Chemtrails / EM

Originally posted by Essan
And none of the believers in chemtrails can prove they exist.

You are correct. Neither side can prove anything, so shouldn't we at least keep an open mind on this?

And you are right about the pics, as I've said all along you cannot really go by pictures alone. That's why I don't post any chem pics.

And the ignorance of meteorology? Well we've been educated on it over and over by OTS and Howweird Roark, so I don't think that's a problem

Do you really believe they're not experimenting with the weather?

The Air Force believes it will eventually have the ability to create sudden localized storms that can thwart military operations.

www.popularmechanics.com...

HAARP and chemtrails=weather manipulation...

[edit on 9/12/2005 by ANOK]

All rights reserved it turns out....

Stellar

[edit on 9-12-2005 by StellarX]

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Look at the time this strange person put into this post. Then asks me if I ever though it was my state of mind that was different!

I don't know how quickly you type LGM, but I'm pretty fast. That post took me 3 mins to knock together - I only typed about 6 or 7 lines. Maybe it takes you a few hours to put something like together, I don't know.

And this is always how it ends up isn't it? OTS, Howard et al provide scientific evidence, dissect arguments and apply critical thinking. You can just say "I've seen strange things in the sky", like that represents some kind of cogent theory. Then, without fail, you run out of anything to add on the subject and just resort to name calling - this time referring to me as "strange" - which I must say is rich coming from you.

Have you got any evidence that the contrails we see in the sky every day are in fact full of noxious chemicals and that there is some kind of giant ongoing conspiricy?

I bet you dont have many friends in RL do you? Did I ever mention conspiracy when it comes to the chemtrail issue. How do you expect me to apply scientific evidence to something that mimicks contrails and weather patterns? I can only give my eye witness testimony. I can tell you it is starting to show up in the mainstream media see link

Anyway I know when something that I have been a witness to has changed, and the sky has changed a lot where I live, but only in the fall, winter and spring. The summer is completly absent of jet traffic here. People like you luke, think people like myself are seeing contrails and cirrus clouds and are getting paraniod. I cant afford to be a paranoid, I can only be very observent to things that change. Its my job. So Luke you can take your attitude and live with it, I'm just glad I am not like you.

The Oracle who knows much thanks to a GOD given ability to see the BIGGER PICTURE......& other reasons....will tell what the Chemtrails ARE...Chemtrails are secret military tests to study the feasability of spreading biological pathogens,chemicles etc by aerosolizing it and spreading it accross HUGE portions of land,by jets. They also have what I believe to be an early warning system...ie the chjemtrails you see will turn a specific color if any aerosolized pathogens are present in atmosphere, giving several hours of warning to seal up an airtight safe area, get president, & important military personel in safe command zones. THe oracle could be in trouble for posting this. Any other conspiracies I will be happy to expound upon.....All is proceeding as PLANNED!!!

well, i'm coming into this topic very late, and no, i haven't read all the pages to it, but.. i'm still gonna put my two cents in.

i live in kentucky.. southcentral, almost on (well 15 mi from) the tenn. line.
..the closest airports, large ones, are both about 3hrs away.. one in nashville, and one in louisville..


.. i stumbled onto a page about chemtrails a couple years ago, and since then, have been watching the sky, not really defining what i think they are, etc..

but now, after watching them for so long, ... i'm really believing the whole chemtrail thing..

it's odd.. before 9/11, we NEVER had planes fly over.. or if they did, they were big jets, flying so high up you could barely see them, and the trails they left faded within minutes, or..spread out within minutes.
..since 9/11, we see alot of planes, or atleast alot more than we used to fly overhead.. you know, that made sense to me.. seeing more planes after 9/11..
but what doesn't make sense are all the lower planes flying, and the trails they leave that take way longer to spread out, and when they do spread ...it's much denser/thicker than they used to be..
..everyday the weather is good, and in the morning-mid-afternoon the sky is the most beautiful blue..with normal looking clouds..
and everday driving home from work, after watching the sky fill up with these trails through the windows at work, on the way home it's amazing how the sky is always COVERED in clouds by 3-4pm... everyday it starts out blue, it never stays that way.. complete coverage. sometimes i can see blue off in the distance, sometimes not.. everday.
this is not normal to me.

the sheer amount of the trails..i don't see how it can be normal air traffic.. not the numbers of them, mixed with the patters they're in... large X's all across the sky, large grids...etc. that in no way seems normal to me....it's an everyday thing..
and i miss the blue skies driving home..

hollyjo, I must agree somewhat with your post. Just noticed the skys today in my area (east Tn.) as I drove home from work. Clear and blue this morning and covered in trails from jets this afternoon. I also noticed the unusual high amount of jets overhead with each ones trail going from horizon to horizon.

Why would they fly that many jets over my area at the same time with each seeming to be feeling in the empty areas of sky? A lot of questions and no answers I know. After reading your post I had to put my 2 cents in.

Originally posted by Harry55

Why would they fly that many jets over my area at the same time with each seeming to be feeling in the empty areas of sky? A lot of questions and no answers I know. After reading your post I had to put my 2 cents in.

They're probably airliners...... You'd be amazed just how many there are out there. I see at least 1 a minute fly across skies above my town in England all day and night. It's only early in the morning or evening when they catch the low sun, or when atmospheric conditions are right for contrails to linger, that you really notice them. And most folk who don't routinely watch the sky are unaware they are there at all.

Originally posted by hollyjo
the sheer amount of the trails..i don't see how it can be normal air traffic.. not the numbers of them, mixed with the patters they're in... large X's all across the sky, large grids...etc. that in no way seems normal to me....it's an everyday thing..
and i miss the blue skies driving home..

So. . . . If two planes fly on intersecting flight paths, so that the contrails form an “X,” that is not normal right?

Therefore only parallel flight paths are normal. But wait, “grids” of parallel lines are not normal either. . . . .

So what is a normal flight path for a commercial air line?

How do airlines fly one flight from say Chicago to Atlanta, and another from Pittsburgh to St. Louis without the two flight paths intersecting?

What about this?

Suppose there are 10 flights from Minneapolis to Houston, (north to south) one every 15 minutes by different airlines and air freight companies. The planes follow the exact same route over the ground for each flight. The atmospheric conditions are such that air mass through which all the planes fly is supersaturated with respect to ice. Thus each plane leaves a persistent contrail. If the air mass were totally stationary, each plane would be flying though the contrails left by the previous planes.

However, if the air mass were moving from west to east at a speed of 20 miles per hour, the previous contrail would have moved off to the east by 5 miles by the time the next plane arrived on the flight track.

What would this look like? A series of parallel lines, of course.

Air Traffic Growth






Try this link, let me know if it works:
www.hq.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by HowardRoark
However, if the air mass were moving from west to east at a speed of 20 miles per hour, the previous contrail would have moved off to the east by 5 miles by the time the next plane arrived on the flight track.

What would this look like? A series of parallel lines, of course.

What is your motivation Howard? It is not a bunch of parallel lines that I have seen. I have seen up to six jets flying in parallel very close to the point that they looked like a precision airforce team flying at an airshow. I have seen this quite a few times, never before had I ever seen jets flying in civilian airspace over a city flying in such a manner.

Its against FAA rules to fly like that over populated areas. They just do not schedual them like that.

And you chart shows an increase of about 1/3 in a ten year period. That does not make up for the huge chemtrail activity in my area.

I will tell you what they are for though. Its the same thing as the reason for snow fall in the winter. It reflects the suns energy back towards outer space and keeps the earth from warming up too much. Looks like the chemtrail operation is working also, take a look at your weather the last few years. In the northern regions we are getting snowfall like we did before the 80's. It used to snow like it has been lately every year before the 80's. Thats when I have personally noticed that every year the winters started getting warmer. Finally it got so bad we were having green winters here in Michigan throug the entire season.

The earth wasnt getting its cooling off period for that time period. If that trend were to keep going we would end up with runaway greenhouse effect. The problem is that chemtrails are more than likely not healthy for us. It is though a lot cheaper than to fix the problem through lowering emissions enough to make a difference in the weather.

Persistant contrails! What rubbish! By the way I noticed you havnt posted in a while, were you on vacation from your disinformation job with the Fed?

Oh yeah, here is that link again for the Las Vegas Tribunes report on Chemtrails. Las vegas Tribune

[edit on 19-12-2005 by LoneGunMan]

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Its against FAA rules to fly like that over populated areas. They just do not schedual them like that.

Can you cite the particular rule the was being broken and how you know that it was being broken?

Specifically, how do you know what flight level the different planes were flying at?

Persistant contrails! What rubbish!

Clouds! What rubbish.

Contrails in history:

Originally posted by LoneGunMan


Its against FAA rules to fly like that over populated areas. They just do not schedual them like that.

faa regulations reference formation flights:


Sec. 91.111

Operating near other aircraft.

(a) No person may operate an aircraft so close to another aircraft as to create a collision hazard.
(b) No person may operate an aircraft in formation flight except by arrangement with the pilot in command of each aircraft in the formation.
(c) No person may operate an aircraft, carrying passengers for hire, in formation flight.
source

you'll notice there are no restrictions as to where formation flights are allowed.

i work flights of up to six military aircraft on a daily basis over populated areas. might want to research before you make claims like this.

I think that LGM was talking about planes flying along the same track like these

www.airliners.net...

www.airliners.net...

www.airliners.net...

Notice that they are all at different flight levels, a fact that is impossible to determine from the ground.

Howard, how is it that your pictures of B-17 flying forts with P-47 Thunderbolts flying top cover producing contrails has anything to do with persistant contrails? Show me a time lapse of them spreading out into complete overcast in a 6-12 hour time period and then you would have something.

The pictures from the airliners site has nothing to do with what I am talking about either. Holy crap how stupid do you think people are? Aircraft cross each others flight paths, I see everytime I travel by air. I am talking about flight paths that are six abreast, in very tight formation all day long over and over again in the same city until the sky is overcast.

Do you people ever look at the sky!?!

Las vegas Tribune

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Holy crap how stupid do you think people are?

Every time I visit this thread I have to make a re-assessment.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

I will tell you what they are for though. Its the same thing as the reason for snow fall in the winter. It reflects the suns energy back towards outer space and keeps the earth from warming up too much. Looks like the chemtrail operation is working also, take a look at your weather the last few years. In the northern regions we are getting snowfall like we did before the 80's. It used to snow like it has been lately every year before the 80's. Thats when I have personally noticed that every year the winters started getting warmer. Finally it got so bad we were having green winters here in Michigan throug the entire season.

Except the effect of high level clouds (cirrus) as sometimes produced by contrails - and misinterpreted by some as chemtrails - is into reflect heat back to Earth and thus enhance global warming.....

earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Its against FAA rules to fly like that over populated areas. They just do not schedual them like that.

Then how come nobody else notices it apart from you? Are all the flight controllers in the world also in on the conspiricy? All of them?!?

And you chart shows an increase of about 1/3 in a ten year period. That does not make up for the huge chemtrail activity in my area.

But as you cannot provide any evidence why should we believe you? I don't have you down as a reliable witness.

The earth wasnt getting its cooling off period for that time period. If that trend were to keep going we would end up with runaway greenhouse effect. The problem is that chemtrails are more than likely not healthy for us. It is though a lot cheaper than to fix the problem through lowering emissions enough to make a difference in the weather.

So you are saying that because your local winter temperatures have fallen the last few years that global warming has somehow been reversed by planes spraying "chemtrails" over your city? Can you explain how this works exactly? Some science would be lovely.

Do you have any idea of the extent of spraying worldwide that would have to happen to have an effect on long term global temperatures? If it is possible at all. You mention the "runaway greenhouse" effect as it is probably an expression that you picked up off the news - but can you explain what, in this context, you actually mean by it?

Persistant contrails! What rubbish!

Howard and OTS have demonstrated time and time again, using clear and well established science, how contrails can persist indefinitely.

Oh yeah, here is that link again for the Las Vegas Tribunes report on Chemtrails. Las vegas Tribune
[edit on 19-12-2005 by LoneGunMan]

We have been over this before - it is garbage.

From your above comments FatherLukeDuke I have to say I must just not even let any of what you say bother me. You are not woth the bad vibes I feel when I read your posts, you ooze with eveything I consider to be the type of person I dislike. Did you grow up with major problems and get teezed a lot? What makes you tick? You are the only person I have dealt with in ATS that acts this way towards me. You have been shooting snide remarks and trying to put me down from the start. You make this thread feel like junior high school.

You say I am not a reliable witness? I bet if you and I were in court, and they could see what I am like in real life and see what I am sure you are like in RL, you would get thrown out of the courtroom. BTW the United States Gov thinks I am as reliable of a witness as it gets.

Also where in the world has OTS and Howie ever proven persistant contrails can last indefinatly? The sun will burn off what little moisture is concentrated from a contrail within a relativly short period of time.

One more thing, how is it that the Las Vegas Tribune article I posted is bunk?

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Also where in the world has OTS and Howie ever proven persistant contrails can last indefinatly? The sun will burn off what little moisture is concentrated from a contrail within a relativly short period of time.

Then how do clouds manage to stick around?

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Then how do clouds manage to stick around?

The same way a barrel of water would stick around longer than a thimble full

[edit on 21/12/2005 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Then how do clouds manage to stick around?

The same way a barrel of water would stick around longer than a thimble full

[edit on 21/12/2005 by ANOK]

Care to go into that in detail?

Do you have any data regarding the evaporation / condensation rates of either a barrel or a thimble of water?

Do you even understand that question?