I was watching a documentary last night on the Pyramids and right on cue, after someone suggested the allignment to Orion and the unusual Sarcophagus in the Kings Chamber (I think), Mr Hawas appeared to completely slam any differing opinion other than his own. And the other guy who suggested the Orion allignment was only suggesting that the Pharoahs wanted to point to those stars to reach the afterlife (no aliens or anything...before Byrd jumps down my throat)

He does it all the time and, to be honest, his continuing obstructing of potential digs and excavations that could teach us so much more really piss me off. Combine that with the fact he is charge of Egyptology (in Egypt, no less) and you get a very limiting atmosphere when studying them.

We have radar/sonar soundings of chambers under the Sphinx. Combine that withe legends of a "hall of records" buried there and you'd think that any Egyptologist would at least have a peek. But he wont hear of it. Same with the mysterious hidden chambers in the Pyramid. He won't allow any exploration to take place.

The bloke is either so entrenched in his views he is not willing to contemplate he may be even slightly less knowledgable than he thinks he is, or he is hiding something.

In short...I hate the guy and as soon as he is retired/dead, the better for Egyptology all round.



[edit on 19/10/05 by stumason]

"Amazingly, that arch-enemy of all pyramidiots, Dr Zahi Hawass - who since 1987 has been in the powerful position of Director of the Giza Plateau and who was recently promoted to Undersecretary of State for the Giza monuments - was also put through his training as an Egyptologist by ARE." (p63)

"Hawass has maintained his association with ARE ever since, and is a regular lecturer at their conferences at their Virginia Beach headquarters." (p63)

"It is hard to know the nature of anyone's true affiliation in this story, but we have already seen that Zahi Hawass is closely associated with ARE. He also has connections with another esoteric organisation that sets great store by the existence of hidden chambers at Giza, having been in the 1980s a consultant to and frequent lecturer at AMORC's Museum of Egyptology in San Jose, California." (p100)

Quotes above from The Stargate Conspiracy, Lynn Pickett & Clive Prince (1999).

ARE is the Association for Research and Enlightenment, founded by Edgar Cayce, in 1931.

AMORC is the Ancient and Mystic Order Rosae Crucis, founded in the 1920s by Harvey Spencer Lewis, who also claimed to have inside knowledge of tunnels and chambers on the Giza Plateau.

I hope that casts some light on the matter.

[edit on 19-10-2005 by kungfoo]

Perhaps he's so staunch because the Orion theory has no real supporting evidence. I don't know if you know any archaeologists, but I do. They're very fact oriented.

You can manipulate data (count only some pyramids; not others, flip the star charts, gloss over the fact that to the Egyptians, Orion was NOT a single constellation but rather two unrelated constellations, etc) to "prove" it. But this doesn't make it true. There are no documents/prayers/temple inscriptions that we would expect to support the Orion "theory."

So he's telling you what the data is. The "Orion theory" people are hiding data from you.

Originally posted by Byrd
Perhaps he's so staunch because the Orion theory has no real supporting evidence. I don't know if you know any archaeologists, but I do. They're very fact oriented.

You can manipulate data (count only some pyramids; not others, flip the star charts, gloss over the fact that to the Egyptians, Orion was NOT a single constellation but rather two unrelated constellations, etc) to "prove" it. But this doesn't make it true. There are no documents/prayers/temple inscriptions that we would expect to support the Orion "theory."

So he's telling you what the data is. The "Orion theory" people are hiding data from you.

I knew the orion thing was a bad example......And I knew you would point it out. I am well aware of the differing sides of opinion on that and I am not siding with the Alien Pyramid builder guys, even though the story is interesting.

My main bug bear with him is that he will not allow an excavation that may prove that, say, the Sphinx is not of Egyption origin.

Erosion on it could only have been caused by rainfall from over 10,000 years ago (the last time that part of the world had any sustained significant rainfall). That is geological fact.

There are chambers under the Sphinx but he will not allow excavation. There is a shaft in the Pyramid with a chamber behind it, but he will not allow it to be explored.

The guy is git.

[edit on 19/10/05 by stumason]

Originally posted by stumason
Erosion on it could only have been caused by rainfall from over 10,000 years ago (the last time that part of the world had any sustained significant rainfall). That is geological fact.

Dr Robert Schoch of Boston University concluded that the Sphinx and it's enclosure wall were exposed to rainfall between 5000 and 7000 BC. Not over 10,000 years at all.

Originally posted by stumason
There are chambers under the Sphinx but he will not allow excavation. There is a shaft in the Pyramid with a chamber behind it, but he will not allow it to be explored.

There are reports and evidence that indicate excavations and explorations are or have been undertaken without public disclosure. Google Thomas Danley or Larry Dean Hunter for more info, as these two people witnessed signs of such excavation.

EDIT: These are the dates of rainy periods (pluvials) in Egypt's history:

120,000-90,000 BC - Abbassia Pluvial
50,000-30,000 BC - Mousterian Pluvial
7000-2500 BC - Neolithic Subpluvial

Source: Hoffman, Egypt before the Pharoahs, 1980


[edit on 19-10-2005 by kungfoo]

Dr Robert Schoch of Boston University concluded that the Sphinx and it's enclosure wall were exposed to rainfall between 5000 and 7000 BC. Not over 10,000 years at all.

5000-7000 years BC is still well ahead of Egypt (mostly around 2500BC onwards).

Plus, adding on the 2005 years since BC, that would make it 7000-9000 years ago. So not that far off 10,000 years at all.

Besides, i was quoting the ball park figure for the end of the last Ice Age.

When quoting ballpark figures, few will follow it up with a "that is fact" style statement.

Far better would be "that is a ballpark figure".



[edit on 19-10-2005 by kungfoo]

Originally posted by kungfoo
When quoting ballpark figures, few will follow it up with a "that is fact" style statement.

Far better would be "that is a ballpark figure".



[edit on 19-10-2005 by kungfoo]

Bah!! Ballparkfigure isn't in my usual vocab, I added that for you Yanks ....

It was quoated as fact on the sources I got it from...looks like the dates are off, but more or less the same.

close enough for me anyway....

[edit on 19/10/05 by stumason]

Another revealing quote from Zahi Hawass:

"If geologists prove what Schoch is saying, still in my opinion, as an Egyptologist, the date of the Sphinx is still clear to us." - Age of the Sphinx, broadcast 27th Nov 1994, BSS, London.

Orthodox Egyptology dates the Sphinx to around 2500 BC IIRC.

EDIT: BTW, I'm a Brit like you Stu...

[edit on 19-10-2005 by kungfoo]

Originally posted by kungfoo
Another revealing quote from Zahi Hawass:

"If geologists prove what Schoch is saying, still in my opinion, as an Egyptologist, the date of the Sphinx is still clear to us." - Age of the Sphinx, broadcast 27th Nov 1994, BSS, London.

Orthodox Egyptology dates the Sphinx to around 2500 BC IIRC.

EDIT: BTW, I'm a Brit like you Stu...

[edit on 19-10-2005 by kungfoo]

See..thats why I cannot stand the bloke (along with his voice...really gets to me) No matter what is presented to him, he will dogedly stick to his orthodox views.

Damn you Kungfoo...can you not pretend to be an american just so I don't look even sillier?

As much as I too agree that Hawass is hiding something, we have to remember that he in charge of one of the world's greatest historical site of all time! If he let every Tom, Dick, and Sally start drilling and or digging up the pyramids and Sphinx we could lose everything! And that would be far worse then waiting a few more years to explore the chambers under the Sphinx.

Originally posted by MrMysterious
As much as I too agree that Hawass is hiding something, we have to remember that he in charge of one of the world's greatest historical site of all time! If he let every Tom, Dick, and Sally start drilling and or digging up the pyramids and Sphinx we could lose everything! And that would be far worse then waiting a few more years to explore the chambers under the Sphinx.

he doesn't have to let Tom and Dick in...Just Harry will do. There are ways to examine these sites without destroying them, and think, if the legends surrounding the "hall of records" and what have you are true, think what we could learn about the origins of civilisation...

With any luck, we may even find a star gate and get invaded by Goa'uld...that would be fun...

Originally posted by kungfoo
Another revealing quote from Zahi Hawass:

"If geologists prove what Schoch is saying, still in my opinion, as an Egyptologist, the date of the Sphinx is still clear to us." - Age of the Sphinx, broadcast 27th Nov 1994, BSS, London.

That sentiment seems pretty common. But it's surprisning to see someone openly admit it like that...

Originally posted by MrMysterious
As much as I too agree that Hawass is hiding something, we have to remember that he in charge of one of the world's greatest historical site of all time! If he let every Tom, Dick, and Sally start drilling and or digging up the pyramids and Sphinx we could lose everything! And that would be far worse then waiting a few more years to explore the chambers under the Sphinx.

That's the situation in a nutshell. And it's not only Hawass' policy -- it happens to be the policy of the Egyptian government (yes, he promotes it but the policy was in place for quite awhile.)

What happened was that ever since the late 1800's, every amateur in Europe who wanted to go play with their ideas in Egypt showed up, bought labor, and went around digging holes and stealing every artifact they could find. There was no order and no record -- the whole country was basically open for looting from the rest of the world for over a century.

Imagine that the US was for some reason a rich archaeological treasure and for the past 100 years people came over, dug up every cemetary they could find, looted the jewelry off any body they could find (including your long-dead relatives) and turned these bodies into fertilizer after they were finished looting. Yes, that was EXACTLY what was happening in Egypt... mummies ground up to make fertilizer, artifacts stolen for the antiquities market, people exploited.

Around 1900 the Egyptian government began refusing to allow peole to dig unless they had a "firman" -- permission to conduct an archaeological dig (so, you see, this isn't a new policy of Hawass'.) You have to apply, pay fees, and you have to convince the Egyptian government that you have a good and valid reason for your dig.

They are as protective of the Giza site as we would be of Arlington National Cemetary or the National Archives with the original copies of the Constitution and other important documents.

Nowadays they don't allow people to put things on the pyramids to "test the flow of energies"... because some have caused problems and damage with their ideas.

Legitimate researchers, who have experience with digs and good academic background can get permission for different types of research there. If I manage to get work on a dozen or more digs, they would probably let me in to examine material at Giza (not to dig... I couldn't get that kind of permission unless I had 30 years' experience as a PhD. )

I suppose you can blame us British for that. we were in control of Egypt right up until the Second World War.

But, that doesn't mean this guy has to be a git now. There is substantial evidence this guy and the rest of his ilk are covering up the true history to preserve their own reputations.

I believe he is hiding the information and artifacts found by a predessessor Prof. Hamass from the 1930's. The 20 foot high fence he built around the plateau tells me something profound has been discovered and isn't going to be shared. I suspect knowledge has been found regarding energy of a different type and information on how to create it. The great pyramid was once covered with white rock that reflected the sun as to make the pryamid visible for miles and miles. That light would blind the locals wouldn't it? So why was it so covered unless the light was re-directed somewhere else for constructive or destructive purposes, like the HAARP project that reflects the sun a billion fold and causes bubbles and holes in the ionisphere and that can be used to direct energy to any chosen point. The GP covers 13 acres and we're supposed to believe there's only the few rooms in it that are constantly shown in cut-away views. I doubt it. Hawass is a pawn.

I think this is some of what is being hidden. I posted anonymously just before I joined about a half hour ago, but I don't know where to look for my anonymous post. Will it show up later?



[edit on 22-6-2008 by Wodash]