Talmud divides all of humanity into two parts: Jews and non-Jews

I see. Very well, then I hope you can use my above clarification as a reference to see who my attacks were pointed at. Apologies for the misunderstanding. In the interests of time and content integrity, I will not go back into the lengthy post and add names. So to all who read this, please note that the rather harsh criticisms in my above post are directed SPECIFICALLY at the group of people, both on this board and off, who have decided to take a religious work, disgrace it, and use it to convince people that Jews consider non jews to be a lower class of being.

Thank you for understanding this clarification.

Djarums,
Hell man (or woman if that be the case), don't be afraid to use specific names when you post. No one else is. That way the person you want to get the message to will have no doubt as to whom it is directed. If you use specific names, then there will be no misunderstanding as to whom who are refering.

Originally posted by THENEO

it doesn't matter anyways,
as long as jewish people have their money and power and achievement that is all they want.

Is that what they want? Or is it what you want? It's easy to believe others guilty of the sin we see in ourselves.

Judaism is all about peace, study, and working to make the world a better place. Anything you may have heard that contradicts that is a lie.

Unfortunatly, there are many who are eager to spread those lies. They quote the Talmud (and other writings) out of context, ascribe evil motives where there are none, and spin elaborate fantasies that create villians in unlikely places.

Why?

The reality is one can look at any system of belief and find remarks that are inconsistent with the modern interpretation within each belief.

Take the attached for example...

www.answering-islam.org...

No belief is actually immune to these sorts of interpretations.


What comes to mind, as the problem is when we place such ideas above the inherent positive orientation of the particular faith. And focus upon it as if to diminish that as its purpose (essentially demonizing the culture in question). This is obviously the mistake, which is apparent in this thread.

A review of the Talmud does result in many positive insights of which the Lords prayer (Jesus Christ) are apparent. Similar works of art can be observed with respect to the Quran and the Holy Bible. My impression is that the problem, which exists specifically in respect to these three cultures, is in regards to interpretation.

And that with respect to all three beliefs. awaits the "one" all three call God. While its apparent that not everyone is patient my expectation is that the membership of this forum is better educated.

Well said Toltec.

That was what got me so angry. The fact that the articles linked to here, and the statements made by members in support of those articles simply do not reflect the views of the actual religion. It's so easy to take bits and pieces of things and make whatever point one desires to make. Easy yes... but definitely not fair.

The fact that anyone could honestly believe that Jews think non-jews are animals shows me only one thing, and that is a lack of understanding or interaction with Jews. I say the very same thing to those who are ignorant enough to think that all Muslims believe non-Muslims are infidels and should die.

If you interact with these cultures, with real representatives of these cultures, you find that these things are simply not true. Regardless of how someone may want to misinterperet something for some unknown purpose, the best way to really learn something about a group is to be with the group.

We've all heard my 9/11 stories? Does that mean I hate Muslims? Nothing could be further from the truth. 24 years of being neighbors with many Muslims here in NY has taught me to know better! I don't care what extremist views people talk about. That's the extremists who are psychotic. Not the real people.

Talmudic excerpts containing disproven comments may look like extremist views to people, but it is up to people to understand through life's experiences, research, and learning that perhaps there is more to life than hateful, spiteful articles.

Sigh.

Has reading comprehension suddenly disappeared while I was asleep?

Has anyone paid attention?

THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SECT OF JUDISM! Jesus H Christ. To people not know how to figure the most simple thing out?

The Talumudic quotes I have posted come from that paticular sect of Judism, that believes gentiles are basically human beasts of burden, Cattle, ect.

BUT< SINCE NO ONE SEEMS TO PAY ATTENTION, I WILL SAY IT AGAIN IN THE HOPES SOMEONE OUT THERE IS CAPABLE OF GRASPING. THERE ARE OTHER SECTS OF JUDISM THAT DONT FOLLOW THIS BELIEF!

Most Jewish sects dont. Otherwise, no Jew would ever marry a Gentile or be employed by one. There would be no reform Jews. There would be no israelis against the occupation. there would be no Hassidic jews.

Israel Shahak, I will say again, once more, incase your attention spans are turned on, was a concentration camp survivor. Bergen belsen. He was a Chemistry professor. He was a very intelligent man, and he was born and raised a Jew. orthodox Jew.

Dr Shahak was very disturbed by the Talmudic teachings of his youth, and the behavior of certain clannish Jews. Even after his ordeal being locked up in a concentration death camp with thousands of his own people dying, he still refused to be blind to the truth: there are SOME jews who follow a certain line of racial supremecist thought.

Zionists. he was an outspoken critic of Israeli occupation of Palestine. One part of his book talks about Rabbi in a jerusalem neighborhood refused to allow the use of his phone for an emergency call because a gentile outside was having a heart attack, or something similar. he refused because it was the Sabbath.

It was behavior like this that disturbed Dr Shahak into criticizing his own people. His basic premise was this: If a certain group of jews, who hold alot of power, dont change thier ways quickly, the rest of World Jewry not of this group will suffer for thier sins, in the form of another holocaust.

He was a holocaust survivor. he did not want to see it happen again. Thats his agenda.

ben Freedman, another rebel Jew who was also raised in this paticular mindset, came out because Christian conscience made him. Ben Freedman was the son of a VERY wealthy and powerful group of Jews. Zionists.

Those are thier agendas. Shahek, who believes the behavior of a small but powerful group of people will cause suffering for the rest of his people who do not follow this mindset, and Ben Freedman, who felt the Zionists could very well ruin America with thier backdoor deals.

theres your agendas, Springer.



[Edited on 17-9-2003 by Toltec]

I would like to briefly address the charges of there being more than one Talmud. This is a terribly confusing statement because indeed there are two distinct works, but there is no confusion between them. They are just two distinct works.

The Babylonian Talmud (an assembled collection of debates and arguments among the rabbinic authorities who were exiled).

And the Jerusalem Talmud (an assembled collection of debates and arguments among the rabbinic authorities who remained in Israel after the diaspora, a much smaller number, and therefore a much smaller volume).

When people refer to the Talmud they are talking about the Babylonian one. The Aramaic text, which one can be in any Judaica store is entirely unaltered. I have seen volumes in the private collections of a friend of mine that are nearly 700 years old. The text in Aramaic has not changed. Period.

Including in all Original Language Editions is commentary written on the Talmud by a scholar known as Rashi who lived well over a thousand years ago, and the text he comments on matches the text in the current editions. There is no adulteration.

Please read Wikipedia's entry on the Talmud for some more background to clarify this claim of "numerous talmuds".

www.wikipedia.org...

This is simply incorrect. The quotes are original text. Not one sect's version. They are disproven later on in the original text. There is no variance, there is no differing in opinion. The original text itself disproves the hideous statements everyone keeps quoting.

Zionists in case you didn't notice are Secular Jews. Secular Jews do not spend time in "Yeshiva" they do not learn the "Talmud" to begin with.

I think it's very tragic that Dr. Shahak was in a concentration camp. I'm sure that was very difficult, and I won't take that away from him. It ends there. The man is dead wrong if he claims the Talmud has been edited. I will not hesitate to debate him because you say he is a Jew and understands the language. problem is so do i. The notations, summaries, and commentaries on the Talmud that are 1,000 years old show the same version of the text that I read. Identical. Dr. Shahak can be very smart, god bless him, but he's not 1,000 years old.

Ben Freedman? Who the hell is that? His "Christian conscience" made him step up and talk about all the horrible things in the Talmud? I suppose that makes him an authority on it. His parents being "zionists" means what? So now you've got an "insiders" point of view on the evil zionists? What in the hell does some jewish guy who converted to christianity have to say about thousands of years of writings and commentary. Nothing.

A serious issue here is the adopting of anyone Jewish as being of value in this debate. Does every Muslim know the Quran perfectly? Can every christian discuss all of their theologies at length? Hardly. Similarly just because someone is jewish doesn't make their opinion more valid. I can quote for you 200,000 opinions on the Talmud from jews who will explain the same things I have after having read it. Do the 2 people you quote matter more? Just because they are/were jews?

[Edited on 9-16-2003 by Djarums]

Well, I know a lot of jews very very well. They think I am jewish .... and these sentiments are still in existence.... they call other people "animals"...... I was told that the orthodox men go to houses of prostitution and they prefer black women because it is not a sin because blacks are considered "animals". These ideas against the gentiles are very much in existence in many ways. It's ok to produce pornography because it "is for the goyim", for instance. I'm not sure whether these ideas are in the talmud but I know that some of the rabbis support these concepts. (ps. I lived w/ a lubavitcher family; my inlaws were jewish - believe me, they hate the goyim). I was also a "shabbos goy" for a friend in college. I've been there, believe me, there is a lot of this going around. I was told by several jews that they would never have a "goy" as a friend....


area51