D.N.A. question

I have heard people that talk about aliens and the fact that they would not look like us. (two arms, two legs, a head) The scientific community laughs at the idea of greys. But think about this... In terms of evolution an organism need tools to have the ability to learn. (i.e. opposable thumbs) Over thousands of years of evolution we have learned to do to so many things with our opposable thumbs. What seperates us from similar species with similar d.n.a.?

In regards to the scientific community, what seperates humans from chimpanzies or dolphins? The answer is ambition. So... I guess my point is that if their are aliens would they not already have biological tools ready at their display? (hands and feet and head) Would they not have a specific D.N.A. strand assosiated with ambition?

Obviously if they have this strand they have had it far longer than we have. Did they give this to us, or was it GOD?

hi, this is my first post on the board.

anyways,

in answer to a few of your questions eyeball...

theres no telling as to whether aliens would be bipedal like humans or something else. i think alot of the reason why people do tend to view aliens as looking "humanoid" is because of, well for lack of a better word, ego. Alot of people tend to think of humans as the highest form of intelligence, so therefore why wouldnt they view an alien in a similar image as us?

Also, from what i've read of alien abductions and encounters, these ET's have telepathic abilities, so the use of hands and such would be null and void if you could just do everything with your mind.

and to your final comments about "ambition". Humans are seperated from chimpanzies and dolphins and such because our brain has the ability of logical reasoning. "ambition" is a human created trait. it is the need for oneself to excel and gain in either material goods, power, money, etc. this is a product of the society we live in, not a product of evolution.

Something i've always wondered about though. What do you think of non-organic based aliens? non-carbon lifeforms?

Wow you have a lot of questions in that post. First off I don't think that scientists would laugh at the idea of a huminoid aliens. There is an idea in evolutionary theory that there are certain niches that creatures can evolve to fit in. For instance the wolf evolved into the wolf shape, with 4 legs and big teeth to become a good hunter. Likewise there was a creature that existed in Australia which was decended from marsupials which looked very much like a wolf and fitted in the same niche (although it is extinct now). I think that technologically advanced creatures would perhaps need to have arms and fingers in order to use technology, and that would make us similar. As to your other thoughts, humans evolved over hundreds of thousands of years, we were not created by GOD as there is no such thing. We may have been genetically altered slightly by aliens. I guess we will find out when we fully understand the human genome.

Originally posted by eyeballkid
In terms of evolution an organism need tools to have the ability to learn.

Why?

(i.e. opposable thumbs) Over thousands of years of evolution we have learned to do to so many things with our opposable thumbs.

Why think its a requirement tho?

In regards to the scientific community, what seperates humans from chimpanzies

Their brains

or dolphins?

Lots fo stuff

if their are aliens would they not already have biological tools ready at their display?

It makes sense, but there are lots of ways to have and use tools, no reason why it'd have to be something shapped like man.

Would they not have a specific D.N.A. strand assosiated with ambition?

Since humans don't, why should they?


edit to add:

we've got lots of great threads on related topics, continue to discuss this one by all means, but here are some good ones you might like to check out also:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 25-10-2005 by Nygdan]

I tend to agree with McGuirk. Ego has something to do with it.
Any species; whatever it's origin, environment, and cell compostion is going to conform to fit an ideal form for survival and then advancement. Just look at all the different creatures on this planet of ours. Not all are composed of humanoid shapes, but many are succesful in their given environments.

Technology and its application is whatever some being requires of it. Why would a super inteligent geletanous life form need a chair or control panel? What if an alien race produces electric fields internaly. It doesn't need a transformer or power source to charge its devices. Space travel should not be limited to the idea of humanoids.


[edit on 25-10-2005 by nullster]

Originally posted by Dr X
As to your other thoughts, humans evolved over hundreds of thousands of years, we were not created by GOD as there is no such thing. We may have been genetically altered slightly by aliens.

That is an extremely ignorant statement.

Besides trying to insult over half of the members here, what purpose does stating your opinion as if it is a fact serve?

There are many here at ATS who have put forth excellent arguments for the existance of God - who are far more versed in Evolutionary Theory and the natural sciences than yourself.

Let's stick to facts please and not inject your own personal jihad against religon.

I think it's common sense that aliens we here about are generally humanoids, they evolving like ourselves, nature & evolution following similar laws and patterns and going down in similar paths to our own.


Assuming organisms evolved first in the water and thus becoming symetrical to move more effeciently, moving on land evolving legs to move more effeciently, wings in order to fly and so on.

I think the apex of evolution is sentinent beings, and "being made in gods image" is it no suprise we all seemingly look alike?

who's to say that God is not a highly evolved alien who became able to manifest all matter, but didn't necessarily create the universe?

Exactly!

In fact my hypothesis is that he is in fact the very First alien (or at least the first sentient one) and that he did not create the Universe but rather reorganized ours in the last Big Bang.

I think there is a very good chance that he is in fact The Universe (which may consist of far more than "our" known Universe) and that we and all creation in all universes everywhere simply exist within him.

Not too much of a leap if you consider the amazing ability of entangled particles to interact intimately although seperated by vast distances, and
the fact that the "Omniverse" may have existed in one form or another for a near infinite time period.

i have long believed that the angels and such that are seen are aliens, and that 'god' is an alien lifeform.... and that the messiahs sent down were aliens... isnt it convienient that they were different messiahs for each center of population in the old world? what i mean is, theres no way its coincidence that each major population area has a different religious messiah that descended upon them... (mohammed, jesus, buddha, etc)

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by eyeballkid
In terms of evolution an organism need tools to have the ability to learn.

Why? I compare limbs to tools.

(i.e. opposable thumbs) Over thousands of years of evolution we have learned to do to so many things with our opposable thumbs.

Why think its a requirement tho? I think that is a requirement for basic adaptation in the world we live in based on the fact that we have had predators that we had to defend ourselfs against. Plus the fact that we have had the abilty to climb like a monkey to avoid escape from predators wanting what we have killed.

In regards to the scientific community, what seperates humans from chimpanzies

Their brains

or dolphins?

Lots fo stuff

if their are aliens would they not already have biological tools ready at their display?

It makes sense, but there are lots of ways to have and use tools, no reason why it'd have to be something shapped like man.

Would they not have a specific D.N.A. strand assosiated with ambition?

Since humans don't, why should they? Their is something that seperates us from a chimpanzie, but base on D.N.A. it ain't much. In in the world of monkeys the greatest ambition is sex. Our ambition is too make more money or to outsmart the opposition, which I think is immature.


edit to add:

we've got lots of great threads on related topics, continue to discuss this one by all means, but here are some good ones you might like to check out also:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 25-10-2005 by Nygdan]

[edit on 25-10-2005 by eyeballkid]

Here's another example of convergence in evolution: Eyes are extremely useful for obvious reasons. Our best science indicates that mammal eyes developed as direct extensions of their brains, that is, a specialized nerve growing out from the brain to the skin. Squid, however, have eyes that seem to have grown from the surface of their skin. Two completely different paths to the same useful body part.

So, if the humanoid form is extremely useful, it may be that the vast majority (or all) alien species eventually evolves to be humanoid one way or the other. But we just don't know because we haven't met them. (Officially.)

I have to agree that human ego plays a big part in all conjectures about alien life. Not just in how people believe they are shaped.

Ambition is not an exclusively human trait. Animals (and plants and all evolving life forms) aggressively pursue resources to sustain their populations. Those species that don't die off. For species with two sexes this is most obviously manifest in the pursuit of a mate, but even simpler species fight for food resources and the like.

Human ambition is typically the drive for wealth and power. The ambition we demonstrate is just another manifestion of a behavior we share with all the other animals on this planet. The world makes a lot more sense when you understand that people are just very advanced animals. :/

While there's reason to believe aliens would be ambitious, there's no reason to think they would share a specific "ambition strand of DNA". Behavior, like the eye, may evolve in different ways. Also, DNA is what codes life as we know it. Alien life could be made of some other material. In fact our scientists are trying to make artifical life of other stuff right now, like PNA: www.protolife.net...

Originally posted by uca6usev2FeDREmU


Ambition is not an exclusively human trait. Animals....

although you are correct about animals striving for resources for survival and mating... i do not see this as 'ambition', i see this as the underlying basic instinct of survival. all animals have this basic form of instinct, to survive and mate. i see ambition as a word describing a drive for things above and beyond the basic instinct. the drive to live in luxury, to be known, to be succesful. this somewhat is related to survival and mating, but is not a necessary thing.

Right, but I'm saying that human ambition is just basic survival instinct carried to an extreme. If animals could live in luxury, I'm sure they would. The only difference between the two, besides degree, is our perception of the behavior. And that is unfortunately affected by the ego you mentioned previously.