Home defense recomendations

Remington 870P max 12 gauge. It's got all the tactical goodies for home defense:

dedicated fore-end sure-fire light( extremely bright flashlight built in to front grip)
magazine extension
ghost-ring sights
pistol grip stock.

Depending on location, this gun could run you between 600-700 dollars.

A twelve gauge is very versatile in ammo selection (shot or slug), also, less lethal forms of ordnance are now available to the public (i.e. bean bags).

Being from Massachusetts-where I could lose my house if I shoot someone during a home invasion, a high-velocity bean bag is a sensible option.

Hopefully, being totally illuminated while in ear shot of the unmistakeable tchick-tchick of a shell being chambered, the unlucky idiot who decided an invitation wasn't necessary to enter my house will conclude that he/she made a big mistake.

I know it's more than you want to spend, but a little extra money would be worth it in the long run.

Originally posted by jehova620
Ban all guns except for Police and Forces.
Get a dog that barks a lot.
No one gets killed.
How easy can it be.
I seriously dont envy you guys in America having gun weilding idiots roaming the streets.
Complete ban - the only way forward.

Take the politics somewhere else. You want to get killed in your sleep, that's your bussiness. The rest of us realize that like coc aine, guns will find their way into criminal hands regardless of prohibition.

DE

If recoil is an issue, Federal and Remington both make tactical loads with a 45% reduction in average recoil. I've shot the Federal in both oo/ buckshot and rifled slug and there is a significant difference compared to other loads.
One thing to remember, when choosing a weapon for home defense, collateral damage is a BIG issue. You don't want a round blasting through your neighbor's house, or your neighbor for that matter. Unless you plan on buying frangible ammo, a shot gun is the way to go. I also own a .45 ACP, but that is strictly back up for the 'gauge.

I recently spent a few hours on the range with my friends CZ75 compact. In my opinion it is an excellent home defense weapon, not quite as good as a shotgun, but in my opinion the .40 bullet will be better in a pistol than 9mm.

It's recoil was hardly there, which was surprising in a .40 with a short barrell. I could have shot it all day, and the 3 dot sights made it extremely easy to shoot accurately.

world.guns.ru...

You can get it in washington for a little over $500.



Personally I have this for my home protection. $477 after taxes.

www.springfield-armory.com...

It's hard to deny the stopping power of a .45. They tend to stop someone in their tracks. My main problem with a 9mm for home defense is that someone really determined could take a few rounds and still be able to hurt you or shoot back.

[edit on 19-10-2005 by LeftBehind]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Heres our home defense

img403.imageshack.us...

[edit on 19-10-2005 by ShadowXIX]

Ya, , I'd say you're covered there.

I like to keep all my bases covered

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
I like to keep all my bases covered

And the outfield, dugouts, stands, scoreboard, parking lot.......

Originally posted by nightbreid
Remington 870P max 12 gauge.

This seems to be for police/military use.

Is it available to the general public as well? Legally I mean

Depends where you are. I know that I can buy 'rinco (YAY CANADA) and get decent home protection for half of what Americans would pay, and have stuff that's typically not allowed to you either. Take for example a norinco remington knockoff, 14 inch barrel:

www.marstar.ca...

I've fired one, and while it did have some issues, I found it to be an excellent weapon all in all.

However, I know that the 870P is strictily off-limits to civvies up here. Odd, odd legislation.

DE

Originally posted by TheSaddenedElf
MCory1, I've always been told that if some one is in your house and is threatening your life, that you should shoot to kill. I've even been told this by police officers. If the intruder is threatening you with a weapon and you kill them you most likely won't be charged with anything because it's self-defense. I don't know if this is particularly true everywhere, but if someone busts up in my home and are endangering my life and the lives of my family, no questions asked, I'm taking them down any way I can.

Oh, that's what I've heard myself, and I'd have every intentions of doing so as well. But there's two reasons I mention it like that. For one, at 3am, scared stiff from hearing strange noises in my house, no lights on and I know everyone that should be in the house is accounted for, I really doubt I'm going to be able to get that head shot. I'll most likely get a good body shot in, I know that, and it should be enough to stop someone. It might kill them, it might not, depends on the load and how it bounces.

The second reason I mention that is because redmage is concerned about recoil, and lower caliber weapons have less recoil. They also have less stopping power, so you might not get that kill shot. But--if accuracy isn't an issue--you can eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) a threat without killing them quite easily. Groin, kneecaps, a good gut shot, all quite vulnerable and debilitating targets for a low power weapon like a .22.

Again though, I completely agree with you on the shoot-to-kill method, even if there were legal issues with it--I'd much rather have to go to jail for killing someone trying to break in to my house than take the chance on it being a murderer or rapist. Better to wake up in a cell for something you feel was right when the alternative may have been to not wake up again.

I heard that Kimber makes really good handguns.

[edit on 20-10-2005 by NWguy83]

LeftBehind
9mm Parabellum knocks out every assaulter when you use the right ammo, stay away from military FMJs and use some Speer Gold dots instead..
Finnish police mainly uses Glock 17s with Gold dot ammo, never heard of anyone taking more than 2 hits to down (all that required more than one shot were high on something)
To a unexperienced shooter I'd recomend either 9mm glock, CZ or Tanfoglio...
For a more experienced shooter .40 cal versions and if money isn't an issue a Sig in .357Sig

And if you are getting a revolver get a 4inch barrel, it's easier to point and aim and has lower recoil than snubnoses..

Ps. AK in 7.62x39 has really low recoil, hardly notiseable, just stay away from AKSUs

I disagree about the 9mm.

Here's a great article about stopping power.

www.gunblast.com...

The 9mm isn’t ok. Tell the fellow who took four 9mm soft point bullets and still managed to inflict a nasty wound that remains with me to this day, and gives my face ‘character’.

The .38 isn’t enough. I once shot a fellow in the lower leg who debated with me whether he had been hit at all until the blood ran from his shoe - then he commenced whimpering and crying.

I once took not the traditional icepick but thank God a nutpicker in the leg. It didn’t go in very far but instantly floored me. The shock to my system completely locked up my knee and thigh muscles. Yet, I did not even require stitches.

I once fired a single .45 caliber hardball round on the move, quickly, and the effect on the target, struck in the ribs, was immediate. All motion ceased - and he fully recovered within a few weeks.

Couldnt resist, another quote from the same site.

Adequate for battle? Hardly. (The 9mm man will always say, ‘You used the wrong load. Why, the FILL IN THE BLANK will get the job done.’ They never seem willing to admit the caliber was the problem.)

[edit on 20-10-2005 by LeftBehind]

Like others have said I would get a shotgun

The Remington 870 or a Mosberg 500 are good choices or if you want to spend more money look into a SPAS 12 or Benelli M4

I live in european country where most people dont own firearms. Legally. Some have even WWII weapons, like PPsH-71 or MP-40. Isn't it a good home protection? Pretty mobile, large clip, and auto fire makes up for lack of 9m power. Also need to mention that these machine pistols have longer barrels than some of today's MP's and pistols.

I heard some 9mm loads are sufficient enough to take some one out.

Since recoil in a 9mm is usually quite low, I think my first pistol will be a .40cal just in case.

Since most people can't shoot handguns worth a toss, arguing about caliber is pointless because what REALLY matters is where you put the bullet, not how big or fast it is.

As for caliber, with modern hollowpoints there is very little real world difference between 9mm, .357 SiG, .40S&W, .45ACP, and .45GAP (new kid on the block).

9mm has a one shot stop percentage of the low 90's for a center of mass hit with a modern high performance hollowpoint, it's cheaper to practice with, has lower recoil, and higher capacity for the same size of gun. It is the perfect choice for the vast majority of shooters, but many will still get a wrist cannon which they can't shoot properly and yet somehow consider themselves better armed - and they are not.

As for the original question of home defence, suggesting AKs and M4s is a bad idea unless you really hate your neighbors - a 123gr 7.62x39mm FMJ will happily glide right through the average burglar, then the average house, and right on into the average neighbors kid. It has happened, several times.

Shotguns are perfect, and you don't need OO Buck either. At house contact ranges, even birdshot(#8 or #9) is devastating out of a 12 gauge.

A high capacity full size 9mm backed up by a Remington 870 or similar is a perfectly adequate set up for anything less than an invasion by the Mongol hordes.

Of equal importance is the need for a good tactical light and night sights, you must always be able to see what you're shooting at, these should also be mounted on your weapon/s as opposed to hand held.

If I only had collected a dime for every person I had seen at the range with a thousand dollar .45ACP that they couldn't hit an elephant's butt with, I would now be living next door to Bill Gates.

Originally posted by jehova620
Ban all guns except for Police and Forces.
...I seriously dont envy you guys in America having gun weilding idiots roaming the streets.
Complete ban - the only way forward.

I live in the U.K where handguns have been banned since 1996 (not including stupid 12" barrel revolvers etcetera) and firearms are very restricted.
What has this achieved?

Crime was not supposed to rise after handguns were banned in 1997. Yet, since 1996 the serious violent crime rate has soared by 69%: robbery is up by 45% and murders up by 54%. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels.

The 2000 International Crime Victimization Survey, the last survey done, shows the violent-crime rate in England and Wales was twice the rate in the U.S. When the new survey for 2004 comes out, that gap will undoubtedly have widened even further as crimes reported to British police have since soared by 35%, while declining 6% in the U.S.

Source: www.tsra.com...

You have to remember that criminals (Obviously) do not abide by the law, so to expect them to say "Oh hey, handguns are illegal now so I better not go buy one on the blackmarket!" is a little short-sighted.

Captain Sensible - you chose a perfect screen name, couldn't have said it better myself.

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. The UK is finding out about that one the hard way.

Pity - there are obviously some good people over there.

On the topic of home defence...anyone know any good places to get tactical gear on the cheap? Lights, webbing, holsters, etc.

I don't know about you, but sticking a loaded gun down my pyjama pants doesn't sound too bright, nor does putting down your weapon for any reason. Slings, tactical lights, belts/holsters seem like things to own.

DE