Originally posted by ANOK

And how is your opinion any more "professional" than any body elses.
A lot of people on this site like to claim themselves as professionals at something.
Does your experience make you any more of a professional on the subject of secret military/government projects than me?

i am a professional air traffic controller, and a private pilot. what do you do again?

Haven't I heard that same argument in the 911 conspiricy? If there really was a conspiricy then lots of people would have to know about it? Well a lot of people seem to know something about chemtrails. Wheres there's smoke and all that....

listen, man, i am not trying to change your mind about anything. for the third time, i am simply saying that the "evidence" i have seen is not evidence at all. if you dont want professional analysis of the data, then simply state that this is your opinion, not a proven fact.

as far a 9/11 goes, i know as much as everyone else, and do not feel i have enough knowledge to comment one way or the other, except to say that it is my opinion that the federal government could never put something like that together without someone getting wind of it. there's just too much incompetency at that level to pull something of that magnitude off.

Originally posted by ANOK
Dude obviously with so many web sites about contrails there are more than 20 ppl who believe it's happening.

Yeah, it's got to be closer to 30.

Here we go again the same tired ramblings presenting absolutely no evidence of a conspiricy. You just keep chucking the personal comments around so as to avoid the argument, such as it is.

SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!

LOL all I do is give back what you all dish out "fader".

If you are tired of this then why are you bothering to waist your time here?
No one is forcing you to participate, or are they?
Go invade someones elses thread where you are more welcome.
You are the one boring everybody!

(it's funny, the same group of ppl show up eveytime in chemie threads eh? I'm surprised not so off the street aint showed up yet. If ya'll don't like it go elswhere)

[edit on 27/10/2005 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
If you are tired of this then why are you bothering to waist your time here?
No one is forcing you to participate, or are they?
Go invade someones elses thread where you are more welcome.
You are the one boring everybody!

(it's funny, the same group of ppl show up eveytime in chemie threads eh? I'm surprised not so off the street aint showed up yet. If ya'll don't like it go elswhere)

Yeah, off_the_street, another guy that works in aviation that is saying this is a bunch of bunk. Maybe the reason that the same people show up to nay say is because they are people that know better, and get tired of their professions getting blamed for something that is not true… You may not know this, but its true for most of the people I have ever known that have worked in the field of aviation, and that is they do so out of love of the job, not because the pay is great or they get flight benefits (most actually don’t get free flights, And I have made more in every other profession I have worked in since then).

Ah, but yes we are all really disinfo agents that are under the employ of the US government. (I’m still waiting on that paycheck from them, for some reason it seems that they only take money from me though!)

I suppose that you pick on CommanderKeenKid for showing up to nay say the BS questions, stories, and theories about astronomy, a hobby that he obviously loves, as well?

Has it ever dawned on you that 99.99999% of these chemtrail threads show the same thing over and over again, which are commercial air traffic contrails?
Now, I am not saying that what you are seeing is. Maybe you’re in the .00001% that is near where NASA was doing the tests on the effects of Contrails to the environment, or the military is up to something. Although even if there are a few programs doing this sort of activity its to such a small extent that again 99.9999% of the people out there that think they are seeing aerial spraying are actually seeing normal flight traffic patterns.

The worst part about it is that it should be simple to verify if the flights you are seeing are commercial, or not. If they are commercial, then you’re seeing a contrail 100% for certain (both freight and passenger). If they are military then, the sky is the limit as to what they are up to, and as civilians, we may never know.

As a matter of fact someone in another thread had listed a piece of software that would tell you what traffic was passing over at what time of day, so you could somewhat correlate what flights you were seeing. I am not sure how that software worked, or if it compensated for traffic being rerouted, late flights, redirected flights, flights in hold, and the like, but I know it exists. If anyone knows what that software was, please list it here.


[edit on 10/27/2005 by defcon5]

Well no one ever believed in radiation either. People at one time believed that if you exceeded 60 mph all the air would be sucked out of your lungs and you would die.

What would it take to prove it to you flat earthers? Its funny back when OTS was here, and kept pushing people around about being a Boeing engineer, he made fun of me for bringing up a certain Boeing that he claimed didnt exist. I proved it to be a viable airraft and not long after that he stopped frequenting the message board.

I learned about chemtrails not from the Internet or anyone else. I am an avid aviation enthusiast and am always looking to the sky for interesting aircraft, been doing it since I can remember. I have seen every type of contrail, in every weather situation that they are able to form. One summer in July of 1999 I was working as a car-salesman on a car lot that is on a high hill with a wonderful vista of the sky. I was feeling really good that day for I had made quite a bit of money selling cars. I parked a car, got out and looked up into the sky. I will never forget the feeling. The sky at the western horizon was filled with the strangest looking (contrails) I thought to myself what the ****! I had NEVER seen anything like it. They were not in normal jet traffic positions and were right next to each other. They were so thick, so opaque, and so un-natural, I looked for at least five to ten minutes trying to figure out what was going on. My mood instantly went from elation to a feeling of dread.

It took a few years before I had seen articles about chemtrails. When I saw some real chemtrail pictures I had instant recall to that day, I have been trying to figure out this crazy thing ever since.

I cannot explain the logistics the reason or any of that. I just know what I have seen.

man, you guys are so damn thick-headed. i understand your zeal, but come on, try to be a little more professional and maybe more people will listen. have either you or anok actually read any of my posts?

i have never said that you are full of crap, or that i dont believe you. in fact, i have been very reasonable and professional, even in the face of some pretty derogatory remarks. i just want to see some proof, and what i've seen so far is anything but that.

i am going to try this one last time: i have no doubt of your sincerity, and while i cant say i actually believe any of this, i'm not out to debunk anybody. i'm just giving my professional opinion of the data you guys have posted.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
It took a few years before I had seen articles about chemtrails. When I saw some real chemtrail pictures I had instant recall to that day, I have been trying to figure out this crazy thing ever since.

I cannot explain the logistics the reason or any of that. I just know what I have seen.

in the quote above, you mention "real chemtrail pictures." lets see them. post them here, or give me a link to them. i really want to know once and for all if there is anything to this.

Originally posted by snafu7700
man, you guys are so damn thick-headed. i understand your zeal, but come on, try to be a little more professional and maybe more people will listen. have either you or anok actually read any of my posts?

Thick headed?? Listen guy you are obviously a little imature or you would not resort to name calling. Secondly you are being the one that is thick headed. You didnt get my drift at all?!? I will never ever with any pictorial evidence prove to you there are chemtrails. You are a flat earther and I do not have the technology to fly you to earth orbit so I can demonstrate to you that the world is round.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by snafu7700
man, you guys are so damn thick-headed. i understand your zeal, but come on, try to be a little more professional and maybe more people will listen. have either you or anok actually read any of my posts?

Thick headed?? Listen guy you are obviously a little imature or you would not resort to name calling. Secondly you are being the one that is thick headed. You didnt get my drift at all?!? I will never ever with any pictorial evidence prove to you there are chemtrails. You are a flat earther and I do not have the technology to fly you to earth orbit so I can demonstrate to you that the world is round.

whatever, man. all i'm hearing is the same old lets go round the mulberry bush... you dont have any proof, so you just keep ragging the guys that ask for it...and thats what i was doing. if you had read the rest of my post instead of just that first paragraph, you would have seen that i was asking you to help me understand, to show me something that looked even a little bit out of the ordinary. you just had your chance to try and convince a skeptic, and you blew it with your immaturity.

i'm outta here....have fun making up your little stories for each others amusement.

Originally posted by snafu7700

in the quote above, you mention "real chemtrail pictures." lets see them. post them here, or give me a link to them. i really want to know once and for all if there is anything to this.

Ok mr snafu7700 I will bite, here is a real chemtrail picture.

Here is another.


There will not be any proof for you, you will simply state they are regular contrails. Before 1999 I had never seen a contrail like that one though.

see? was that so freaking hard. maybe if you spent a little less time being a smart ass and a little more time actually reading people's posts, you might get somewhere with this...

the first one looks normal, but i have to admit i have never seen anything quite like the second. i'm not convinced, but it merits more looking into. post more if youve got them (just not from that web site ya'll started with..homestead, i think it was....i can explain every single pic on that site).

LoneGunMan I will admit those are pretty neat/weird looking C-Trails (C = Chem or Con), but how do we know that they are not simply normal vapor trails that have been effected by high level wind shear, up/down drafts and the like? How would one go about proving there is anything in them beyond what is found in a normal contrail?

The easiest way would be to find out what type of aircraft supposedly left this behind then find out whom that aircraft belongs too. If its civilian, freight, mail, etc, then its just a wild looking contrail effected by the upper level winds, if its not then you may have a legitimate claim.

As far as Off_The_Street is concerned, I am pretty sure that he works in the financial arena of Boeing but has an engineering background, from some posts he has made before, and he may not know of some of their projects. It makes sense if you think about it, he is going to get certain rumors and such (shop talk and all), but may not be privy to everything that the company is involved in, especially if it’s a fairly sensitive project. Either way his not knowing about some aircraft that they made, does not drop his stock any in my book. What was the aircraft anyway?

I agree with Snafu, that the first one just looks like a normal trail, its been sitting for a while and the winds are starting to disperse it. The second one is freaky looking, but the more I look at it, the more it reminds me of something I have seen before but at lower altitude when a plane plows through haze or fog while landing. It’s almost like the wings concentrate the fog and it comes off all the edges as vertices, so it appears thicker in those areas and can hang in the air even at low altitude for awhile.

Originally posted by defcon5
I agree with Snafu, that the first one just looks like a normal trail, its been sitting for a while and the winds are starting to disperse it. The second one is freaky looking, but the more I look at it, the more it reminds me of something I have seen before but at lower altitude when a plane plows through haze or fog while landing. It’s almost like the wings concentrate the fog and it comes off all the edges as vertices, so it appears thicker in those areas and can hang in the air even at low altitude for awhile.

your talking about wake turbulence....basically wing vortices generated by lift. thats a good thought, the problem is all the blue sky in the background. fog generally dissipates uniformly. there would be at least a hint of more fog around the anomoly.

I am talking about all the vertices that come off an aircraft, wingtip vertices being the most visible when a plane is landing in the fog, heavy humidity, or rain. You can get vertices off any protrusion from the fuselage or the airfoil, it’s just the big ones that you ATC boys worry about such as wake turbulence. If you have ever worked approach control I am sure you have seen the long thin lines that come off different areas of the wing, body, and tail as an aircraft comes in to land in the fog or the rain.

If you notice the sky in that picture is not uniformly blue, but whiter down the center and to the left side. This could either be from the C-trail dissipating outward from the center, or it may be a very thin cloud formation that the aircraft was traveling through.


[edit on 10/28/2005 by defcon5]

hmm...i dont know. hey gunman....got any larger versions of this one? maybe more of the same cloud from different angles or something? thanks.

Well I cannot think of any reason that the photo would appear to be darker blue on the right side as opposed to the left, unless it’s an aerial photo of a space shot contrail which is dissipating that has been turned sideways. Therefore, I would opt that there is a thin cloud layer starting where the blue lightens up and continuing to the left side of the shot.

[edit on 10/28/2005 by defcon5]

You know you guys wonder why we get a little miffed.
When you get folks like the father and OFT, who act like they know all, and those that don't agree with them are stupid, what do you expect?

I never came to these chem discusions to prove anything to anybody.
All I want to do is discuss what I've witnessed with other interested people.
But these thread always just turn into stupid back and forth "you can't prove it" arguments and of course stupid me always gets suckered in.
You know there's a lot of things I can't prove to you, but it don't mean they're not true.
You all claim your "profeesional" knowledge of A/C proves you're the ones in the know. Well what about my "professional" knowledge of A/C? Is your knowledge different to mine? Maybe, but mine is enough for me to be sure what I witnessed was not normal A/C traffic in my area, and not normal contrails. I don't expect you to believe me. Like I said I don't really care if you do or not, your loss not mine.
I'm not a paranoid tin foil hat warer who thinks we are being poisoned or anything else like that. But I do believe there are experiments in weather control and climate control that have been going on now since at least the 50's.
Wilhelm Reich is the so called father of weather control and one of his ideas was to fill the sky with (i forget what off the top of my head) particles to control gloabl warming. He also worked on ways to spray chems in the sky to psycological control the enemy. Are they still doing these experiments?
You know they are allowed to experiment on a percentage of the population without theur knowledge right? I am first hand proof they use military members for experiments without their knowledge.
You see a program of spraying is not so far fetched, and we all know that the early German scientist experiments were continued as black ops by the U.S. and other allies up till today.
The more you learn about this stuff the more chemtrails become totaly plausable, and when you actualy see what some of here have it's hard to not be convinced.

Most ppl just don't watch the skies that much to notice. It's easy to just pass them off as normal contrails at a glance, but if you know A/C and your local normal flight patterns and you see something that don't fit, well do I need to say more?

I won't post pics cause it don't convince anyone who's mind is already made up (for them).

I don't ask anyone to believe me or other "chemies" as you call them. Just keep an open mind.

[edit on 28/10/2005 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
You all claim your "profeesional" knowledge of A/C proves you're the ones in the know. Well what about my "professional" knowledge of A/C? Is your knowledge different to mine?

Well yes, I already said if it’s military (your aviation experience), then gawd only knows, but if it civilian, I guarantee its not happening (for many reasons).

Originally posted by ANOK
You know they are allowed to experiment on a percentage of the population without theur knowledge right? I am first hand proof they use military members for experiments without their knowledge.

Yes, I am aware of these things.

Originally posted by ANOK
The more you learn about this stuff the more chemtrails become totaly plausable, and when you actualy see what some of here have it's hard to not be convinced.

I don’t think anyone has said it’s not plausible, rather I think that I have said if it’s happening it’s on a very small scale. Way smaller then what would allow for all the chem Threads and sites out there. Therefore 99.9999% of the stuff out there is just misidentification.