incidental with their timing, but economic ups and downs have a real impct from tax cuts. Do tax cuts stimulate the economy? "Eventually", you say - Where is the proof that this is from the tax cuts, rather than an incident of timing, like the aforementioned stock market?


There's no conflict there-- you've simply misrepresented my statements.

The TIMING of the rise and fall of the stock market was coincidental, but the CAUSE of its rise and fall was a specific set of circumstances-- primarily the relatively sudden popularity of the internet. This created not only a whole new class of businesses and stocks for those businesses, but also provided average people with an opportunity to trade stocks. This led to a rush to buy tech stocks, which stocks were often ultimately worthless, since they represented companies that didn't even turn profits, but which stocks were purchased anyway by people who simply didn't know any better. In the short-term, those stocks responded to supply and demand-- the demand for them was high, so the price rose. But soon enough it became apparent that the demand had driven the price up to a level beyond the actual value of the stock, or of the companies those stocks represented. At that point, the prices collapsed.

It wasn't just an "incident of timing." It was a specific series of events, the timing of which was merely coincidental.


Tax cuts stimulate the economy because they leave more disposable income in the hands of people. Those people either spend the additional money, increasing business income, or they invest the money, which gives the banks more money to loan out, which generally serves to lower interest rates as competition for loans increases, which benefits both businesses with ongoing credit lines and new start-ups.

Quite simply, tax cuts put more money in the hands of individuals, and those individuals put it back into the economy, and the economy axiomatically grows when more people put more money into it.


Now-- before anyone leaps in, wailing and gnashing their teeth-- this is not meant as a defense of Bush's tax cuts, which ARE directed almost exclusively to the richest of Americans. Trickle down actually does work to some tiny degree, but mostly what tax cuts to the wealthiest do is to give them more money to squirrel away. They are less likely to redistribute their money than anyone else is, so tax cuts for the rich really do little good. They DO do more for the economy than most leftists are willing to admit, but they still do far less than tax cuts for the middle class would do. But of course, the middle class doesn't own any politicians, so they don't get tax cuts.
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