It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Spain orders arrest of US troops

page: 2
0
<< 1   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 06:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe the US has signed the treaty which would allow it soldiers to be tried under the UN or any other country for that matter, so once again it's a ridicules arrest order.
Not really, they wont be allowed to go to Europe or any country that has a treaty to exchange wanted criminals.

Its also bringing yet more murder from US troops out in the open rather than sweep it under the carpet like the US government wants to.




posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 09:05 PM
link   

Its also bringing yet more murder from US troops out in the open rather than sweep it under the carpet like the US government wants to.


Really? I highly doubt a biased court order from country clearly opposed to the US government is bringing anything to light except their own hated for us.



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 09:32 PM
link   
This incident happened the day before Baghdad was captured which puts it right in the middle of the heaviest fighting. A tank squadron commander might know that there are journalist in a certain building, but to the individual commander that specific tank the threat was real. Most likely, they were ordered to shoot at a target on the building by a combat control officer. They probably didn't just randomly shoot their main gun for no reason. The troops in the tank had every right to believe that there was a real threat at that moment. Find out who was coordinating the attack on that building. Who order the aircraft fire on the building as well? It wasn't the tank commander. That would be your guilty party, but then they only know what their being told by their intelligence.

Wasn't their another incident of a Reuters cameraman being shot by a tank a few months after that incident? I believe the tank gunner thought his camera was a RPG or anti-tank missile. What would you think if some unknown person placed a large object on their shoulder and pointed it at you?


cjf

posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 09:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by Flyer
Its also bringing yet more murder from US troops out in the open rather than sweep it under the carpet like the US government wants to.


Pity…. Spain should show such bias as France is just a bit north with plenty of war crimes and genocide to go around for the next century all the while telling Europe the EU warrants issued against persons inside her own borders are ‘not valid’.

Spain is rapidly becoming unbecoming.

.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 04:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by cjf
Pity…. Spain should show such bias as France is just a bit north with plenty of war crimes and genocide to go around for the next century all the while telling Europe the EU warrants issued against persons inside her own borders are ‘not valid’.

...And now Everybody that said NO to the Bushes "Order" to join the Coalition of the Willing is a traitor and a war criminal, huh? Just like there is no more French Fries anymore, but freedom fries, huh? Spain and France - the Enemies of the Free World!

I don't see them having Prison Camps scattered all over the Globe, where they perform Torture, Abuse and other Acts, which are in direct contradicition of the International Law and Geneva Conventios.

I don't see them using Depleted Uranium ammunition, which are in direct contradiction with the Geneva Conventions.

I don't see them enabling Patriot Acts, I and II, which are stripping away Human and Civil Right of the so-called "Democratic" People.

I don't see them Illegaly Invading foreign Countries.

I don't see them using Lies and Deception to find and Excuse for the Invasion of foreign Countries

I don't see them Planning these Invasion even prior to the attacks on the 9-11.

All I see is two nations that really do not want any more Trouble that this "War on Terror" has brought to the West. Why should they pay the price for this Mad Mans Goals?


cjf

posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 10:40 AM
link   

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by cjf
Pity…. Spain should show such bias as France is just a bit north with plenty of war crimes and genocide to go around for the next century all the while telling Europe the EU warrants issued against persons inside her own borders are ‘not valid’.

-[snip]-

Originally posted by Souljah
...And now Everybody that said NO to the Bushes "Order" to join the Coalition of the Willing is a traitor and a war criminal, huh?


No, I am ‘pointing-out’ that hypocrisy has more than one face, not just the US’s.

I used France as an example ‘in hypocrisies’ as a culprit and Spain as ‘complicit’ to support my point and by no means is France and Spain the only living examples.


Originally posted by Souljah
Just like there is no more French Fries anymore, but freedom fries, huh? Spain and France - the Enemies of the Free World!

Not quite sure where you got this from (not my post), but I currently live in the US and ate ‘French Fries’ yesterday.


Originally posted by Souljah
I don't see them having Prison Camps scattered all over the Globe, where they perform Torture, Abuse and other Acts, which are in direct contradicition of the International Law and Geneva Conventios.
-[snip]-
I don't see them Illegaly Invading foreign Countries.
-[snip]-
I don't see them using Lies and Deception to find and Excuse for the Invasion of foreign Countries


You are kidding right!

One reason why I used France as a culpable example: France’s associative involvement in the Genocide of 800,000 in Rwanda: (one example, many available if you search)



Rwandan government officials claim that new proof of France's role in the 1994 Rwanda genocide has emerged during the UN's Rwanda court hearings. Not only was France training the genocidal militias prior to the genocide, the French government was even today providing perpetrators of the genocide a refuge. France has earlier been criticised by a European court for not trying genocide suspects......

(Link) to full article


More search material:

France and…the Ivory Coast, Algeria, economic rape of ‘former’ colonies, history of torture, rape and indiscriminate summary executions, protection of large foreign corporations (eg. The CFAO Group, The Castel Group, Dagris, Total, Bollore…), suppression of indigenous populations, interference in civil wars on and on and on …..

Take the blinders off and stop focusing on the United States for a while; you may see a whole wide world of atrocities being committed by… ‘other than US’.


Originally posted by Souljah
I don't see them Planning these Invasion even prior to the attacks on the 9-11.

You really should ‘read-up’ on Frances role/events surrounding the Ivory Coast.


Originally posted by Souljah
I don't see them enabling Patriot Acts, I and II, which are stripping away Human and Civil Right of the so-called "Democratic" People.


Do they really need to add to what is already upon their books?
France, the Search for Justice


Originally posted by Souljah
All I see is two nations that really do not want any more Trouble that this "War on Terror" has brought to the West. Why should they pay the price for this Mad Mans Goals?


Really? To my point: All I see is one nation which has been/is blatantly guilty of international crimes and potential international crimes for decade after decade and another nation which chooses to ignore these acts yet continues to attack the United States. Very similar to your posts.

By Spain ignoring France's crimes, does she become complicit in these acts? Since Spain feels the need to issue ‘international’ warrants, deny legal basis to EU warrants; yet only currently focuses on the United States…. what standard is she really setting? None, Spain is making a political statement.

Does the 'actions' of the US obsolve any and all nations of thier own responsibilities? Or, do the US 'actions' act as a convieniant smoke screen to continue internaional crimes and policies against humanity by shifting focus?

France enforcing international law?
This should be close to home.

Again, I am ‘pointing-out’ that hypocrisy has more than one face, not just the US’s.


.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:36 AM
link   

Originally posted by cjf
No, I am ‘pointing-out’ that hypocrisy has more than one face, not just the US’s.

Agreed.

But current US administration has proved that they are the Masters of Hypochrisy and Masters of breaking International Laws and Conventions. Much more then France and Spain combined.



Not quite sure where you got this from (not my post), but I currently live in the US and ate ‘French Fries’ yesterday.

Remember the "Good Old Days" when France said NO to Bush and French Fries were REnames to Freedom Fries? No French Wine to Buy?



One reason why I used France as a culpable example: France’s associative involvement in the Genocide of 800,000 in Rwanda: (one example, many available if you search)

I think you used France for more then just this Reason.

But lets take a Look at Rwanda Genocide for a Minute:

On October 1, 1990 RPF forces invaded Rwanda from their base in neighbouring Uganda. The rebel force, composed primarily of Tutsis, blamed the government for failing to democratize and resolve the problems of some 500,000 Tutsi refugees living in diaspora around the world.

There is some evidence suggesting US approval of the RPF's invasion:

  • Training provided for Kagame and other RPF officers at Fort Leavenworth immediately prior to and during their invasion from Uganda is officially acknowledged.
  • Specific training in Surface-to-air missile deployment is alleged, alongside claims that the US supplied the SAM missiles used to kill Habyarimana. [2]
  • Two Ugandan emissaries were briefly charged in 1992 with attempting illegally to purchase TOW missiles [3] in Orlando, Florida — formerly a distribution hub of TOW weapons in the Iran-Contra affair.
  • US and UK diplomacy apparently did nothing to halt the destabilising RPF invasion until June 1993 [4], by which time a stalemate had in any case been reached.
  • Doubts were raised [5] about the handling by UN investigators of a black box thought to be from Habyarimana's plane, which was lost at UN headquarters for 10 years. The black box was later determined to be unrelated to that crash. [6]
  • American reluctance to permit an effective UN intervention, a matter of record [7], may be portrayed as permitting the RPF an opportunity to seize the territory.

en.wikipedia.org...

So, as you see, France was not the Only one invovled in this Geoncide.



More search material:

France and…the Ivory Coast, Algeria, economic rape of ‘former’ ole wide world of atrocities being committed...

-SNIP-

Want me to start digging some more Dirt?

Want me to start with the Central American Campaign during the Reagan Years? The Iran-Contra Affair? Now that was a Sweet Deal, huh? President Ronald Reagan's administration sold arms to Iran, an avowed enemy - and with that Money Founded the Contras. Reagan also funded groups in Afganistan - the Mujahideen. This administration had Support of many widely Condemned and Bloody regimes, including apartheid-era South Africa, the Pinochet military junta in Chile, and the Suharto regime in Indonesia. One opponent was East Timorese Nobel Peace Prize recipient Jose Ramos-Horta:

"Reagan, like Carter, ignored the rights of black South Africans who languished under a system of institutionalized terrorism and racism; the widespread and systematic use of torture in Chile and Guatemala. They not only ignored, but actively supported the mass murder of Timorese women, men, and children, orchestrated by their friend and ally, General Suharto of Indonesia. Under Carter, there were crocodile tears for the oppressed; under Reagan, there hasn't even been a pretence of concern for those in Timor, Chile, Paraguay, South Africa."

France is just a Small Fishy in the Ocean, where USA is a BIG BAD SHARK, that eats all the small Fishes, and really does not give a Damn about anything or anyone but their own Purposes, whatever they might be. Sometimes Terrorism and Racism is Bad and Attacked, but most of the time it's ignored and ontop, Supported!

And Today USA is the Only remaining Superpower, and without any Real Threats - like Russia in the Cold war days - it can not remain a Superpower for much longer. So the NEW Threat of Terrorism is introduced. And it is Very Effective. It works all the time. People are constantly Afraid. I can call up to the Airport and say, there is a Bomb, and the Airport would get evacuated and searched for the bomb. Fear works.

Professor Noam Chomsky on terrorism:

"One is the fact that terrorism works. It doesn't fail. It works. Violence usually works. That's world history. Secondly, it's a very serious analytic error to say, as is commonly done, that terrorism is the weapon of the weak. Like other means of violence, it's primarily a weapon of the strong, overwhelmingly, in fact. It is held to be a weapon of the weak because the strong also control the doctrinal systems and their terror doesn't count as terror. Now that's close to universal. I can't think of a historical exception, even the worst mass murderers view the world that way. So take the Nazis. They weren't carrying out terror in occupied Europe. They were protecting the local population from the terrorisms of the partisans. And like other resistance movements, there was terrorism. The Nazis were carrying out counter terror."

And to Fight this terrorism, your president is preprared to remove some of basic human and civil rights and to break some of international laws and conventions. Why is THAT not Terror? What is THAT not Terrorism? Today the only terrorists are supposed to be Muslims, and by doing that, Bush has started not an anti-terrorist war, but a war of religions, a modern crusade.

"Bring it on!"


cjf

posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 11:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by cjf
No, I am ‘pointing-out’ that hypocrisy has more than one face, not just the US’s.

Agreed.

But current US administration has proved that they are the Masters of Hypochrisy and Masters of breaking International Laws and Conventions. Much more then France and Spain combined.


To my point again:


Originally posted by cjf
Does the 'actions' of the US absolve any and all nations of their own responsibilities? Or, do the US 'actions' act as a convenient smoke screen to continue international crimes and policies against humanity by shifting focus?


Now you are using the US as a basic ‘smoke screen’ thus avoiding the ‘other nations’ involvement in atrocities and shifting attention back to the United States.

This is all too common though-out the media.


Originally posted by Souljah
Remember the "Good Old Days" when France said NO to Bush and French Fries were REnames to Freedom Fries? No French Wine to Buy?


You have been reading too much anti-US/anti-France propaganda. I travel all over the US. With the exception maybe of a few (very, very few) businesses this didn’t happen ‘as depicted’. But if its ‘anti-US’ it reads, right?


Originally posted by Souljah
I think you used France for more then just this Reason.


No, both nations cited serve to establish a point of hypocrisy.


Originally posted by Souljah
There is some evidence suggesting US approval of the RPF's invasion:


Again, the US is not being blamed by the regional leadership nor is it being investigated by the UN and nor is an international tribunal being assembled to try the criminals for these crimes. “Some evidence suggesting” really amounts to nothing.


Originally posted by Souljah
So, as you see, France was not the Only one invovled in this Geoncide.


Here we go. Back to fingering the US instead of fingering other culprits.

Based on your posted information, US involvement in the ‘Rwandan Genocide’ is not concrete and is rather assumptive.

Again, you are making my point: other nations contribute to and commit international crimes/atrocities and the world buys the ‘well look at the US’ bit to throw-out a smoke screen and redirect blame.


Originally posted by Souljah
Want me to start digging some more Dirt?


No, you have sufficiently made my point.

‘Smoke screen 101’ as follows:

Redirect topic.


Originally posted by Souljah
Want me to start with the Central American Campaign during the Reagan Years? The Iran-Contra Affair? Now that was a Sweet Deal, huh? President Ronald Reagan's administration sold arms to Iran, an avowed enemy - and with that Money Founded the Contras. Reagan also funded groups in Afganistan - the Mujahideen. This administration had Support of many widely Condemned and Bloody regimes, including apartheid-era South Africa, the Pinochet military junta in Chile, and the Suharto regime in Indonesia. One opponent was East Timorese Nobel Peace Prize recipient Jose Ramos-Horta:


…Reinforced by classic Chomsky spin!: (nice touch)


Originally posted by Souljah
…..Professor Noam Chomsky on terrorism:

…So take the Nazis. They weren't carrying out terror in occupied Europe…. They were protecting the local population from the terrorisms of the partisans….
…The Nazis were carrying out counter terror.


…all merely to change the subject back to US only and avoid the entire subject of atrocities performed by nations and international laws broken by ‘other than US’. Move all accusations concerning ‘other than US’ to focus solely on the US.


Originally posted by Souljah
And to Fight this terrorism, your president is preprared to remove some of basic human and civil rights and to break some of international laws and conventions. Why is THAT not Terror? What is THAT not Terrorism?


Case and point.

We have now moved completely over ‘France and Spain as hypocrites’, redirected the attention solely to the United States and ignored any crimes by ‘other than US’.

Again.


Originally posted by cjf
.... do the US 'actions' act as a convenient smoke screen to continue international crimes and policies against humanity by shifting focus?


Hmmmm...


.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 05:26 AM
link   
no matter what the outcome
its the impact of the accusation and the charge that counts

Many countries have begun to show hostility towards the US, and
the personnel serving their government. The only direction this
hostility can go is further into the red with their current course of
action.

We can go on all day about Spain, but what this is really a sign of is the
bigger picture, this trend throughout Europe and the world. The gov'ts
of the world can see the great power crumbling, and as that power disappears,
so does the fear(Europe's fear of the US). When that is completely gone, thats when sum sh*t is gonna go down.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 08:18 AM
link   

Originally posted by benign
Many countries have begun to show hostility towards the US, and
the personnel serving their government. The only direction this
hostility can go is further into the red with their current course of
action.


I don't see the U.S making any point to resolve the hostility towards them but instead they ignore it and keep on going. I won't be surprise if something major would explode against the U.S and her foreign policy by the international community.

[edit on 23/10/05 by Heartagram]



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 08:50 AM
link   

Originally posted by cjf
Now you are using the US as a basic ‘smoke screen’ thus avoiding the ‘other nations’ involvement in atrocities and shifting attention back to the United States.

Actually you are using Spain and France as a Smoke Screen in this thread, which has an actual Topic of Spain orders arrest of US troops. We are talking about US, not Spain or France. Basicly you are diverting the talk from the topic iteself - and suddenly you start to talk about me and my so-called "anti-american agenda".



You have been reading too much anti-US/anti-France propaganda.

And what have you been reading?

Anti France / Spanish propaganda?



No, both nations cited serve to establish a point of hypocrisy.

The Champion of Hypochrisy is the United States - can you Deny that?



Again, the US is not being blamed by the regional leadership nor is it being investigated by the UN and nor is an international tribunal being assembled to try the criminals for these crimes. “Some evidence suggesting” really amounts to nothing.

Are you sure?
Are you aware how many times the US has broken the International Laws and Conventions by Abducting foreign citizens in the name of "War on Terrorism"? Italy, France, Germany have all that problem, but the CIA and the USA do not hear them. Just like they did not hear them in the time of Nicaragua-USA Affair. It's all the same as Today. USA is Above the Law and whatever they do, it does NOT even resemble Terrorism - but whatever "Other" people do (especially those A-rabs) is considered an Act of Terrorism. Well Spain wants to come to the Bottom of this Affar - what is the US gonna do?



Again, you are making my point: other nations contribute to and commit international crimes/atrocities and the world buys the ‘well look at the US’ bit to throw-out a smoke screen and redirect blame.

Yes they do. The Problem here is that the US is playing the Role of the "World Cop" and tells other nations what's Right and what's Wrong. The US have invaded Foreign Countries on basis of Lies and Deceptions, that they were breaking Laws and Conventions, when in Fact the US are breaking them. The US are conducting Torture and Abuses right infront of the Eyes of the World, and nobody can do anything about it. The US are using Banned Weapons on Civilan population and nobody does anything against it. The US is kidnapping foreign citizens, and nobody does anything against it.



‘Smoke screen 101’ as follows:

Redirect topic.

Your entire Post is a Smoke Screen, just to Divert the Attention from the Topic of this Thread somewhere else - like me.

Typcal.



cjf

posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 01:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by cjf
Now you are using the US as a basic ‘smoke screen’ thus avoiding the ‘other nations’ involvement in atrocities and shifting attention back to the United States.

Actually you are using Spain and France as a Smoke Screen in this thread, which has an actual Topic of Spain orders arrest of US troops. We are talking about US, not Spain or France. Basicly you are diverting the talk from the topic iteself - and suddenly you start to talk about me and my so-called "anti-american agenda".


Spain is part of the topic and France was an example, to my point, of Spain’s hypocrisy and obvious attempt merely to make a political statement.


Originally posted by Souljah
And what have you been reading?

Anti France / Spanish propaganda?


No.


Originally posted by Souljah
The Champion of Hypochrisy is the United States - can you Deny that?


Yes. A simple review of the international community’s history over the past 70 (give or take a few) years should do.


Originally posted by cjf

Originally posted by Souljah
Again, the US is not being blamed by the regional leadership nor is it being investigated by the UN and nor is an international tribunal being assembled to try the criminals for these crimes. “Some evidence suggesting” really amounts to nothing.

Are you sure?


Yes, the US is not being accused of the genocide in Rwanda.


Originally posted by Souljah
Well Spain wants to come to the Bottom of this Affar - what is the US gonna do?


A few problems, these are highlights:

1. A known fact that Iraqi spotterswere using the building.

2. CNN indicated that the Hotel was surrounded by Saddam Fedayeen
(link to transcript)

3. The ‘international media’ has already tried the case and found them guilty, How can these men get a fair trial in Spain?
Trial 1
Trial 2
(I am sure there are others)

4. These journalists were 'embedded', in a war zone, and signed waivers like this .

5. If Spain was that concerned over the wrongful deaths of journalist, why did she not issue an arrest warrant for the Spanish journalist Julio Anguita Parrado killed by Iraqi insurgents the very next day???? (oops).

7. The US investigated according to appropriate law and inquery.

8. Spain’s actions and inactions are hypocritical. (without using France! As an example)


Originally posted by Souljah
Yes they do. The Problem here is that the US is playing the Role of the "World Cop" and tells other nations what's Right and what's Wrong.


Spain is not the “World’s Court”

Judging by their use of courts to make poor/obvious political statements should never attempt nor be allowed to assume this position.

One more reason for the US to not join the ICC and keep pushing Article 95.....


Originally posted by Souljah
Your entire Post is a Smoke Screen, just to Divert the Attention from the Topic of this Thread somewhere else - like me.

Typcal.


I am far from being personal, you often make very good points, but perhaps facts occasionally get in the way of a 'leaning US hate' and belief in propaganda from time to time, No?


.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1   >>

log in

join