Home defense recomendations

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posted on Dec, 12 2005 @ 02:42 PM
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Another point in shotgun's favor is that even in tightly restricted countries - like just about all of the Commonwealth- getting anything more than a shotgun is nigh on impossible. Up here, it's reasonably easy to get one for hunting purposes. However, one of the Liberal Party's big sucker-lines for the election is a handgun ban if they are elected. Also, our rifles have a mandatory maximum magazine capacity of five rounds.

Not every has access to various ordnance. Also, as it is, the sandal-wearing hippies in power would hang you for defending your home and property.

DE




posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by NWguy83
I'd really like to have this for home defense. It's smaller than a P90 but more deadly.

H&K's PDW/MP7

[edit on 12-12-2005 by NWguy83]


I'm pretty sure that uses the same 5.7mm round that the FN Five Seven pistol uses, but maybe not?

I don't think the 5.7mm would be a good choice for home defense because of over penetration issues




"The Five-seveN shoots a 5.7x28mm cartridge. The bullet comes in several different types. Some are not available to civilians but we all know how long that last. The base cartridge for this weapon is the SS190. This bullet Will Perforate 48 layers of Kevlar from 50 meters out of the 5.7 Pistol. This translates into “it will punch through your vest, PLATE included.”


The bullet will then travel into your body and inflict damage. The bullet is traveling at 2,133 fps. That’s about the speed of the bullet coming out of the new carbines we are about to put on the street.

Another unique fact about this weapon is the low recoil and control- ability. The 5.7 only has 60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm. Having shot one personally I compare it to a .22 target pistol. Where this aides the shooter is in his ability to accurately engage targets very quickly. The average shooter can engage man-size targets all day from 50 to 100 yards with a great degree of accuracy. This is only made easier with the fact that the standard magazine in this pistol holds 20 Rounds."



posted on Dec, 13 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by warpboost

Originally posted by NWguy83
I'd really like to have this for home defense. It's smaller than a P90 but more deadly.

H&K's PDW/MP7

[edit on 12-12-2005 by NWguy83]


I'm pretty sure that uses the same 5.7mm round that the FN Five Seven pistol uses, but maybe not?

I don't think the 5.7mm would be a good choice for home defense because of over penetration issues




"The Five-seveN shoots a 5.7x28mm cartridge. The bullet comes in several different types. Some are not available to civilians but we all know how long that last. The base cartridge for this weapon is the SS190. This bullet Will Perforate 48 layers of Kevlar from 50 meters out of the 5.7 Pistol. This translates into “it will punch through your vest, PLATE included.”


The bullet will then travel into your body and inflict damage. The bullet is traveling at 2,133 fps. That’s about the speed of the bullet coming out of the new carbines we are about to put on the street.

Another unique fact about this weapon is the low recoil and control- ability. The 5.7 only has 60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm. Having shot one personally I compare it to a .22 target pistol. Where this aides the shooter is in his ability to accurately engage targets very quickly. The average shooter can engage man-size targets all day from 50 to 100 yards with a great degree of accuracy. This is only made easier with the fact that the standard magazine in this pistol holds 20 Rounds."


Yes the P90 does, but the MP7 uses the 4.6mm .



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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en.wikipedia.org...


Test results (taken from hkpro.com)

* Gelatin block at 50 m. (20 % Gelatin block 300 mm long): 280 mm
* Energy Transfer through armor at 50 m 1.6 mm Titanium + 20 layers of Kevlar 220 joules
* Energy Transfer through armor at 100 m 1.6 mm Titanium + 20 layers of Kevlar 115 joules


Just about the same round. Hardcore penetration, small round. Still going to go right through everything and its mother.

DE



posted on Dec, 14 2005 @ 04:07 AM
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I have decided to come clean. My new AR isn't for home defense, I just wanted to brag about it. But I will brag some more, I went back and switched it for an $1,100 Armalite M-15A4 Carbine on sale for $940 (plus extra 3% off).



posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 07:22 AM
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posted on Nov, 8 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Well something I learned about guns is that they only work when you carry them with you, so I always have a pistol on my hip or within arms reach. The other thing is if you want to make it work the first time, all the time, it takes practice. Get a bunch of reloads, even some light loads and take some time at the range once you get the gun/s. Make sure to train her not to flinch

I usually carry a Glock 23(40S&W) or Taurus 1911(45acp) on my hip or in a shoulder rig with a Taurus Model 851(38special)(around 350 new, less used) on my inside right ankle. I also always have at least one knife as I have a sewn in sheath on each of my holsters.

My GF carries as well and she likes her Glock 23 in 40S&W and her Taurus PT140. (around $400 apiece)She doesn't carry a backup pistol, just a knife and mace. She likes to wear shorts practically year-round, so there isn't really anywhere to hide a spare.

For mid range defense, I'd recommend a Galil rifle. In the case of martial law, the 5.56Nato is going to be the most common round that you can find as it is used by all of our services as well as most of the Nato countries. It does use a different mag than the standard issue for M4 or M16 rifles, but it comes with the adapter for the mag well, so you just have to pop that in and you can use the standard M16 mags. I got mine from J&G Sales in Prescott AZ and I know they usually have several variants of them in stock, and they'll ship to your FFL.

In the house defense I would recommend a pump action 12 gauge shotgun loaded with 00Buckshot. (from $150-500 depending on make and new or used) If it's an unarmed burglar, once he hears that first round racked, he will jump from third story windows to get out of your line of fire. If it's an armed burglar or worse, well that's why you're rocking 8 rounds of 00Buck and have trained with it...right?

Other option is a "coach gun". A side by side break action is useful because in the situation where you have a hostile threat charging, you usually don't have time for more than 2 shots at an oncoming attacker. If your shots don't stop him, throw him the gun as your draw your pistol and shoot him in the head. My local pawn can't keep them in stock longer than a day or two but when they have them(usually a norinco for some reason) they go quick and cheap($75-150)

I just picked up a used glock 23 with 3 mags and a holster and a remington 870 express magnum with sling, speedmaster stock, polychoked hunting barrel, a 18" home defense barrel and 7 round ext mag all for $650 including tax at my local pawn shop. (done with my christmas shopping for my parents!) Seperately they would have cost $1000+tax but because I was buying several items, they shaved off a chunk of the price. They pay next to nothing for them so they can usually make deals. Yeah there is holster wear on the slide, but functionality is what matters.

Spend money to buy guns used at local pawn shops, it keeps the money in the neighborhood longer than buying from wallyworld. At least your purchase of a used gun will allow someone else to sell something to the pawn shop, maybe it will be your next gun!



posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by Netchicken
How about a Sawn-off shotgun?


I second that motion.

A sawed-off or short-barreled pump shotgun would be a good bet. Alternate 00 buck with rifled slugs, as in 1 shot shell, 1 rifled slug, 1 shot shell, 1 rifled slug, etc.

With a pump, the person shooting won't necessarily have to reload.

Read the laws in your area concerning barrel length of shotguns. Most places do not allow a shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches, and AFAIK some don't allow anything less than 18 1/2 inches.

If recoil is a problem, try a .410

[edit on 9-11-2008 by Symbiote]



posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 07:06 PM
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If the wife is going to use, I would recommend a 20 gauge shotgun. If you really want a handgun, I would get a Smith and Wesson model 642 .38 caliber with laser grips from Crimson Trace. My wife has this setup.

Also, the worst thing in the world that can happen to you, is having to use the weapon. Even if you are right and justified, you will have all your guns taken and will most likely be arrested and released. In addition, the assailant's family and or friends may try to hurt you, your family and property. Or worse, bring a civil suit. So what's this got to do with your question? The S&W 642 with Crimson Trace laser has an intimidation factor where the trigger may not have to be pulled once the dot is seen on their body. It is also great for point and shoot, saving a few seconds which could save your life.

Personally, I have a Mossberg 12 gauge w/ pistol grip and tactical flashlight. I also have a permit to carry and carry a sig p220 sas DAK .45 caliber. Or I'll carry a Bersa Thunder Plus .380 semi or Berretta 96 .40 caliber.

Hope this helped.



posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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Here we go again... another post asking for home defense weaponry and the AK and assault rifle nuts come out of the woodwork.


For home defense, you really have two choices - a short-barrel shotgun in a 12 guage (sawed-offs are illegal!) or a hand-gun. Assault rifles are a.) too long b.) over-penetrate and c.) are too costly.

For a shotgun, recoil may be concern for women. Knoxx makes some excellent recoil suppressors from the spec-ops to the cop-stock. For under $400 Mossberg makes an incredible shotgun. I have the 590A - which is exactly the same gun issued the Marines for house-to-house and CQB. IT featues a 20 inch barrell and can hold an ample number of shells. I have outfitted mine with the Spec-ops and a Hogue forend. I would scrap the whole notion of putting a light on it. First, why constantly broadcast your position to an intruder and besides, who needs the extra weight?

A shotgun can also serve as an exellent weapon in the event of law and order breakdown. There is nothing more intimidating than staring fdown the bore of a 12 guage shotgun!

For handguns, I always recommend Sig Sauer. Their motto is "To hell and back reliability!" That is why the DHS, FBI, NSA, CIA, Coast Guard, SEALS, US Marshalls and countless law enforcement choose this as their weapon of choice. I'll get into models in a sec, but let's talk about rounds... For personal defense I'd go with a .40 caliber. More specifically, I'd go with Federal Hydro-shocks. A .40 caliber, according to ballistics tests, has almost all of the kinetic stopping power of a .45. BUT it features a faster muzzle velocity for accuracy and is easier to handle than a .45.

A .45 has too much recoil and will require much more effort on recovery and retargeting. The converse would be the 9mm. Problem with the 9mm is that due to it's smaller projectile and super-high muzzle velocity it has the tendency to over-penetrate, placing family members or neighbors at risk. Also, the 9mm is likely to pass directly through an intruder leaving him standing for long enough for him to squeeze off a few rounds if he's armed.

The .357 is also a good round, but extremely inefficient. While it fetures great stopping power, it is largely inaccurate and has many of the same recoil problems found in the .45. If a .40 is too much for the wife to handle, you might try the .38.

In a handgun, you have two choices - semi-auto or revolver. This is a preference issue as most of the high-end manufacturers have ironed out jamming issues. Sig and Glock being, in my opinion, the most reliable.

Now for models... I have a couple of Sigs all chambered in the .40cal. For the wife and simple HD, I would reccomend the P239. It features a smaller chasis and a single stack magazine which makes the grip smaller and thinner - perfect for smaller hands. This also makes for an outstanding CCW weapon should you be lucky enough to live in a state that allows it. I also have the P226 and the P229. These are full-sized chassis with an alternating magazine which allows for more ammo capacity. These are larger and heavier and will require more time for target acquisition but are more accurate due to a longer barrel. Any pistol you choose should have nite-sights for target acquisition in the dark.

Finally, I selected Sig because they make their handguns with a Double-action/single-action trigger. What does that mean??? It means the gun has no safety which is a good thing! Fully-cocked it only takes about 4 pounds of pressure to pull the trigger. However with the hammer decocked it takes about 10 pounds of pressure to pull the trigger. Either way, it's point and pull! Why is this good? Well, under pressure I cannot count the times I have heard stories about people forgetting to turn off the safety, not be able to find the safety or the safety being jammed in the on position. A safety isn't really "safe." Children can still release a safety a fire a loaded gun. Smart gun owners have either a trigger lock or a gun safe - or both!

Now, put your ego on the shelf for a minute. You don't need laser sights, tactical lights, speed loaders, CQB slings, vented barrels or any other type of decoration. This IS a utility weapon, not an SUV! That junk simply gets in the way and confuses the user. Keep it simple.

Lastly, DO NOT PURCHASE A GUN for home or self defense if you feel that you could not use it if the need arose. It's really easy to say, when you are safe and sound and NOT faced with the decision, that "Yeah, I could kill an intruder!" Disaster strikes when you are in a real-life situation and you realize you can't do it. It's too late then. You have a gun that is probably going to be used against you or the armed intruder freaks that your armed and fills you with holes!

If you do purchase a weapon, enroll in a safe handling course immediately and spend time with an instructor at the range. Become comfortable and familiar with your weapon. Understand how it works, how to clean it and maintain it. Be familiar with it's shooting characteristics such as recoil and accuracy. And also important is to know the laws in your state for safe transport and storage. "I didn't know" is not a defense the police are willing to accept when it comes to firearms.

Good luck with your decision and I hope my post was helpful.



posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by redmage
 


Hey just get a damn mossberg home defense shotgun .... The thing costs 179 dollars and thats all you need.



posted on Nov, 9 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by jkm1864
 


Yeah, I now know.


Keep in mind that I started this thread three years ago (opening post: 10/19/05); however, I did, and do appreciate all the responses that have been given.


Hopefully the thread is still a useful resource for anyone considering a firearm for home defense.

[edit on 11/9/08 by redmage]



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 04:12 AM
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Id go with a mossberg 500 with pistol stock and sawnoff to 18'. For back up, it would be either a .357 or 9mm with hydroshock rds.



posted on Nov, 14 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by redmage
 

If recoil is something you wish to by pass, I would think a nice 20 gauge or a 410. The 410 how ever is not something I my self would use. Nor would I want it for my lady. I have a 357 and she has a 38spe.

In a 20 I would go for an auto loader. Hope this helps



posted on Dec, 3 2008 @ 07:28 AM
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Good morning.

I agree with the shotgunners. For the price range, effect, and ease of handling. You cant go wrong. Your local sporting goods store usually has a mossberg 500 seriesfor less than $300.00 for 12guage. a .410 also isnt bad easier to control with lighter loads so its good for the woman in the house. From 3-9 rounds depending on modle. No handgun wait period. Like the guy said get a tac-light or laser for an added edge or ease of aim not that you cant point shoot a scattergun. And theres always a good double barrel coach gun, so you have two shots at the ready before any relaod needed, also available in .410 / 12ga. Or theres the lever action shotguns usually at the cowboy shooting type stores.



posted on Dec, 4 2008 @ 08:00 AM
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There are MP-5's that shoot standard .22 rounds they cost around 300 bucks.........I bought 4. why i dont know but cmon why not? ill post a link to the site for them.





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