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What is enlightenment supposed to be?

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posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 03:30 PM
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We'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue then.

I believe firmly that children are born categorizing people and their environment as good and bad. I do agree with you that our experiences and what we are taught is what molds our ego. This is what forces us to conform to society and be (or appear to be) alot less selfish and egotistical than we are as children, IMO.

Good conversation. Shall we discuss anything else?




posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by zenlover28
Good conversation. Shall we discuss anything else?


Sure
.

You said that enlightenment is peace.

Do you believe that this state of enlightenment once achieved can be reversed?

Do you believe that we can only experience small amounts of enlightenment, or once we are enlightened are we so for the rest of our lives?



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by AkashicWanderer

Do you believe that this state of enlightenment once achieved can be reversed?

Do you believe that we can only experience small amounts of enlightenment, or once we are enlightened are we so for the rest of our lives?


Are you speaking individually or collectively? If speaking individually, I don't think as long as humans have feelings that we can ever attain peace except as I mentioned earlier through meditating on a mountain or wherever you choose to remove yourself to. And the same collectively. Society will always have bad eggs. Good/bad it's only a matter of human perception to me. We have to have both in my opinion. So to answer your first question, yes it can and more than likely will always be reversed.

As for the second question, I believe we only experience small amounts of enlightenment at whatever given moment we have removed ourselves from the world during meditation or whatever means.

I meditated in the desert on a rock for 8 hours once. While I came away from it feeling so very peaceful and at one with nature and the universe, the feeling didn't last. Eventually, life had to happen again.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by zenlover28
I meditated in the desert on a rock for 8 hours once. While I came away from it feeling so very peaceful and at one with nature and the universe, the feeling didn't last. Eventually, life had to happen again.


Now this is something interesting to talk about.

Why is it that we cannot have this sense of peace at all times?

In my opinion it is because we identify so much with the world, and what's happening around us that we lose ourselves, and feed the ego. When we are meditating there is nothing to identify with except our thoughts, but it is still much easier. Isn't it possible to extend this non-identification to people, actions, and events instead of just thoughts?

What do you guys think?



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Honestly, Akashic, I believe that is what we are supposed to do. I believe the human ego is what creates the diversity we see in this world. Without it life would just be completely and utterly boring. Wouldn't you agree? Sure it's nice to live in a idealistic world and think about how wonderful it would be if we could all just be at peace, but that takes away the very essence of life and living.

You know something and this may sound completely stupid, but after years of meditating and trying to find inner peace, it made me appreciate every feeling I have, every breath I take, every person I encounter, and every experience I have that much more. I always used to think that I was special (we all do) and that I had some great purpose to serve in this world and beyond and when I finally realized that I didn't, I found a different kind of peace. Sorry if that sounded stupid, but I wanted to share it just the same.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by zenlover28
Honestly, Akashic, I believe that is what we are supposed to do. I believe the human ego is what creates the diversity we see in this world. Without it life would just be completely and utterly boring. Wouldn't you agree?


No, to me the destruction, and suffering caused by the egoic mind don't make anything "exciting". Without the ego there would be no such feeling of being bored. This is caused by the unacceptance of the present moment, the egoic mindset.


Sure it's nice to live in a idealistic world and think about how wonderful it would be if we could all just be at peace, but that takes away the very essence of life and living.


Agreed, we cannot mentally linger on a mind-made future, which denies the present moment.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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Destruction and suffering is a terrible thing. I agree and it so sad to see, but it happens and it will always happen regardless if humans cause it or not. Just as Hurricane Katrina ripped and ravaged lives, land, homes...it wasn't something that we could control. Removing the ego would not solve all the suffering and destruction in this world. It would only change the way that we experience the suffering and destruction in this world. In other words, we wouldn't care.

Did that make sense?



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by zenlover28
Did that make sense?


Yes very much so.

The only reason we suffer is because of the ego. Hurricane Katrina did not create any suffering, it was our ego that created it, using such an event in order to feed itself.

When we dissolve the ego, natural disasters will still happen, but no suffering will happen. All things are impermanent, no form is eternal.

BUT

I would say that most of the suffering in this world, is brought on by humans. Through the egoic mindset, which separates the person from the rest of the universe, and makes him only care about what pleases himself. This unempathic disregard is what causes most suffering IMO.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 04:43 PM
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LOL Well we found one thing we agree on as far as how we would experience the suffering from Hurricane Katrina. But, there would still be alot of suffering despite the ego or not. It wouldn't change alot of things and I'm off for the night. I'll delve more deeply into my thoughts on this tomorrow. See you then! Thanks for the chat!



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by zenlover28

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer

Do you believe that this state of enlightenment once achieved can be reversed?

Do you believe that we can only experience small amounts of enlightenment, or once we are enlightened are we so for the rest of our lives?


[....]

As for the second question, I believe we only experience small amounts of enlightenment at whatever given moment we have removed ourselves from the world during meditation or whatever means.

I meditated in the desert on a rock for 8 hours once. While I came away from it feeling so very peaceful and at one with nature and the universe, the feeling didn't last.
Eventually, life had to happen again.


i see that as being enlightened.
..getting out of the dissassociative state and back in touch with the 'practical' or natural world order.

i'm also with you on your take on 'slaying' Ones' EGO.
You, Them, or Me...we all have different degrees of controlling or in some cases subduing the Ego.

but, in my instance, I would not go so far as to do-away with my 'Ego'
to the extent that my self-preservation is nullified.

I could see a case where a 'believer'
might surrender their self, read Ego, toward a cause, or in obedience to a leaders order.... Isn't that how Martyrs, and suicide bombers might come about?
no-sir-ee....i'm un-enlightened to an extent that I covet my life, like perhaps a small child is all wrapped up in theirselves.
..all those thoughts & ideas of humbling ones' self & slaying my egos wants & desires is Way Too GrownUp thinking for me.

Perhaps that's the elightenment riddle?! peace & serenity & enlightenment
is not found by trying to un-tie all the mental knots made by our adult rationalizations and value judgements, some of which were handed down to us, and others evolved thru a lifetime of internal realities=>worldviews

? peace-serenity-enlightenment is produced by ones' walk-of-life
thru the many levels of mazes we find in this, the practical & natural world.

besides, zenlover28,
i really sense your just being rhetorical
and not diligently seeking any 'roadmap'.
enjoy ....



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by zenlover28
Just wondering how many of you here think you are enlightened and what your version of enlightenment is? Just curious. Thanks.


Enlightment is when you start to see things in a very different way. You no longer need thhe help of others or backing up informations near you, since you exactly know what you supposed to know. I doubt that most people are enlightened, as the World would be quite different then.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 07:57 AM
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St. Udio...you're exactly right. I'm not seeking any roadmap. I used to seek and seek and seek. I realized life was just passing me by. I'm glad that I realized it at such a young age too. At least I won't wake up when i'm 40 and be disheartened with the fact that I was too busy searching for the answers to actually realize that I had the answer all along.


Akashic...as far as the human ego causing suffering and devastation, yes it does. But, it also causes much kindness, love and caring. It's a catch 22 I guess. The New Agers see love, kindness and compassion coming from the very essence of our soul where I see it come from the ego. Just as we strive to do good because that is how we are molded and it makes us feel a great sense of accomplishment to do so. If the ego has a flaw it can do alot of bad. This is where I can make sense of trying to dissolve one's ego, but only to change it not to do away with it alltogether because as I've stated in my opinion it's not possible. Living without ego would not put an end to disease, natural disasters and other such things that are beyond our control. It would only change the experience of it as we agreed on yesterday. And, if none of us cared about those striken with disease how far would that get us.

So, see that's why I believe that society needs not dissolve their ego, but merely mold it and allow it to evolve as it has been doing since the existence of the human mind. I am not of the mindset that we are born good. Nor are we born bad. As i've stated, I see good/bad as a perception of the human mind. And, as the human mind perceives it, I would say that life makes us good. If we are shaped and molded correctly. But, hey that's just my beliefs.



posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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woops. Nevermind. Enlightenment is supposed to be a sensation of awareness, power, and... basically undescribable. the only way people know what it is is by reaching it. So phooey . your quest to discover with out discover is in vain.



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