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Do Ex-Christians and Non-Christians get a chance at heaven...

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posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell." - Matthew 18:8

Which is it? Scripture or what we would like to see happen. Keeping in mind we're the creation and not the Creator.


No, I didn't say "hell is not eternal" i said "people don't go to hell for eternity". I think the threat of hell is alway there, therefore hell is eternal, but people don't go there for eternity.




posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by apex

No, I didn't say "hell is not eternal" i said "people don't go to hell for eternity". I think the threat of hell is alway there, therefore hell is eternal, but people don't go there for eternity.


Matthew ch.25
[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, In as much as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

It is real and lasts forever. These verses aren't talking about working for our salvation, they are talking about not coming to God through Christ, and a result of that is serving God with good works that God has prepared for us to do.


[edit on 8-11-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Nov, 8 2005 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Matthew ch.25...

It is real and lasts forever.


Why should we even suspect that the writers of the version of Matthew that ended up in the canon were not simply liars?



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 06:57 AM
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Thanks dbrandt! I wasn't able to pin that one down as quickly, much appreciated.



Originally posted by spamandham

Originally posted by dbrandt
Matthew ch.25...

It is real and lasts forever.


Why should we even suspect that the writers of the version of Matthew that ended up in the canon were not simply liars?


Well, at least we've progressed from calling Christians hypocritical liars to calling the Book itself a liar. To answer the question though, one would need validation that the Book is correct if there is doubt. Keeping in mind that God is currently alive, we can go to Him as the ultimate authority and ask. I wouldn't expect the answer to come by lightning-bolt, but it will come.

What we as Christians need to recognize is that we are NOT the judge of who goes to heaven and who doesn't (Revelation 20:11). Our responsibility is to do our personal best in being who He wants us to be, trust in Him that He will take care of all things for us (Matthew 6:33), and do the work as His son instructed (Matthew 28:16).

Hope this helps.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 01:08 PM
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What a very interesting conversation with it's mix of Bible verses that apparently even the ones in here have different interpretations of.

I think all that keep using these quotations need to put your Bibles down for a period of 3 months. Go out into the world, and understand GOD's relationship with man, nature, and the universe. Then and only then will some come to the realization of what Christ was trying to say, and how misinterpreted his words are by some. Look for the little things. Look for the things that point towards the existence of GOD. They are all around. Some slap one in the face. Some, which really catch the eye, are a lot more subtle.

It is a truly wonderful, and uplifting experience. Much more than one can get out of any supposed book "written by GOD".

Saint, you stated earlier about the 1/2 right Bible, and the 1/2 wrong Bible. That it doesn't exist. I have to argue against that my friend. Most all "religions" are half right and half wrong. Why? Do as I say about the book and tune yourself in to GOD. One will find their answer.



posted on Nov, 9 2005 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Saint, you stated earlier about the 1/2 right Bible, and the 1/2 wrong Bible.


Hm? I'm confused
. What do you mean?


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
That it doesn't exist.


I agree.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
I have to argue against that my friend.


I'm with you...in argueing against me about a 1/2 right and 1/2 wrong Bible.



Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Most all "religions" are half right and half wrong. Why? Do as I say about the book and tune yourself in to GOD. One will find their answer.


Do both, they're the same answer.



posted on Nov, 10 2005 @ 12:39 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
What a very interesting conversation with it's mix of Bible verses that apparently even the ones in here have different interpretations of.
Translation is far more fruitful than interpretation.


Go out into the world, and understand GOD's relationship with man, nature, and the universe.
Indeed. Observation and contemplation are better, even, than translation.


Look for the little things. Look for the things that point towards the existence of GOD.
Such as the light that is in all of us--there is evidence of God in every human face, if you look with love and not comparison or even purpose. Just look. People are beautiful, in so many ways. Sometimes you might have to look pretty hard underneath layers of hurt and defense, but it's still always there. To find it makes it a little less hidden each time.


Do as I say about the book and tune yourself in to GOD. One will find their answer.
Good points, madman....yet I couldn't resist adding this:

And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Ecclesiastes 12:12-14

(please pardon my impertinence!)

What do the greatest commandments say we are to do?

[color=#FF0000]Love Love Love



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