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US Congressmen Warn Palestine: Don't Hold Fair Elections

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posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 03:19 PM
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Here you have it, democracy at work, down the barrel of the American gun


Dozens of Congressmen and women have signed a letter warning the Palestinian Authority (PA) that it risks damaging relations with the United States if it allows Hamas terrorists to run in PA legislative elections scheduled in January.

The letter, signed by 49 legislators, stated that "requirements for groups to disarm or disavow racist ideologies must be made prior to participating in an election." Among the signatories were the chairman of the Democratic caucus, New Jersey Congressman Robert Menendez, and Ohio Congresswoman Deborah Pryce, who chairs the Republican Conference.

www.israelnn.com...


The other half of democracy is the right to run for office.

If outside forces can forbid citizens to run for office it is no better than the NAZI occupied Vichy French government.

BTW: America excluded many from the recent elections in Iraq.




posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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Whats the problem here? If i even need to explain why its stupid to allow terroists to run for office then this forum has taken a turn for the worst...


/begins to wonder why i removed this guy from my ignor list

[edit on 22-10-2005 by C0le]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 03:54 PM
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Originally posted by C0le
Whats the problem here? If i even need to explain why its stupid to allow terroists to run for office then this forum has taken a turn for the worst...


Who derermines who is a terrorist, or not?

Hamas is a Charity, a political party, and more.

That some of their members also attack Israel is to be expected, and does not make the leaders terrorists.

When you consider that Israel kills almost four times as many Palestinians the same argument could be made against their elections.

Our attempt to interfere in their elections is despotic.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:15 PM
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Hamas is Terrorist organization, They target civilians, They do not recognize Israel as a sovereign state, And if they get power, any chance of peace is gone and you know it.

Is this what you want? realy is it? do you hate jews and want them to be killed by the savages? you sure seem to..

[edit on 22-10-2005 by C0le]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by C0le
Hamas is Terrorist organization, They target civilians,


www.fas.org...

Israel targets civilians too.

The Palestinians have existed under illegal, hostile, foreign occupation for two generations.

They have a right to fight for liberty.

I do not agree with all of their tactics, but I can easily understand the strength of their motivation, and the legitimacy of their resistance to occupation.


They do not recognize Israel as a sovereign state,


Few Palestinians, and Arabs do, and for good reason.

They never agreed to allow it, and the land was theirs before Israel was imposed on them by force.


And if they get power, any chance of peace is gone and you know it.


You, and I know nothing of the future.

You can't have democracy without allowing all of the political leaders a chance to run.

The result is illegitimate, and far more likely to result in chaos.


Is this what you want? realy is it? do you hate jews and want them to be killed by the savages? you sure seem to..


Between driving the Jews into the sea, and driving the Palestinians across the Jordan there are many other Alternatives.

I support Israeli withdrawl, not destruction, and Equal rights for the Christians.

Anything less is Against God.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by ArchAngel]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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Your right, the Jews have no right to be there, Just like we dont have the right to be in the states, I will be packing my bags now the Native Americans want there land back.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by C0le
Your right, the Jews have no right to be there, Just like we dont have the right to be in the states, I will be packing my bags now the Native Americans want there land back.


I said nothing of the sort.

I support Israel behind the green line, but not in Palestine.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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its still a valid comparrison, you can't complain about Israel having land that "doesn't" belong to them yet not recognize that many countries exist on land or hold land that doesn't belong to them.

Also are you christian? if so then your awe inspiring in your double standards, sicne I'm aware that it says in your holy book that Buddha promised the Jews Israel, if you don't support that Israel is on sujch land then I geuss you aren't a christian then.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
its still a valid comparrison, you can't complain about Israel having land that "doesn't" belong to them yet not recognize that many countries exist on land or hold land that doesn't belong to them.


Name one where the people are not allowed to become citizens.


Also are you christian? if so then your awe inspiring in your double standards, sicne I'm aware that it says in your holy book that Buddha promised the Jews Israel, if you don't support that Israel is on sujch land then I geuss you aren't a christian then.


It was promised to the decedants of Abraham, but then the Hebrews accepted the covenant.

Israel violated it, so God took Israel away from them.

God promised nothing to the Ashkenazi, and Talmudists that run Israel today.

The Messiah has not yet come so the birthright cannot yet be reclaimed.

You are quoting from Zionist Christian theology which I find to be anti-Christian.

There are more than a million Israeli, and Palestinians Christians that are all denied equal rights by Israel.

Those that support the Jews over the Christians in the holy land are not true Christians.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 06:27 PM
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I'm not Christian either, the state is the only thing that is important. Other then that Israel is a "Jewish Nation" it is only natural that the law will favor Jews. Also, I'm sure they're Christian and Muslim Palistinians on the Knesset.

Next, what does being a Talmudist have to do with them being any less Jewish!? Jews are Jews regardless of their sect, or else you could make an arguement about how Mormons or Protestants aren't Christians.

"God" or Buddha or Allah whatever didn't take Israel from the Jews the Romans did for purely political reasons.

Also, remember that Hammas and many other terrorists organizations wish the destruction of Israel, letting them run as politicians means as mentioned before it'ld end the hope for peace.

We (The UN) gave the Jews a homeland so that they could end persecution and prevent the Halocost from ever happening again.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by The Middle Kingdom]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 06:34 PM
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Humm… I guess we are not demotic in the US since we don't allow gangs like MS-13 to run for office. I wonder why we do that…???



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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I dont understand this reference.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel

...Hamas is a Charity, a political party, and more....



Sounds like an advertising campaign, get yours now...

If I made a batch of kids down the block, members of a political party, and a charity... Would it be ok for me to give them masks, AK-47's, and RPG's, and turn them loose on people they didn't like?

Apparently some people think so...
I do not.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 07:22 PM
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I suppose you would have also supported the Nazis running for office in post-war Germany? Baathists running for office in Iraq?

Give me a break. Hamas is a terrorist organization, no matter how many schools they open or meals they provide. If the leadership of Hamas did not support terrorism and did not approve of the targeting of innocent civilians by its membership, then it wouldn't happen. Plain and simple. Hamas would come out publicly against terrorism and would stop funding the purchase of weapons and explosives. They haven't, they don't, and they never will.

I'm not saying that the Israeli government is filled with saints, or that the occupation is completely just and legal. But that cannot be used as validation for the actions of Hamas. What is right is right and what is wrong is wrong. Hamas can decide to be a legitimate political party or a terrorist organization, but not both. Sorry, but you can't have your cake and eat it too in this case, pal.

The more I read your posts, the more I want to lump you into the same group I have my good friend Souljah in!



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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By letting Hamas have a say in the politics you can drag them along a legitimate path, the way Sinn Fein did for the IRA. As well as setting an example of proper deomocracy.

Hamas is a powerful force in the region and by excluding them from politics you ask them to carry on atacking rather than try and thrash out a compromise at the negotiating table.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by C0le
Your right, the Jews have no right to be there, Just like we dont have the right to be in the states, I will be packing my bags now the Native Americans want there land back.


BUT - Do not forget: .....The Palestinians are NOT the native population of Israel.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by Riwka
BUT - Do not forget: .....The Palestinians are NOT the native population of Israel.


The Palestinians don't recognize Israel and the Jews don't recognize Palestinians.

How will there ever be a solution?

Tell me who the the native population is Riwka.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel

...Hamas is a Charity, a political party, and more....



No. That is wrong.

  • The official charter of Hamas is openly genocidal, and even refers to the anti-Semitic forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion

    "[The Jews] took control of the world media ... With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the globe ... They stood behind the French Revolution, [and] the Communist Revolution". (Article 22)

    "They stood behind World War I, ... they were behind World War 2, through which they made huge financial gains". (Article 22)

    "The Zionist scheme] has been laid out in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion." (Article 32)


    The August 1988 Charter declared that all Palestine (which includes Israel and all settlemets in the Westbank) is Islamic trust land, can never be surrendered to non-Muslims and is an integral part of Muslim world.

  • HAMAS is against any Middle East peace process:

    "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble, Hamas Charter [excerpts])

    "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad. All initiatives, proposals, and international conferences are a waste of time and vain endeavors"
    (Article 13).

  • Hamas openly calls for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews.

    Hamas is committed to continuing jihad against "the Jews" until Allah's victory is implemented. The land of Palestine, it affirms, must be cleansed from their impurity and viciousness. Muslims are obligated by order of the Prophet to fight and kill the Jews wherever they find them. This call to genocide is justified by a hadith which concludes article 7 of the charter:

    The Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
    (Article 7)





    [edit on 24-10-2005 by Riwka]



  • posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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    Originally posted by AceOfBase

    The Palestinians don't recognize Israel and the Jews don't recognize Palestinians.


    Of course do we recognise the Palestinians.
    PM Sharon’s Speech at the United Nations Assembly - September 9, 2005:


    [...]

    The right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel does not mean
    disregarding the rights of others in the land.

    The Palestinians will always be our neighbors.

    We respect them, and have no aspirations to rule over them.

    They are also entitled to freedom and to a national, sovereign existence in a state of their own


    [...]


    *******************************

    In the case of the West Bank (and Gaza) no internationally recognized sovereign control previously existed.

    Describing The Territories as "Palestinian" or as "stolen land" may serve the political agenda of one side in the dispute, but represents a total denial of Israel's fundamental rights.

    Under UN Res 242, Israel is only expected to withdraw "from territories" to "secure and recognized boundaries" and not from "the territories" or "all the territories" captured in the Six-Day War.

    Taken together with UN Res. 338, it becomes clear that only negotiations would determine which portion of these territories would eventually become "Israeli territories" or territories to be retained by Israel's Arab counterpart.



    [edit on 24-10-2005 by Riwka]



    posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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    Originally posted by Uncle Joe
    By letting Hamas have a say in the politics you can drag them along a legitimate path, the way Sinn Fein did for the IRA. As well as setting an example of proper deomocracy.



    Secular Palestinians fear that Hamas will try to impose its ultraconservative vision on them. Its Gaza heartland has no cinemas or bars, yet the West Bank has a brewery and Ramallah restaurants serve wine.




    After controversies when a Hamas-led council halted a dance festival and Islamist gunmen stopped a rap band performing in Gaza, Dr Zahar (*) defended the enforcement of a strict interpretation of Islam.

    “A man holds a woman by the hand and dances with her in front of everyone. Does that serve the national interest?”

    No dancing and no gays if Hamas gets its way



    (*) Dr. Zahar is described as the most senior leader of Hamas in Gaza

    [edit on 24-10-2005 by Riwka]



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