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Corporate Personhood and the Future of Society

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posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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Corporate personhood will be the downfall of man. Our global economic and legal system has created a profit-consuming beast that will grow in perpetuity. The control of corporate persons extends over governments, over human rights, over compassion. What can we do to rethink this system? What would be a FAIR global economic system? We must think out of the box, invent a new system rooted in the case studies of the past. My personal opinion of an ideal global economic and sociopolitical system would involve a gradual degradation of all authoritarian structures including money, organized time, government, and all related entities. There would be fully democratic media with free access provided to all. Corporate activities would be fully transparent, and their actions guided not by shareholders, but by their stakeholders- all those affected by their actions. Perhaps artificial intelligence or other complex technologies will make such a system possible, but will the powers that be allow it to gain influence?




posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 10:47 PM
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Actually it will be the "powers that be" that will bring on the system you described.
It won't be pretty though. Nuclear war, environmental collapse, pandemics etc that would wipe out most of mankind. Not really gradual degradation but if you get a small enough population; it would be forced back into an agrarian type of existance that is sort of the society you proposed.

Another way of getting to your utopia would be for the interdimensional/alien guys show us the error of our ways.

I don't think we as glorified talking monkeys could pull it off by ourselves; no matter how noble our intentions.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 02:26 AM
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I personally think money and capitalism are the reason why progress is now occurring so quickly. I do not agree at all with your post and I don't think an entirely new social/economic/political system could miraculously solve our problems without severe upheaval.

And the point about it not being fair; well, it reminds me certain stupid PC rules/regulations in New Zealand. One pertinent example being U-13 rugby teams having to switch players at half time if one side is winning by more than 10 points. It also reminds me of the Ayn Rand book "Anthem" where individual identity and achievement are discouraged and humans become droll boring slaves to the governing council.

Can't you see that a dynamic system of competition may not be fair for some but actually creates greater wealth and technological progress. Technological progress in certain areas (by capitalism) could help rectify the problems created by capitalism.

Capitalism however does need to start to show more respect for the environment and perhaps we should encourage laws that give tax breaks to non-polluting corporations and more tax to polluters. We need to make the environment a marketable quality that has value in dollars and cents to make corporations care about it. This is something that would be better than abandoning capitalism altogether.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by fatcat2
Capitalism however does need to start to show more respect for the environment and perhaps we should encourage laws that give tax breaks to non-polluting corporations and more tax to polluters.


Screw the earth.

No offense, but capitalism should start by showing more respect to all humans. From Africa to the guy sleeping on the ground right here in the City of Angels.

We can worry about the planet after everyone has a home, a bed, food, clothes, and medical care.

Then, you can have all the capitalism and competition you want.




posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 04:11 PM
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I'm not sure about screw the earth but you're right that i forgot to mention aid for the poor/needy. However, if you say screw the earth then there won't be enough resources for us to build everyone a house and give them beds, food or medical care.

Also, I personally feel that if we aid developing countries by building infrastructure we can avoid so much aid money going into the hands of people who don't require aid. Then poor people in those countries have a basis on which to begin lives. I also remind that just giving things to people often leads to them not looking after it.

Also, by saying screw the earth you are saying screw you to everyone and everything that lives in it, including the aforementioned poor people. This means your post was a load of steak.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Our corporate world are run by monopolist these monopolist are the ones that pay for political parties so they can keep on making laws to benefit them, the people is the last priority in their list of and profiting from suffering, wars, hunger and sickness is good business.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 07:18 PM
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Well, I bet if you had money you would influence political parties into looking after your own interests.

If you were a successful businessman/woman then I severely doubt that you would give money to the Greens or Socialists even if they had more altruistic agendas.

And as for the profit from humanity's problems this is just good business sense, exploiting an opportunity or niche. And the world isn't run by monopolies, the very nature of capitalism and government intervention usually helps to prevent this.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by fatcat2
Well, I bet if you had money you would influence political parties into looking after your own interests.

If you were a successful businessman/woman then I severely doubt that you would give money to the Greens or Socialists even if they had more altruistic agendas.



That is the problem they are not just businessman or woman they are the elite the ones that are bying out our country in every election while paying out political candidates.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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Well, I don't personally see any problem in using my money to make donations to a political candidate which i feel represents my views.

Although there are probably a few examples of corruption, I would much rather be able to make donations to my favourite party then ban such donations because there are few examples of corruption.

I would also like to pose the idea that maybe a well-informed, wel-intentioned elite guiding the shape of our politics isn't actually a bad thing.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 09:14 AM
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fatcat2,

You really don't have an Idea of what is going on in our government and corporate elite do you?

Just stop listening to the brainwashing politicians and start researching in what is going on in our country, its going to be a scary eye opening and quite an experience.


BTW Politicians sell their souls to coporate power over the needs of the people that elected them.



posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by fatcat2I would also like to pose the idea that maybe a well-informed, wel-intentioned elite guiding the shape of our politics isn't actually a bad thing.


Actually this is what is going on now with the military-industrial complex.
Not to sure about the well intentioned part.
Dembs, GOP, dosent matter they are all just whores for the M-I FatCats.

I agree with marg6043; all the real deals are made at the Grove with no reguard for the common man; were just pawns in their selfish game of power. I think actually this is the way it has always been and it's not going to change unless some real powerful "mojo" wakes up "somebody."



posted on Oct, 25 2005 @ 10:44 PM
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I would like to bring this thread back onto track. It began with RogerKint's post on how the corporate will be basically the end of the world. Doom and gloom was the name of his post or maybe he just wanted to start an interesting discussion but none of us know his true motives.

I agree with whaaa partially, the real deals are made with no regard for the common man in most cases. However, if he that those deals are all made by the government/military-industrial complex I disagree.

There are many other crazies out there with secret plots and schemes to enact their mad utopias. And don't go and say I am one of those and that I want a corporate police state. I would prefer to keep it moderately civilised, even though other posters, who seem to have been rather onesided against the corporate system (although that doesn't mean the majority of people in reality are), don't know what that means.

marg6043 said, "Just stop listening to the brainwashing politicians and start researching in what is going on in our country, its going to be a scary eye opening and quite an experience.
" and "BTW Politicians sell their souls to coporate power over the needs of the people that elected them.
". Well first of marg, it isn't our country really as i live in NZ (don't go on and say I am an ignorant hick who knows nothing and lives on the backside of the world). I have been researching into what is going on the USA, my birth country, and I have found some disturbing things:

-www.abovetopsecret.com... is a good example of PC BS, which if it continues will destroy the very moral and social fibre of society.

-another, the use of the name "piggy banks" being discontinued as it might offend moslems. What the hell, that is complete rubbish as I'm sure they don't really care that much about it and why should everyone else kowtow to them anyway.

www.newsmax.com...

-the liberal mania that if it bites us we must kowtow to it. If it threatens us we must give it what we want.

-the liberal mania that tells us it is okay to call conservatives 'nazis' if they support George Bush but tell them what their little friends like Stalin and Pol Pot did watch out.

I see many other horrible things like these going on everywhere. This is a far greater threat than the corporate system which has given us so much wealth and with a small amount of reform could do so much more.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 02:28 AM
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I would like to redirect things here, my original post is being misinterpreted. I stated that corporate PERSONHOOD, as in the legal structure behind the modern corporation, would lead to the downfall of man. A corporation is a complex entity. On one hand, it is a group of individuals working together to accomplish some goal or provide some service. On the other hand, a corporation is a legal person, with full constitutional rights, established in the US Supreme Court citing the 13th amendment through a series of decisions around the turn of the century.

Now these corporate persons are legally bound to one goal- creating large sustained profits for the owners of their stock. Individuals within the corporation are thus also acting towards the same goal. Their goals are not to better society, to protect human rights, to advance peace, equality, and justice. All of these things CAN be accomplished through the corporate structure, if the goals of the corporation can be expanded to include these things that I would hope we can all agree would be positive goals for society. The corporate person, a liability shield for the stockholders and employees, is a flawed legal structure.

The system I described in my original post was merely my thoughts on an ideal economic system, if I was able to design one from scratch. I think corporate personhood is a large barrier to any movement towards a more equitable system.

45% of the world's population currently survives on less than $2 per day. Costs are rising as every commodity is privatized, yet thirld world labor costs remain absurdly low. These people are starving to death, and they don't have to be. In the West, we are brainwashed by marketing, fooled into constant buying, constant spending, constant consumption. Our wants and needs are manufactured for us, and our lives have become commercials. Quick- look around the room you are in and count the corporate logos you see. These logos are the emotionless faces of the corporate person, not the moral people enslaved by it. Through our conspicuous consumption, yes, we fuel economic growth in the near term, but we also fuel the corporate person, ever bound to produce MORE MORE MORE!

Further, commodities are limited. Some day in the next century, if things continue at their current pace, there will be no oil, no clean oceans, no undeveloped land, no old-growth forrests. We take our seemingly endless resources for granted, ignoring that fundamental principle of modern economics lies NOT in supply and demand, but in SCARCITY.

Take plastic- this simple creation we take for granted requires for it's creation not only pollution, but also the use of petroleum and other raw materials from the earth. Some day folks, the earth will not abide our calls. Then, it is carelessly discarded, and will remain for the half-life of its chemical components. Every obsolete computer, every piece of laminated junk mail, every tupperware container and soda bottle, will all be with us for millions of years. What they are made of will not "grow back."

At the root of many of these problems is the legal structure of corporate personhood, I would advance. Hopefully I've clarified.

[edit on 26-10-2005 by RogerKint]



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 02:45 AM
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Thanks RogerKint, that clears it up.



posted on Oct, 26 2005 @ 10:01 PM
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I personally think only the invention of the nanoassembler can save us eventually. If it is invented then the world will change forever, it will become the libertarian's dream and nightmare as superpowerful weapons will become prevalent yet it will enable everyone everywhere to enjoy all the basics. The system of corporations will be abolished in most cases and we will no longer be bound to have to work day in and day out. The future is scary.



posted on Nov, 29 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
Actually it will be the "powers that be" that will bring on the system you described.
It won't be pretty though. Nuclear war, environmental collapse, pandemics etc that would wipe out most of mankind. Not really gradual degradation but if you get a small enough population; it would be forced back into an agrarian type of existance that is sort of the society you proposed.

Another way of getting to your utopia would be for the interdimensional/alien guys show us the error of our ways.

I don't think we as glorified talking monkeys could pull it off by ourselves; no matter how noble our intentions.


Okay, you could just SAY armeggedon in the bible and Native American Prophecies MAY BE coming true, man. But your right, corperations/ The CRAZY ELITE NUTS will be the down fall, some make billions a year, give their employees nill, and use the college system as a way to control the inquizativeness of most persons so they can continue to make ridiculous amounts of money, and celebrities, that's another topic.
I just think the system is just starting to go all fuedal these days, especially in the states. It's like cut the socialism, please.


I want my constitutional democray back, so they would 1, have to FOLLOW US(the people), and 2, FOLLOW THE RULES, and 3, POSSIBLE TELL US THE TRUTH ABOUT THE WHOLE UFO/ALIEN THING.(I have my guess based off of reading mythology stories, but I still want to know the truth, it may slove the mystery of why Nick Carter believes in Aliens, besides "because it's stupid not to.", bad excuse BSboy, Bad!)


[edit on 11/29/05 by bsbfan1]



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