What is enlightenment supposed to be?

Originally posted by truth_hurts
enlightenment is to understand the nature of reality.

Truth Hurts, BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by zenlover28
To free yourself from ego is not possible unless of course you spend your life meditating on a mountain somewhere.

So it is possible....

It's not a possibility.

Quick change of opinion...

I have to completely disagree with Akashic on that.

If one believes that it is impossible to get rid of the ego, then any attempts to do so will fail...

However if one is open minded, and through experience and not mental analyzation one attempts to see if the ego can be dissolved, one will see results.

Nope not a quick change of opinion. It's not a possibility to live your life meditating on a mountain somewhere. You have to eat don't you?

Enlightenment, is knowing who you are
before you can become enlightened you must know the answers to these three little questions,

1. who are we ?

2. where do we come from ?

3. where are we going ?

also, you must become aware of who your observer is, and realise all what it does in creating your reality,

Originally posted by iamian
Enlightenment, is knowing who you are
before you can become enlightened you must know the answers to these three little questions,

1. who are we ?

2. where do we come from ?

3. where are we going ?

also, you must become aware of who your observer is, and realise all what it does in creating your reality,

The answer to those questions from my perspective:

1. I am me.

2. I come from the joining of my mother's egg and my father's sperm.

3. I am going to live my life and love every minute of it and then die from either old age or some random event or disease.

I am not special. I have no special purpose except to be at the top notch of the food chain. I have an ego. I love my ego. It is what makes me who I am. I am an individual, I eat, I breathe, I laugh, I love, I cry, I have been known to even hate sometimes. I am not perfect. I can laugh at myself when I goof up and I have learned to not take life so seriously because I have learned that I am not important enough in the grand scheme of things for it to matter anyways. When I was born, I was born innocent and pure. I knew nothing about anything and my ego slowly formed as I was taught and molded into what society wanted me to be. I'm much better than the cave men/women back in the days when we didn't know much about anything or living civilly. I'm glad I've grown up in a society where human consciousness has evolved past the point of caveman mentality.

That's who I am. I think I know meself purdy good. And, i'm sure glad that mom and dad created me!

LOL had to edit a huge goof up

[edit on 26-10-2005 by zenlover28]

"What is enlightenment supposed to be?"

A question that has many variations of the same answer, so here is one more.

you stop being the kid in the back seat constantly asking "Are we there yet?" and become the adult in the front seat enjoying the ride.

Originally posted by Stevo_Devo
"What is enlightenment supposed to be?"

A question that has many variations of the same answer, so here is one more.

you stop being the kid in the back seat constantly asking "Are we there yet?" and become the adult in the front seat enjoying the ride.

Hey! I love that answer!!!!! It's great!

Originally posted by zenlover28
The answer to those questions from my perspective:

1. I am me.

2. I come from the joining of my mother's egg and my father's sperm.

3. I am going to live my life and love every minute of it and then die from either old age or some random event or disease.

This is what your saying:

1. Whatever society wants me to be.

2. A Monkey.

3. To an eventual death.

Why do you want to know what Enlightenment is?

Zenlover,

Please believe that dissolving the ego is possible. It takes a lot of work. It only starts with what you are talking about. But Zenlover, it goes further.... Dissolving the ego is what Jesus, Buddha, and all other "enlightened" spiritual minds did in their time. It is called renunciation, which literally means tearing yourself away from comfort to gain a spiritual epiphany. So Zenlover, when you say go to the mountains to meditate, that is EXACTLY what it means, and yes, they can bring food with them. Jesus went to wilderness for 40 days and nights remember? Buddha left his family and went into the mountains to gain spiritual enlightenment. The point is just because your pool of thought isn't deep enough to understand the possibility of such a task, doesn't mean that it isn't true. Jesus said I am the way the truth and the light. Walk in my shoes and heaven will be yours. He meant by that, I will lead by example, and if you choose to live like me, there are spiritual gifts that are esoteric until you have breath that first breath of freedom from the ego.

One more thing, you may not completely be free of the ego to feel your process of enlightenment. But that enlightenment will start pointing out to you, the ways to change, and what is now of no "real" worth.

Like I said before, all of your previous examples of enlightenment are somewhat true, but it certainly goes further, and deeper, to the point where you would even defend Akashics definition.

I wanted to know what people's versions of enlightenment was.

Ok, AbsoluteCreation, if you say so. This is just a mere discussion. I'm not bashing anyone for their beliefs. If it makes you happy then hey i'm happy. But, I will say this...it is not possible to be human and live life without an ego. Maybe for a short time we can refrain from our ego through meditation and removing ourselves from the world. But, we are born with that thing called an ego. It is our survival mechanism in life and it has a purpose. Throughout life our ego evolves and is molded and forms into what society wants us to be. If not, then we would be just like cavemen/women that I spoke of earlier. There is nothing wrong with being spiritual and wanting to attempt to dissolve your ego. But, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't make anyone special or enlightened. At least that's my opinion. But, hey I could be wrong.

Zenlover,

Let me try to explain my understanding better,

the ego is formed throughout our lives from the moment we start understanding our surroundings. Our ego is made up of everything we've experienced and understood throughout our life. Some good/some bad, nevertheless, our ego is there to guide us into our situations. So it would seem, I agree.

Now, lets define the ego. The ego is not real. It was created by you subconsiously by everything you ever wanted or didn't want. Everything you thought would make you happier, everyting you yearned to desire, the reasons you get jealous or fearful, or mad, or anxiety that seems to come from an "unknown source." The truth is that the ego desires to create its own identity seperate from what your true purpose is. The ego can never live in the present, only the past and future because it is NEVER SATISFIED. (which explains why you say enlightenement means living in the now) The ego can't live in the present because it is never satisfied. Why does the person that thinks this or that will make them happy, only to get it and still feel that same void. Again, because the ego is never satisfied, it always wants more.

Now, dissolving that ego, what does it mean? Do you still want to be successful, probably, but for different reasons. The ego needs to be abandoned so that people can live completely in their own true purpose. Once that has been ascertained, then you will know the truth, it won;t be debatable to you anymore. Like the baby that takes its first breath, how do you prepare him for that? It just changes everything.
Peace,

Ok. But, see I think we are born with an ego. Some people do, some people don't. But, I believe we are. Just like when a baby is born. It revovles around self. Even though innocent as it may be, it is completely wrapped up in itself and it's own survival. Babies and toddlers will do anything and everything to get what they want because they are wired to think only of themselves and their survival. This leads me to believe that the ego is not false but in fact a major part of a human's wiring as well as animals. To say it is a false sense of separtism, I can agree with though. Because I do believe everything is connected by energy that leaves our bodies upon death. But, if you've read me before, I don't believe that energy leaves our bodies being able to think, feel, communicate or sense anything and it certainly doesn't take our personality with us. The ego does do all of the things you mention but it IS the purpose.l To overcome it is not the purpose in my opinion as that is done upon death.

BTW, how do you know I don't know the truth? How do you know I haven't sat and meditated for hours upon hours, travelled astrally, delved into the depths of my spirit, etc. etc. to get to my truths? How do you know such things as fact? You speak to me as if I am a child and you are superior to my very being and I know nothing about anything.

And see you've got me all wrong. I don't want to be successful at dissolving my ego for any reason. Because there is no other purpose from my perspective.





[edit on 26-10-2005 by zenlover28]

I can not answer this question as i am not enlightened, i would suggest asking an enlightened being, there for i would say your best best is to ask the Dhala lama, he is the only enlightened person i can think of... i think he meditated on a mountain or something.

Originally posted by zenlover28
And see you've got me all wrong. I don't want to be successful at dissolving my ego for any reason. Because there is no other purpose from my perspective.
[edit on 26-10-2005 by zenlover28]

I totally get you zen, i think there comes a point in each persons enlightenment when they have to make the choice over that ego. and just because you choose the ego over the so known "purity" of the soul, doesnt mean you have lost any chance at enlightenment, it simply means you have a diffirent path to enlighenment

[edit on 26-10-2005 by Becon of Light]

LOL...funny response Becon! I am not enlightened either. I don't believe anyone is. There are those who claim to be, but they're not, IMO.

I opologize Zenlover, I didn't mean to insinuate specification with my reply. I was using "you" loosly. I can sense your depth, but on the issue of ego, I must agree to disagree.

peace,

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I opologize Zenlover, I didn't mean to insinuate specification with my reply. I was using "you" loosly. I can sense your depth, but on the issue of ego, I must agree to disagree.

peace,

No biggie. I can agree to disagree as much as you like! It's what makes the world go around. Thanks for apologizing, but I guess I just read you wrong. That was a kind gesture to apologize.

Peace to you as well.

Originally posted by zenlover28
Ok. But, see I think we are born with an ego.

Does the instincual behaviour we are born with equate with not being able to dissolve the ego?

This leads me to believe that the ego is not false but in fact a major part of a human's wiring as well as animals.

The ego is created by the mind. It is a false mind-made identity. Why false? Because it is not who one truly is. It is based on memory, past events, and needs the future in order to fulfill its desperate need of the next moment. It is not who you are right now, but based on things that have happened, and things that may happen.

To the ego the present moment is always a means to an end. It is always thinking, "When I do this I will be happy, but right now I cannot." It needs the past in order to charge its identity, and the future in order to continually assert it.

When we accept this moment, the ego is no longer there. Only pure, and conscious presence. The only way we can feed the ego, is if we lose the present moment, and identify with a mind-made future situation which the ego uses to feed on.

The ego is continually judging. Everyone you meet, everything you see or smell is labelled by the ego. This labelling is based on past events, and puts a veil of subjectiveness on what is really going on. When we let things be and do not judge them, is how we can leift this veil, and truly see something objectively.

To say it is a false sense of separtism, I can agree with though.

The only way an ego can keep feeding on thoughts of its frequency is with this sense fo separatism. The ego is always desiring to be superior, and has fear of being inferior. The only way it can be superior to something, is if it creates an imaginary line between it and what it is judging. It cannot judge itself, so it must make a line between itself and the rest of the universe.

BTW, how do you know I don't know the truth? How do you know I haven't sat and meditated for hours upon hours, travelled astrally, delved into the depths of my spirit, etc. etc. to get to my truths? How do you know such things as fact?

I don't think anybody knows any of this. If they are suggesting it, then they are judging without reason.

You speak to me as if I am a child and you are superior to my very being and I know nothing about anything.

I think we are all here, because we want to give our opinion. Just because my opinion differs from yours, I do not consider it in any way superior or inferior to your own. We are all here to learn from each other.

Akashic, as I have stated this is only a discussion. We are just discussing. That's it. I could care less if you want to dissolve your ego. That's up to you to decide.

Just because you believe that is what the ego is doesn't make it so. And just because I believe the ego is what causes us to be an individual and as an individual it is our survival tool doesn't make it so, but I believe this just as you believe the Freud psychoanalyzation theory. Just as I believe it does create a false sense of separation. To overcome the ego has no purpose for me. I'm glad it does to you. I'd rather see us all keep our egos and allow them to evolve collectively over time just as they have done since the cave man days. So, if you believe the ego is not a part of our wiring then can you explain why we are born with a sense of feeling separate?

And btw, don't you think judgement is a necessary evil?

[edit on 26-10-2005 by zenlover28]

[edit on 26-10-2005 by zenlover28]

[edit on 26-10-2005 by zenlover28]

Another thing i'd like to mention. Do you not think that children are born with an innate ability to judge things and to categorize them as good and bad? I do.

Originally posted by zenlover28
And btw, don't you think judgement is a necessary evil?

I do not consider judgement as necessary, nor do I consider it evil. I consider it to be something that clouds objectiveness, and takes you out of the present moment.

It is only when we do not label, but rather let things be that we see their essence. To look at something and remain silent not only with the outer tongue, but also with the powerful inner tongue is peace.

Do you not think that children are born with an innate ability to judge things and to categorize them as good and bad?

I do not.

It is my belief that a child is conditioned behaviourally and morally by his experiences after birth.

The child needs to experience pain to realize it is uncomfortable.

The child needs to be told that such behaviour is unacceptable, either through words or actions, in order for them to be conditioned to avoid such behaviour in the future.

I do believe though that children are born with basic instincts like crying, which serve a very important purpose.