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Sniper "Ranking"

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posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 06:45 AM
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I was wondering how many confirmed kills do the worlds greatest snipers have, so i tought why not make a list of top snipers from all countries... since most important countries are represented here in ATS, I assume well get a pretty good list...

I'll start by top Finnish snipers:

nr1 Simo Häyhä - confirmed 505 (unofficial 545) with iron sighted related M28 Pystykorva rifle (modified mosin-nagant)

nr2 Sulo Kolkka - 400+ with a similar rifle


additional question does anyone have (verified) data what is the most accurate sniper rifle in history/atm?

Simo Häyhä




posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:02 AM
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Well, since we are from the same country I think that you already have brought up the best ones... But 500 kills is a lot... and just with an ironsight...

But when it comes to accuracy I think that the M-82 comes very close to the 1st place. With it's range of 1800 meters i think that it makes any opponent scared...



BTW, here's a picture of Finlands most accurate sniper ever...





[edit on 21-10-2005 by Figher Master FIN]



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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Gunny Sergeant Carlos Hathcock aka White Feather gives his own account of his 93 confirmed kills as a heroic Marine sniper in Vietnam.

Hathcock is one of the most famous Marine Scout Snipers and his book is a must read for any aspiring Sniper.

There are plenty more, but due to the fact that I am at work and restricted to certain sites, I will find what I can on other US Snipers and confirmed kills.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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Definitely need to include conflicts here too, it’s hugely relevant. I’m certain geography and other considerations need to be taken into account. Time in action should also be mentioned.

It’s easy to say some player hit 500 career homeruns, but if he played for 18 years is that really better than somebody who hit 300 in 8 years?



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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When I can get to the site that has all his information then I will post it. But remember that he was usually either by himself or with one other Marine. So some information may not be readily available.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 04:42 PM
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No doubt, Marine snipers are the best. Even the standard Marine rifle qualification course is harder and better than the other services and nothing compared to what Marine snipers do.









[edit on 21/10/2005 by SportyMB]



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:42 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
No doubt, Marine snipers are the best. Even the standard Marine rifle qualification course is harder and better than the other services and nothing compared to what Marine snipers do.
[edit on 21/10/2005 by SportyMB]


First off, that is your biased opinion. Marine snipers aren't necessarily the best snipers in the world, even though many would like to think that. There are many other military branches that has "elite" snipers. Don't over look the Army Rangers, Special Forces, and the 1st Special Forces Detachment Delta.

I can say I do know what it feels like to have the sniper mentality to some extent. Sniping isn't all about shooting a target. A sniper may do more observing, and reporting than shooting. So the number of kills a sniper gets doesn't really matter. It isn't a game to see who can get the most kills. It's a life or death situation. You have to be intelligent and think on your feet. You have to weigh the different possibilities for a given situation; and execute the best choice. Or your actions may get you killed. A very skilled sniper, should be able to differentiate another skilled sniper, from a less experienced sniper easily. As a sniper you have to learn how to disappear on the battlefield. Sniping adds a very real psychological fear in the battlefield. A skilled sniper can keep an enemy team pinned down.

There are two things a sniper shouldn't be, one of them is called the Munich Massacre Syndrome. Which basically means a sniper who can't kill a target because they become too emotionally attached to the subject. For example, as a sniper you can view the individual hairs on a person's face through your telescopic scope. Depending on the situation you are in you may see the target eat, breath, laugh, and maybe even make love to another person. You will basically learn who that person is, and they will become more human to you, than just another target. While doing so, some people wouldn't be able to kill the target when the call comes, due to them being emotionally attached. A sniper doesn't need to be like that.

The second thing a sniper shouldn't have is called the Texas Tower Syndrome. Which basically means a sniper who gets such a thrill out of killing their subjects that they kill more than they need to. This is a maniac. A cold blooded killer, whom enjoys killing people.

As a sniper you need to have some religion, or personal philosophy, so that you can cope with the fact that you kill people. Sniping isn't a game. Seeing which sniper can kill the most isn't a game.

Your Friend, LOD

[edit on 083131p://555 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]

[edit on 083131p://555 by LiquidationOfDiscrepancy]



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
No doubt, Marine snipers are the best.

Then why aren't the assasination squads made up of marines eh?



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 08:57 PM
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there really hasn't been formal sniper training until after WW2. Before then most snipers were just extrememly good marksman. Also until WW2 the equipment and tactics hadn't developed to a point that dedicated snipers were needed.

"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance." Union General "Uncle John" Sedgwick



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by SportyMB
No doubt, Marine snipers are the best.

Then why aren't the assasination squads made up of marines eh?

Who's says they're not....ya never know, maybe they're prior Marine, maybe active duty. The USSS recruits Marines for snipers, that's what I've heard. Anyways, what's your idea of an assasination squad? What's one comprimised of?


LiquidationOfDiscrepancy, I meant that as overall....not that every Marine sniper is the best...of course there are better snipers out there, but overall the Marines produce and train some really good snipers. And the fact that a Marine has the the record for getting a kill at the longest distance (2450meters I think) only adds to my statement.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
Then why aren't the assasination squads made up of marines eh?

Who's says they're not
True, but for the most part they're not and its army Sf that is sused for those kinds of things. Phoenix units is what I think they call them.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
No doubt, Marine snipers are the best. Even the standard Marine rifle qualification course is harder and better than the other services and nothing compared to what Marine snipers do.


I assume by "Marine" you mean U.S. Marines.

Actually, Royal Marines undergo the longest (and arguably hardest) basic training in the world and it is largely because of this that they are regarded by many as the world's best fighting force.

The UK's sniper training is also long and extremely difficult and considered by many to produce the "best" snipers in the world as well.

p.s. I'm american so I'm not just "tooting my own horn" here.


Originally posted by SportyMB
And the fact that a Marine has the the record for getting a kill at the longest distance (2450meters I think) only adds to my statement.


You thought wrong, as records go.

The current record for longest range sniper kill is 2,430 m (7,972 ft), reportedly accomplished by a Canadian sniper, Master Cpl. Arron Perry (of the Canadian Forces sniper team from the Princess Partricia's Canadian Light Infantry), in 2002, during the invasion of Afghanistan. This meant that the round had a flight time of four seconds, and a drop of 146 feet. The previous record was held by Carlos Hathcock, achieved during the Vietnam War, at a distance of 2,250 m.

Simo Häyhä (December 17, 1906 – April 1, 2002) of Finland is regarded as the most effective sniper in the history of warfare. Using a relatively primitive Mosin-Nagant Model 28, Häyhä sniped 542 Soviet Union soldiers in Winter War from November 30, 1939 to March 6, 1940, when he was seriously wounded.


[edit on 10/21/05 by redmage]



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 10:06 PM
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redmage, while you are correct with the Canuck shooter getting the longest shot, we have to put GYSGT Hathcocks shot into perspective with the Canadian.

The Canuck used a dedicated long range .50 cal rifle, with dedicated long range ammo, after using dedicated optics with a ranging reticle, and range finding lasers to calculate the distance.....and 6 total shots before connecting.

Carlos utilized a very much used .50 machine gun which was still mounted in its perimeter defense position, after jerry-rigging his Unertl 10X scope to it....and took 3 total shots after guessing the range and fall of the bullet. His was also a confirmed head-shot.

Not to take away from the Canadians skill, but GYSGT Hathcock is still the superior shooter without a doubt.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 10:48 PM
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Hathcock was called Half-cocked in Nam. That should tell you a lot about those individuals who become snipers.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by Army
redmage, while you are correct with the Canuck shooter getting the longest shot,
Not to take away from the Canadians skill, but GYSGT Hathcock is still the superior shooter without a doubt.


Nowhere did I state that one was "better" than the other, just what the record was, in fact it could be argued that Simo Häyhä was "better" than both of them.

I don't think you can judge, overall, who's snipers are "better" by one man or one shot/record.

In fact, if you read the post, I believe I stated that the UK had the best overall training, thus snipers, as a whole.

[edit on 10/22/05 by redmage]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by garyo1954
Hathcock was called Half-cocked in Nam. That should tell you a lot about those individuals who become snipers.


Perry was "half cocked" as well.

Master Cpl. Arron Perry made national headlines twice in 2002: the first was anonymous, after he shot an al-Qaida fighter in Afghanistan from 2,430 metres, a world record.

The second was public and ugly. Perry, 33, and a 13-year veteran, was accused of discreditable conduct after he allegedly cut the finger off an al- Qaida corpse, defecated on another and then had his picture taken with a corpse that had a lit cigarette hanging from his lips and a sign around his neck reading "#### Terrorism."

No circumventing the censor.



[edit on 22-10-2005 by Thomas Crowne]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 12:44 AM
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By far the Best Female sniper was the Russian LYUDMILA PAVLICHENKO in WW2. Using a Mosin-Nagent Russian sniper rifle with a P.E. 4-power scope 309 confirmed kills. One of here enemy snipers she killed a Nazi had 500 soviet kills according to his logbook.

Ivan Mikhailovich Sidorenko- 500 confirmed kills Russia

Nikolay Yakovlevich Ilyin- 494 confirmed kills Russia

Ivan Nikolayevich Kulbertinov- 489 confirmed kills Russia

Fyodor Matveyevich Ohlopkov- 429 confirmed kills Russia (not including machinegun score )

Of course, the number of confirmed kills is much lower than the real number of kills for all these guys and girls. For example, F.Ohlopkov killed over 1000(!) enemy soldiers and officiers.

wio.ru...



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:00 AM
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The current record for longest range sniper kill is 2,430 m (7,972 ft), reportedly accomplished by a Canadian sniper, Master Cpl. Arron Perry (of the Canadian Forces sniper team from the Princess Partricia's Canadian Light Infantry), in 2002,

Yup, that's correct.....I thought I read something about it being broken in A-stan, but the article was about longest confirmed kill n A-stan, not overall. Good point.



Actually, Royal Marines undergo the longest (and arguably hardest) basic training in the world and it is largely because of this that they are regarded by many as the world's best fighting force.

True, but nothing was said about which basic training is the hardest. The US Marines standard rifle qualifiction course (to my knowledge) is the hardest. They shoot from standing, sitting, kneeling and prone at distances upto 500 yards/meters. That's without a scope, just using an M16A2......which is still not that long compared to snipers. Sorry to get off topic with that.

I could'nt find the stats for the Royal Marines.....maybe they shoot from farther distances (not snipers). If someone could give it a try that'd be great



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:36 AM
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Found a great link on british sniper testing requirements.

www.snipercountry.com...

"All potential Snipers must achieve 75% mastery to pass each discipline, and must pass all disciplines."

"During the badge test Snipers may fail each stand once and be re-tested. If he fails one of the re-tests, he fails the whole test and must spend a minimum of two weeks re-training before re-attempting the whole badge test."

75% may seem "easy" till ya look at the requirements; plus, in any section, 2 strikes and you're out and need to re-test entirely.

And of course if you pass "Once the cadre is complete, continuation
training begins."

The Concealment and Stalking requirements are insane!





[edit on 10/22/05 by redmage]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:10 AM
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The early USMC sniper course was based on the RM sniper cadre. Indeed, each year several USMC shooters attend the All Arms sniper cadre as an "upgrade" to their US qual (these are the words of a USMC sniper who attended the sniper cadre with me in 2000). This says alot about the quality of the RM course.

Shooting is only one of the 6 tests that a student MUST pass in the RM sniper cadre. The fact that a sniper can hit a target from 9 miles away is fairly useless if he can't see the target because it's obscured from long range observation. A sniper must find, identify, observe, close in on and kill the target, then extract himself undetected. On the all arms cadre, the shooter must close to within 200m of a qualified RM sniper instructor, fire a blank round with another instructor standing beside him, fire another round, and remain undetected. The walker the places his hand on the head of the student. If the observer still can't see the student, he has passed. Also, the range settings on the rifle are checked, and the student is tested as to whether he can still see the target when he fires his blanks. If a student is seen by the observer at any time, the observer guides the walker to him by radio, and the student has failed. He will also fail if he cannot see the observer when he fires, or if the scope settings are wrong. Fail the stalk on the second attempt and the student fails the entire course.

This is just 1 of the 6 tests.

Not all good shots are snipers, but all snipers must be good shots!

BTW, I didn't pass the sniper course - I failed on the stalk. I can still shoot the flies off a cows hide at 600m though!

[edit on 22-10-2005 by PaddyInf]



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