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The Halloween Controversy

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posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Saint4God, hope you don't get egged on the all hellish mischief night.


Thanks, I appreciate your genuine concern for my well being.


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Uh, Oh, I think I brought up another bad strange teenagish human right of passage.


If my daughter wants to celebrate Halloween then so be it. Nice try, trying to appeal Amnesty International for intervention
. How about this? I have the right to be a parent until she's 18. It's not a feeling or belief, it's the law. Write to your congressman if you have issue with that, it's not my doing.



I never said that you or your Daughter shouldn't or couldn't do whatever you want. You misrepresent me. I can represent myself. Thanks.


I said My Daughter, not yours. You are free to be her parent however you see fit. I never implied that you didn't have that RIGHT


I also vote and write my congressman and senate and the crappy president too. I am also a parent and that will last well past 18 for my children. I plan on being there for them for their lives not till their 18.


I am a member of Amnesty International too, and I wasn't appealing to anyone it was SARCASM. Is that a sin according to you also? I don't mean the sarcasm. I mean belonging to Amnesty International?


My condolences. To your so called life. You should live it. Look in your own backyard. Stay out of mine. I take care of my own. You must have repressed your childhood. Get out there and have some fun. That is what Halloween in the years has meant to most of us. It is my right not to be a ZEALOT.




posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 09:43 AM
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I hadn't seen a knee-jerk reaction like that since I had my reflexes tested at the doctor's office. Sorry we were unable to discuss the issue with civility. I hope for all the best for you and your family.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.


[edit on 27-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I hadn't seen a knee-jerk reaction like that since I had my reflexes tested at the doctor's office. Sorry we were unable to discuss the issue with civility. I hope for all the best for you and your family.

Pray, train, study,
God bless.


[edit on 27-10-2005 by saint4God]



Sorry you cant take what you dish.

Have a Blessed day



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Sorry you cant take what you dish.


Alright, let's talk about just this section for a moment then:


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
My condolences. To your so called life.


What does that mean specifically? How have I judged your life?


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
You should live it.


Which means I dead? I don't understand this comment. Please explain.


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Look in your own backyard.


I see grass. But I don't feel I own it. Temporary residency, that's all it is.


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Stay out of mine.


I couldn't be in yours even if I wanted to, I don't know where you live.


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
I take care of my own.


I didn't say you didn't.


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
You must have repressed your childhood.


Keep shooting in the dark, you're bound to hit something. Quite an assumption about my upbringing I think. Degree in psychiatry?


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Get out there and have some fun.


Misconception #7 on this thread that I don't have fun. Interesting. Is Halloween required in order to have fun?


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
That is what Halloween in the years has meant to most of us. It is my right not to be a ZEALOT


And my right not to be one too. Are you saying I'm a zealot?


Originally posted by Rhiannon1968
Have a Blessed day


You too.

[edit on 27-10-2005 by saint4God]



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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Once again for those of us who wish to uphold our TRADITION of celebrating Halloween every year there seems to be some controversy. When I was growing up I didn't care why we dressed in costumes, or the rituals or beliefs behind it. Dressing up ,carving pumpkins, bobbing for apples and trick or treating was the highlight of the year. I always enjoyed Halloween more than Christmas and still do. No stress, no materialism, just plain old folks with their kids hanging out in the neighborhood, having some fun. Some folks should lift the cloud or see thru it at least of religious past hanging over their heads. The past was a long time ago,and the meaning of some of our traditions today do not hold true anymore. I believe Halloween is what it is today because we have been able to keep this alive by deriving from old rituals of all hallows eve but not taking the draconian approach of the past. For those who take offense to certain rituals of this Halloween tradition,remember, pagans adorned themselves with heads and skins of animals to ward off being possesed by the undead, what is the diiference between this and the Vatican holding courses for their priests on exorcising demons ,which apparently is running rampant through the youths in Italy. I think I would rather have a small child dressed as Dracula knocking on my door trick or treating than have a priest trick or treating me to an exorcism.
. I have not seen this posted for the History of Halloween but I really like the last paragraph.Oh bye the way HAPPY HALLOWEENIE


gcards.com...
The Halloween History dates back to the 5th century B.C. The Halloween History is very interesting as it reflect how Halloween has evovled thru the years and how customs and traditions have changed over time. The Halloween History makes for a good reading , and makes one aware of the origin of halloween

The festival of Halloween as we celebrate it today is an interesting juxtaposition of a Christian and a pagan festival.

Searching for the history & origin of this festival takes us back to the 5th. century B.C. in Celtic Ireland. In those days, the year ended with the end of summer which officially used to end on 31st.October. This day was called Samhain.

The Celts had a strong belief in the afterlife and they believed that the spirits of those who died in the preceding year came back on this day to possess the living bodies for the next year. This was the only hope of the spirits for afterlife. But obviously those who were living did not want to be possessed. So to repel the evil spirits the common custom was to extinguish all the fire in the house and then dress up in a horrible manner and parade in the streets. If anybody was believed to be possessed then as a warning to the spirits that person was burnt alive. A better explanation of why the Celts extinguished their fires is that this was done not to ward off the evil spirits but to rekindle it from the Druidic fire that was kept burning in the middle of Ireland.

The Romans adopted this Pagan festival but in the 1st. century A.D. the custom of burning live human beings was replaced by the custom of burning effigies.

The custom of Halloween came over to America in 1840 with the Irish who had immigrated there to escape the potato famine. The favorite prank in New England at that time was tripping over the outhouse and unhinging the poultry gate.

The custom of trick or treat is thought to have originated from a ninth century European custom called souling. On 2nd Nov..."All Saints Day" the early Christians went from door to door begging for 'soul cakes' (square pieces of bread made with currents). The more cakes a person gave the more prayers were said for the soul of those dead in that house. It was believed that the souls did not receive entry into heaven till prayers even by strangers were uttered on behalf of the dead.

The custom of Jack-o-lantern probably comes from Irish folklores. Jack was notorious as a drunkard and trickster. He once tricked Satan to climb a tree and then carved out an image of cross on the trunk so that Satan was trapped on the tree. Only after Satan made a promise that he'll never tempt Jack again he was allowed to climb down. After death Jack was denied entry into heaven for his evil ways and the door of Hell was also closed to him for tricking Satan. Satan gave him a single ember to light his way through the frigid darkness. To make it light longer it was placed inside a hollowed out turnip to make it glowing longer.

The Irish used turnips as Jack-o-lanterns but in America they found pumpkins to be far more plentiful than turnips, so the turnips were replaced by pumpkins.

Hence contrary to the popular belief Halloween did not grow out of evil practices. Today Halloween is celebrated in a jovial mood. Children dress up in different costumes and go from door to door calling out trick or treat. They are given candies and sweets. There is nothing evil about this day.



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 04:56 PM
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All read earlier my little expose with my friend saint over Halloween, conservative bending, and spirituality. Let me try to paint a clearer picture not only to saint, but also others of what I speak.

In the last year or so I have taken many psychological tests. Every one I have taken shows the same amazing results. I find it fascinating how answering basic questions on day to day life pulls such information out of an individual to give such a close interpretation of who the individual is.

All tests I have taken point to the same thing. My spirutality, and how open and clear I am in "reception". Some who read this may understand what I mean when I say "reception". Most would not. However, that is not why I write this.

Saint4god I consider a good friend, and gentleman. That is why I give him and at times others a little "ribbing" about pulling their nose out of the Bible. I have never been very learned about the book. I do know much of the teachings of Christ, and they are good teachings. I do consider myself "Christian", however I also consider myself a lot of other.

I have read saint being "attacked" at times and his views twisted by lack of understanding by the attacker. To those that attack I say this. There IS a GOD. I don't "believe" this. I know it as fact. How one goes about learning and understanding who and what GOD is varies. Saint digs in his book. I "feel" the spirit of GOD and my fellow man.

Attacks are not necessary on any side of the fence. We are all children of GOD and should act as such.

GOD is within all. GOD is all. Remember this in one's daily travels. It will give a clearer understanding within. It will calm one's soul.

TRICK OR TREAT!!



posted on Oct, 27 2005 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
All read earlier my little expose with my friend saint over Halloween, conservative bending, and spirituality. Let me try to paint a clearer picture not only to saint, but also others of what I speak.

In the last year or so I have taken many psychological tests. Every one I have taken shows the same amazing results. I find it fascinating how answering basic questions on day to day life pulls such information out of an individual to give such a close interpretation of who the individual is.

All tests I have taken point to the same thing. My spirutality, and how open and clear I am in "reception". Some who read this may understand what I mean when I say "reception". Most would not. However, that is not why I write this.

Saint4god I consider a good friend, and gentleman. That is why I give him and at times others a little "ribbing" about pulling their nose out of the Bible. I have never been very learned about the book. I do know much of the teachings of Christ, and they are good teachings. I do consider myself "Christian", however I also consider myself a lot of other.

I have read saint being "attacked" at times and his views twisted by lack of understanding by the attacker. To those that attack I say this. There IS a GOD. I don't "believe" this. I know it as fact. How one goes about learning and understanding who and what GOD is varies. Saint digs in his book. I "feel" the spirit of GOD and my fellow man.

Attacks are not necessary on any side of the fence. We are all children of GOD and should act as such.

GOD is within all. GOD is all. Remember this in one's daily travels. It will give a clearer understanding within. It will calm one's soul.

TRICK OR TREAT!!



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 03:51 AM
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The orgins of 'Halloween' come from Samhain. What's interesting is the date of Oct 31st, why would the Catholic Church want to use this day???

Well... October 31, 1517 • Luther Posted His 95 Theses on the door of the Catholic Church in Wittenberg, Germany. This was the first break from the Catholic Church.

By using October 31st, the Catholic can cover the fact that their power is not as strong as it once was back in the 1400's.

"By the 800s, the influence of Christianity had spread into Celtic lands. In the seventh century, Pope Boniface IV designated November 1 All Saints' Day, a time to honor saints and martyrs. It is widely believed today that the pope was attempting to replace the Celtic festival of the dead with a related, but church-sanctioned holiday. The celebration was also called All-hallows or All-hallowmas (from Middle English Alholowmesse meaning All Saints' Day) and the night before it, the night of Samhain, began to be called All-hallows Eve and, eventually, Halloween."
Taken From HistoryChannel.com

The more you know!



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 06:32 AM
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I think it is all nonsense. People trying to attach devil worship and ancient spirits and such to a holiday that everybody knows exactly what it is for. It is to worship

KING CANDY CORN

*bow before his deliciousness*



Pure unadulterated sugar presented in a trifecta of autumn colors.

*shmack shmack sigh*



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by alphacenturi
There is nothing evil about this day.


That depends on what circles you're involved in. If you live in fluffy bunnyland suburbia, I can understand this point.



posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
All tests I have taken point to the same thing. My spirutality, and how open and clear I am in "reception". Some who read this may understand what I mean when I say "reception". Most would not. However, that is not why I write this.


I follow ya, and can say I know exactly what you're talking about.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
Saint4god I consider a good friend, and gentleman.


Thank you!
Throwin' the love right back at ya.



Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
That is why I give him and at times others a little "ribbing" about pulling their nose out of the Bible.


No worries. It's important to have these discussions to grow spiritually, that is, if we're willing to see and change when the right way becomes clear. I've changed, am changing and will continue to change I'm sure on the finer points.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
I have read saint being "attacked" at times and his views twisted by lack of understanding by the attacker. To those that attack I say this. There IS a GOD. I don't "believe" this. I know it as fact. How one goes about learning and understanding who and what GOD is varies. Saint digs in his book. I "feel" the spirit of GOD and my fellow man.

Attacks are not necessary on any side of the fence.


Thanks again, and well said.


Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
We are all children of GOD and should act as such.

GOD is within all. GOD is all. Remember this in one's daily travels. It will give a clearer understanding within. It will calm one's soul.


"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were beptized into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gree, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" - Galatians 3:20



TRICK OR TREAT!!


God bless you madman. No trick nor treat can bring me more happiness than if He were to do that.



posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by madmanacrosswater



I have read saint being "attacked" at times and his views twisted by lack of understanding by the attacker. To those that attack I say this. There IS a GOD. I don't "believe" this. I know it as fact. How one goes about learning and understanding who and what GOD is varies. Saint digs in his book. I "feel" the spirit of GOD and my fellow man.


TRICK OR TREAT!!


This is a sensible statement. However, one needs to remove one's nose from the "Book" on occassion and try to understand what it is really saying in conjunction and reference to all the other things that God teaches that aren't in that narrow tome of learning.

And STOP BEING AFRAID of holidays!
We fear what we don't understand.
We shun or attack what we fear.
Now, go get some candy and for GOD'S SAKE enjoy yourselves!



posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by jupiter869

Originally posted by Frank4YAHWEH
In the Scriptures the word 'holy' means to be 'set apart' or 'seperate'. It is our Heavenly Father and Creator that asks us to be seperate (holy) from things that the world or mere men have made holy. Halloween is not one of the Holidays (Holy Days) designated by our Heavenly Father and Creator that we are to keep. It is a pagan holiday. Pagans are outsiders and we are to be seperated from them. Our Heavenly Father gives one a choice to do what is righteous in His eyes, so it is ones personal choice to celebrate Halloween or not. I will not so much as try to stop anyone from doing what they want. It is my choice to do what our Heavenly Father and Creator wants me to do.

www.angelfire.com...

[edit on 10/26/05 by Frank4YAHWEH]


Q: When you say "Heavenly Father", do you mean "God"?
Are you saying that God specifically "designated" the holidays that we are to celebrate? Where did he do this? I didn't realize there actually is a finite list of them.

My other question is, did He say that this list is the only list of holidays we are to celebrate? Or can other holidays be added to the list, like Independence Day, or Mother's Day or New Year's Day, etc. so long as we also celebrate those holidays on His designated list?

A: No, when I say "Heavenly Father" I am speaking of our one and only Heavenly Father and Creator Yahweh. The word 'god', or if one wants to capitalize on this word, God or GOD. The word 'god' is a generic word and can refer to any deity by any other name. In the original word of our Heavenly Father and Cretaor the word 'god' was not used in reference to Him. The word 'god' is simply a translation of words such as el, eloah (singular), elohim (plural). These words were adopted by the Hebrew people from the Canaanites against our Heavenly Father and Creators direct command. This can be read about in Deuteronomy beginning in Chater 7 and the book of Judges. You may also find more information on this from my web page titled "Baal Gad" .

Our Heavenly Father Yahweh did designate times and seasons (Hebrew 'moedim') to be set apart or seperated (made holy) from those observed by those "of this world". They are not to be added on to nor taken away from (Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:18-19). No one can not add the "Holidays" observed by those "Of this world" to that list. Information can be found at the bottom of my web page titled "Pagan Holidays" . Many "of this world" teach that these set apart observances have been "done away with" and nailed to a "PAGAN CROSS" . They also deceptively teach that they are "no longer binding or in effect", "annuled", "a burden", "impossible to keep", and that "they are for the Jews only". The so called "Jews" themselves do not properly observe Yahweh's set apart times.

"Her priests have violated My Teaching (Torah, Law), and have profaned Mine holy things: THEY HAVE PUT NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE HOLY AND PROFANE, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from My Sabbaths, and I am profaned among them," (Ezekiel 22:26)

[edit on 10/29/05 by Frank4YAHWEH]



posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 12:20 PM
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I just heard that 1 billion will be spent by americans this year on halloween and all it's aspects, up from the previous year. This emphasis on halloween shows where america's true heart is.

America claims to be a christian nation but it is not. There are christians in this nation, but the majority of the U.S. population has been moving away from God for decades.

I have been dwelling on a thought lately. In the Bible God judged some nations, but before He did it says He waited until their iniquity came to it's fulness. Now God deals with people, so He is talking about people and what we do.

Yesterday I was in walmart(I work there) and I was thinking again about the fact that God waited for the fulness of iniquity to come to the people of a nation before He dealt with it in judgement. Within a couple of minutes of thinking about this I walked by a mother and her 2 children. The children were about 4 and 7(little kids). She had her shopping cart and the boys were carrying 2 items each, there halloween costumes. Each had a hockey goalie mask and a plastic knife with fake blood on it.

They are going to go out 2 days from today and pretend that they are murderers. Her mother is going to instill in them a sense of wrong.

Several moths ago I also overheard a conversation from 2 customers. They were people who were at least 70 years old(adults and senior adults). The one made a sexually explicit remark during the conversation to a woman.

The U.S. has come to the point where our iniquity has come to it's fulness. From little children to senior citizens we are morally corrupt. The president ,if he truly is a christian, should renounce halloween and all it pertains to, but he won't. For the sake of the dollar and the economy and the 1 billion dollars that are spent on halloween. God help us, judgement is coming. As a matter of fact it's already started via terrorist attacks and hurricanes!

[edit on 29-10-2005 by dbrandt]



posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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Quotes: Originally posted by: marg6043
* w/interlinear comments by: Frank4YAHWEH

"saint4God,

... go get a candy they are not evil you know. You should go trick or treat also you may learn to enjoy life more.

So . . . are you going to give candy to the Innocent children or not.

After this lengthy thread I figure that by now you will be against Halloween but not the littler ones, so will you be giving candy away?

This is about giving candy treats to the children not a fight between Good and evil (* or "TRICK OR TREAT!"
).

Well already I have seen the local TV ads for the celebration of Candyfest still turkey pictures and pumpkins are the pictured all over.

The only evil about candy is cavities" ( *Only if it were all about candy for the little children!
).

It seems that on Halloween night the party crashers alias religious rights will stand in their doors with their bibles and preach to the littler children that candy will take them straight to hell.

Right saint4God, are you one of those people?

I guess sour candy is so good that most be a sin against God, so I guess am condemn every time I have one."


* Eating candy is not a sin and will not send one to a Christian hell!

What is sin?
www.freewebs.com...

Oh, and by the way, I also have ACTUAL PHOTOS OF HELL!

www.angelfire.com...

"Who cares I don't believe in witches and the devil anyway. But I enjoy giving away candy.


Let's make the children happy for one night and stop been a party crasher.

Crakeur,

Oh!!!!!!!!yes I love sour candy.

And that has been my point all along, Crakeur, is all about children, costumes and candy.

And yes I will have some candy in my purse I always do."


quote: Originally posted by Full Metal
Sour is so good, get that Pitch Black Pepsi stuff, that's sour, and Warheads!!!! Those are the Kings of candy, IMHO. Love sour, or Jolly Ranchers, Warheads and Jolly Ranchers are my fav.


"I get my candy in Sam's club, you maybe to old to Trick or treat but you can still find an excused to buy candy and give it away, and eat it at the same time.

I buy the candy I like the most then I open the bags and take what I one first. up:

I love sour candies any kind I have tried all of them."



* I know a couple who are painting up their three mouth old and taking it out for "Trick or Treat", "Devil's Night".


* Yahweh forbid if those children do not get their candy that one day out of the year!



"The link between satanic influences of Halloween was a creation hundreds of years ago by the Catholic Church.

They also linked the Samhain to devil worshiping to turn away people from druidism."

* Actually, Catholicism promotes Halloween!
www.newadvent.org...


Correction of alphacenturi's hyperlink:

Halloween History

[edit on 10/29/05 by Frank4YAHWEH]



posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 03:39 PM
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I have to say, isn't it quite convenient for the birthing/announcement of a replacement for Harriet Mier's to find itself on Hallow's Eve? It shows who's got their foot in the door.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 07:32 AM
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My fellow Christians. Do you celebrate Christmas just because it's a fun time for presents, Santa, and fruitcake? Is Christmas all about a tree decorated with lights, frosty the snowman, and egg nog? If so, my recommendation is to re-evalute the reason why you celebrate this holyday. The original purpose of CHRISTmas is in the word itself. Do you believe Christmas honors Christ? Why then would you celebrate Halloween/Samhain for a purpose other than the original one? What do you believe Halloween honors?

Pray, train, study,
God bless.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
My fellow Christians. Do you celebrate Christmas just because it's a fun time for presents, Santa, and fruitcake? Is Christmas all about a tree decorated with lights, frosty the snowman, and egg nog? If so, my recommendation is to re-evalute the reason why you celebrate this holyday. The original purpose of CHRISTmas is in the word itself. Do you believe Christmas honors Christ? Why then would you celebrate Halloween/Samhain for a purpose other than the original one? What do you believe Halloween honors?

Pray, train, study,
God bless.


Christmas is huge because it is a massive consumer festival - arguably it is more significant as a secular holiday than a religious one. I'm not suggesting that it is not relevant to modern society (all religions have their own festivals), more that the non-religious side to it dwarfs the Christian side as a cultural phenomenon.

As for why Halloween is so important, I suggested this earlier in this very thread:

"I suspect that a lot of the reason why Halloween is so big in the US (and comparatively less so over here in the UK) is that it has been allowed to flourish as a secular celebration. It has no religious overtones and is therefore happily included in school lessons. If you add in the fact that kids love to be scared it makes for a great little day of the year.

"Sure it is overly commercialised but then again what isn't? What is perhaps more interesting for me about Halloween is not so much how it draws on its pagan roots, but on the tradition of carnival.

"It is a holiday of excess and street revelry where children for one night are kings/queens (albeit monarchical monsters) given the power to inflict 'punishments' on those who do not give them their treats. In this way, it fits quite nicely in the tradition of Lords of Misrule or Boy Bishop, not only are the kids allowed to be 'bad' (indeed they assume the physical appearence of evil monsters and ghouls) but they also symbolically invert their position of authority."

[edit on 31-10-2005 by kedfr]



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 07:45 AM
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a good reason by a Christian to celebrate this holiday.



posted on Oct, 31 2005 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
a good reason by a Christian to celebrate this holiday.


So the fact that it is fun is not a good reason? Surely you can enjoy something on its own merits?




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