ATS and censorship.

This comes up very often. ATS is censoring members. Be it about avatars, swearing, content, etc. That can't be further from the truth. ATS doesn't censor but we do have rules.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What does it mean to censor?

Encarta dictionary:

"cen·sor·ship


noun
Definitions:

1. suppression of published or broadcast material: the suppression of all or part of a play, movie, letter, or publication considered offensive or a threat to security

2. suppression of something objectionable: the suppression or attempted suppression of something regarded as objectionable".

ATS doesn't need to suppress anything. We are the largest conspiracy site on the web for a reason, we have RULES. Rules do not equate into censorship. BTW, how did we become the largest conspiracy site on the web? Because of our rules.

Again:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"That doesn't apply to me. I'm an American and my 1st Amendment rights gaurantee that I have freedom of speech".

The 1st Amendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances".

According to:

www.law.cornell.edu...

Um, we are an international board, let alone US Congress. Still not convinced? Do you remember when you joined ATS? You saw this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It looks a little different now. The wording hasn't changed but the "I agree" is missing now. To become a member you agree to the rules of ATS.

A contract. Binding in all ways. The 1st doesn't even come into play because you've agreed to post by our rules.

As stated before, we ARE the largest conspiracy site on the web, I guess that means the powers that be know what they are doing. Let us continue to grow.

Happy posting.

[edit on 18-10-2005 by intrepid]

You guys run a great board. Thank God for your rules -- even though you keep taking points away from me. You're darned right it's your rules that make this a good discussion board. I think another rule should be added. People should not be allowed to call someone a LIAR just because the two don't agree about something.

Yeah ATS. Bravo. Bravo.

Hey. ATS works. The rules work. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Except... maybe a special place on the podcast feed for members to file bits, so we can collaborate on making podcasts? Well, no. Probably too soon for that one. But maybe you could file the idea? Look at it again when it makes more sense?

Thanks for being here. And for making it work. Talk about a complex system!

great post, interpid. I'd appluase you if I could. if this thread isn't already topped, I would ask that it'd be done.

-Shadow

It's Not Even "The Fine Print" -- It's Full-Size

Originally posted by theshadowknows
great post, interpid. I'd appluase you if I could. if this thread isn't already topped, I would ask that it'd be done.

Both matters have now been attended to.

Speaking (while I still can) as a Councilor, I urge my fellow members to familiarize themselves with the terms and conditions we all agree to by being here.

Remember, when you violate them, you're going back on your word.

Without fail, every member I have seen give the staff grief for doing their jobs has been a wanton violator of the agreement they made.

As it is, the staff really does cut members an incredible amount of slack, and that goes for me too.

They aren't asking for much.

If this forum makes a practice of censorship, then i dont see it

There are, on other hand rules of conduct.. on this board and in life. In many states, it is illegal to use profanity infront of women and children. Is this censorship? or is it simply a policy that punishes those who dont have enough respect, or self control to refrain from using profanity?

Freedom of speech might be a right, but it is also great power.. and to quote spiderman (Oh ok it was really Stan Lee) "with great power, comes great responisbility"

Without fail, every member I have seen give the staff grief for doing their jobs has been a wanton violator of the agreement they made.

Please stop with this. It's gotten frustrating to read over the last few months.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You irked "the powers that be" off with your critique of ATS enough to bring the board to a high level of "Board-land cyber drama" with that thread. It doesn't matter if it got you the WATS for it. Or a "councilor" position. You still gave the staff a huge amount of "grief" during that month's crusade. So stop with the chastising of everyone with a legitimate complaint - you did it for the attention. Jeez, if I remember correctly SO told you publicly you were annoying. That's a rare feat. People are allowed to complain - you did it without end for quite some time. That doesn't mean you didn't have legit complaints. That just means you had them too.

No, ATS doesn't censor anything (or anyone). That's why we all come here for our news instead of the major outlets. But some discussions are closed much too quick, and I imagine when people have griped about "censorship" they mean seeing threads being locked way too dang soon (or unneccessarily). Which they often are (in my eyes - but I obviously don't own the place). And by what seems like a small number of people.

Drama In Everyday Life

Originally posted by PistolPete
You irked "the powers that be" off with your critique of ATS enough to bring the board to a high level of "Board-land cyber drama" with that thread.

All members evolve or devolve and have life cycles of their own. I am no exception, and members may reasonably dispute whether I am evolving or devolving.

That thread is hardly my most embarrassing moment on ATS, and there is no shortage of examples to choose from.

The fact that I'm a drama queen doesn't modify our agreement to honor the T&C in exchange for the privilege of being ATS members.

Nothing in my posting history nor anyone else's changes that fact, nor does it justify steering the thread away from the topic and toward me.

If you want to talk about me and my many, many foibles, I don't mind at all. I've started a thread on BTS just for that:

The Best/Worst Of Majic

If you have Majic-related issues you would like to discuss, I invite you to share them in that thread or via U2Us if you want to advise me at a more personal level.

If you're frustrated about my behavior, then let's talk about it.

Hey, it could be a hoot.

Pulling Threads

I sometimes disagree with the closing or trashing of various threads on ATS. Opinions differ regarding what should stay and what should go.

Over time, however, I have come to understand that when a thread is closed or pulled, it is always for a reason. The reasons vary, and I may not always agree with them, but there always is a reason.

Having had a few months to peek behind the scenes, I now realize that where a staff action may seem publicly unreasonable, there is invariably one or more very good reasons expressed for it privately. And the reasons for privacy in these matters have become much clearer to me in my tenure as a Councilor.

It's okay for members to disagree with staff decisions, and the Gripe/Idea button is there for such cases.

Make a good case based on sound reasoning, and a decision may be changed. Fail to be reasonable or badger the staff for doing their jobs, however, and the decision will not be changed.

That's the deal, and I see nothing wrong with those terms.

Modulated Tone

I'm sorry if I come off as sanctimonious, hypocritical or some sort of “wannabe moderator” when I comment on these things.

That is not my intent nor desire. I try to do my best to avoid it as a member speaking his mind and as a Councilor doing his job, and yes, I repeatedly fail to do so.

As you have pointed out, there are some major differences in the opinions I express now versus those I have previously held. I attribute that to personal growth, but if you think it's something else, there is now a thread for that.

In this thread, intrepid has admirably addressed a charge that is falsely leveled against the staff far too many times to count. The issue comes up again and again on a routine basis, and is always rooted in the same misunderstanding of what ATS is.

It's an ongoing problem, which is why staff members and the owners themselves are repeatedly compelled to deal with it.

I literally applaud the effort to clear this up, because I'm as tired of it as anyone else.

That has nothing to do with me as a person, everything to do with me as a member and, for now, a representative of so many other members who are also tired of it.

And no, I will not stop with this, not as long as the issue keeps coming up.

WELCOME TO ATS!

I fully agree with you, but I do have one question.
In the case where someone "accidently" posts something of secret or higher grade, I believe ATS would remove it as a nod to national security.
What would we refer to that as?

*I would have voted this post for way above, but could not find it in your avatar area.

[edit on 10/23/2005 by mrmonsoon]

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
I fully agree with you, but I do have one question.
In the case where someone "accidently" posts something of secret or higher grade, I believe ATS would remove it as a nod to national security.
What would we refer to that as?

What would be the method of determining the authenticity of such a disclosure?

You would have to have previous knowledge of the information, know it's classification, and then be responsible for the confirmation that it is indeed classified by removing it. Kind of a Catch-22...

Some secrets are best hidden in the open (this is a conspiracy site after all).

MM,

My thought, I should have voiced it, was based on something like ATS being contacted by the Federal Government of the US and informing them sensitive material was posted and asking for it to be removed.
I am glad our simian mod is keeping me on my toes.

Antisocial Security

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
My thought, I should have voiced it, was based on something like ATS being contacted by the Federal Government of the US and informing them sensitive material was posted and asking for it to be removed.

My understanding is that this has indeed occurred, but it is very rare.

Since ATS does not condone any form of illegal activity, and public disclosure of classified material is illegal, it stands to reason that when such activity is brought to the attention fo the staff, they will act responsibly.

Disclosure of classified material is, by its nature, not "free or protected speech" under any legitimate interpretation of law that I'm aware of.

I'm not speaking on behalf of the staff on this issue by any means, just expressing my view based on what I have seen mentioned about this before.

I am totally against censorship of everykind.....however....it is very hard to read a thread or understand someone's point when it is filled with profanity. Me,myself, I would make a sailor blush,but I respect the rules of this site and think that having such rules makes it easier for people to express themselves about serious topics in written form. However....if I ever meet any of you guys in public....watch out.

Without these guidelines, ATS would never be as great as it is today.

Sometimes I get my little red flags; and I understand you gota do what you gotta do but sometimes, somethings can only be said one way to make the point. Still best on the web!!!!

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
In the case where someone "accidently" posts something of secret or higher grade, I believe ATS would remove it as a nod to national security.
What would we refer to that as?

to be honest thats a very good point and question, if i had any WATS vote, i would give you one ah ill give you a vote next month...seeings i only give them to random members

surely it would be a form of censorship? and i remember Simon saying that this has happened lots of times in the past for legal reasons (i believe)

I certainly understand the need for rules and regulations, being this is an all-ages website, but can anyone explaing the following to me:

Why is it okay to allow violence, either in avatar pictures, stories, whatever, but not foul languange or sexual themes?

In my opinion, violence is much worse than sex or cursing.

All of those are not appropriate, however if one notices the member to staff ratio, it is obvious 30 some people can not keep tabs on 100 and often more members at one moment.

Personally I feel there should be a restricted forum for topics of extreame graphic violence such as the beheadings. Mature content forum for members of the proper age maturity 18+, would be better for such things.

However at the time being, what can be done is. When a member finds some thing inappropriate or offensive, they need to let staff know, we are not all mind readers so we don't know.

We all are members of this community, only together can we make it better and more suiting. All of the features that members can use to help out, are available. It is up to you to use them.

My point was that the Terms of Service specifically mention sex as a whole, foul language as a whole, but when it comes to violence it only mentions "gratuitous gore and/or mutilation".

I think it is terrible that in our society, and in this forum, violence is okay and accepted, but if someone mentions something of a sexual nature (sex being something almost everyone likes) or foul language (something that many, if not most, people use), it is not allowed.

Personally I would rather have everone on earth running around and having sex and cursing than have even one shred of violence.

I find it offensive that in such an open-minded group of people such as there are on this board that you would find even one member who would be part of the "thought police" and report another member for being offensive.