Can Someone Explain How Israel Was Created?

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posted on Nov, 2 2005 @ 11:54 PM
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There could never be a democracy or a republic in Israel because the majority of the people living in Israel are of Palestinians-Arab descent. If there was a vote or an election, the Palestinian-Arabs would rule the region via democracy, and the entire face of Israel would change. So of course, even though the zionist Jews say they are the only democracy in the middle east, do not let them lie to you, because they are not, they can't afford to, understand?

Israel will remain a fascist state, that is, a secular zionist statehood working hand in hand with big businesses around the world. It will continue to oppress my brothers and sisters, thinking they will just go away. But this will never happen, because Long Live Palestine, in time, we will rule the entire region. We are a very strong people, and there is not a zionist Jew who can ever face us head on, so they must manipulate world opinion in order to remain in existence.

If you look to the thread I posted, entitled: Zionist Arab Conflict, you will find an outline as to how Israel came into existence. Israel was created illegally by the powers that be which lie behind the scenes. Israel could never be a democracy, because if it was, it would fall in one single election.

Thanks for the post. insha'Allaah

Israel is not a Democracy.




posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
in time, we will rule the entire region. We are a very strong people, and there is not a zionist Jew who can ever face us head on,


To be completely fair, I don't know any Zionist Jews so I can't necessarily say you're wrong at present. I can however point out that the typical war between Israel and its Arab neighbors lasts between 1 and 3 weeks and leaves Israel with even more land that it had to start with. What's not "head-on" about encircling the Egyptian army and having an open road into Cairo?

As for democracy- I do believe that Israel would be wise to draft a draft a constitution and make an effort to define itself on a secular and non racial basis. That being said, the Israeli government has not only a right, but a duty to defend itself against influence from groups that seek to bring war and genocide against the Jewish people for whom that nation was established. Furthermore that government has a responsibility to its citizens to retaliate when they are attacked.
What you propose is that Israel should allow Arabs to vote on whether or not Israel should lay down and die. This is simply ludicrous.

As I have already said, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner; Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 08:17 AM
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To be completely fair, I don't know any Zionist Jews so I can't necessarily say you're wrong at present.


What are you talking about?

Even you are a Zionist.

Do you support the nation of Israel?

Have you ever hear a Jew Support Israel?

Then you do in fact know Zionist Jews.

The Non-Zionist Jews are a small minority that never gets a voice in western media.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by ArchAngel
What are you talking about?

Even you are a Zionist.


I think Israel deserves to exist, but I don't think that makes me a Zionist; I haven't done anything for Israel. If I'm a Zionist, then I'm also a Houston Astro; I wanted them to win too, but I didn't do anything for them either.



Have you ever hear a Jew Support Israel?
Then you do in fact know Zionist Jews.


Then I also know Bill Clinton and Adolph Hitler. I've never met them, never gained any personal knowledge of those men, never really interacted with them, but I've heard things that they've said.


I'm a little baffled that you've invested in a reply to the set-up of my little barb towards the previous poster, but not towards the point. It's not as if you're proving any kind of point.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123

There could never be a democracy or a republic in Israel because the majority of the people living in Israel are of Palestinians-Arab descent.


Intersting.

Could you please provide your source?

19.5 percent of Israel are Israeli Arabs which is far away from "the majority"


Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123

If there was a vote or an election, the Palestinian-Arabs would rule the region via democracy, and the entire face of Israel would change.


.
ooohps - have Members of the Sixteenth Knesset been heaven sent?

and I thought I'd casted one ballot for a political party


And also Arabs in Israel vote. They elect leaders to the Knesset. They have their own political parties. They have their own newspapers. They have full rights to citizenship. They are free to speak their minds.


Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123

and there is not a zionist Jew who can ever face us head on, so they must manipulate world opinion in order to remain in existence.



wow. Sounds like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.


Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123

Israel was created illegally by the powers that be which lie behind the scenes.



Let us know what happened behind the scenes.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
Israel will remain a fascist state, that is, a secular zionist statehood


Okay, can someone explain this one to me? Perhaps in words of one syllable or less. I mean, apart from everything else in that post which has already been debated, I just don't understand secular zionist.

I particularly like the irony of describing Israel as fascist.



posted on Nov, 3 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
Israel is not a Democracy.


Based upon your self-defined use and meaning of democracy, you may be found to be slightly correct, but more likely, incorrect, but to be as blunt about the word usage of democracy as you have been in describing how Israel is not a democracy, Saudi Arabia is far from being proclaimed a democracy anytime soon. You angle of speak on what Israel is or is not is tainted and biased. Kind of self-evident, if you ask me.




Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I particularly like the irony of describing Israel as fascist.


You mean about as full of irony as saying, insinuating, and implying that Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Palestinians, etc. are fascist?
It might behoove you to do a little research on Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini? In doing so, one will certainly come to understand the true meaning of irony.







seekerof

[edit on 3-11-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Nov, 4 2005 @ 01:13 AM
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For those of you who won't go to the trouble, here is what Seeker is talking about.

Wikipedia- Grand Mufti.... tehe tehe, funny title


Known as the "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem", he received this title in 1921 after the death of his father (the Mufti of Jerusalem) under the auspices of the then High Commissioner, Sir Herbert Samuel.

He played a major role in Arab resistance to Zionist political ambitions in the British Mandate of Palestine and recruiting Muslims to fight in the German army during World War II. Al-Husayni was very close to many leading Nazis and conducted radio broadcasts and recruitment operations on their behalf during the war.


That is pretty Ironic. Oh, Israel is so fascist. They're fighting a people who actually contributed troops to the Nazi SS- my god that is fascist. They elect their representatives but they refuse to lay down and be slaughtered by their neighbors simply because a relatively thin minority of their population are happen to be Arabs- FASCIST!!!

And then there's the Benito Mussolini definition of Fascism. He said it should be called corporatism, because it is the merging of government power with business power. Hmm... that reminds me of a couple of places. Israel really isn't the first one that comes to mind, but maybe Saudi- they've never been shy about selling their nation out to Westerners for the profit of business. That would certainly explain why Bandar and G-dub get along so well.

[edit on 4-11-2005 by The Vagabond]



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 09:18 AM
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I can add some more irony here.

Even if one never heard about Haj Amin al-Husseini, I am sure everybody here knows the name of his nephew:

Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini - better known as Yasser Arafat.



posted on Nov, 5 2005 @ 05:29 PM
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You have voted Riwka for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


You've brought a lot of good information to this thread which, as much as they would like to, nobody has been able to deny. That last little gem sealed the deal
. Keep up the great and well-informed posting.



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I particularly like the irony of describing Israel as fascist.


You mean about as full of irony as saying, insinuating, and implying that Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Palestinians, etc. are fascist?
It might behoove you to do a little research on Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini? In doing so, one will certainly come to understand the true meaning of irony.


It might behoove you to find out where the term fascism came from and what its various uses over the last 70 years have been.

I merely point out that Israel is not a one-man dictatorship as was Italy under Mussolini (the true fascists), Spain under Franco ("Nationalist" in name) or Germany under Hitler (Nazi in name). The last one was never referred to as "Nazi" by the Soviet Union, but as fascist. ie the Berlin Wall's correct name as given by its builders was the "Anti-Fascist Protection Barrier.

So, given this, why can't you see the irony?

I don't seem to remember saying, insinuating or implying anything about Israel's Arab neighbours, but now that you've brought it up.

Jordan is a monarchy.

Syria is a Ba'athist Presidential Republic living under martial law.

Egypt has just had it's fist multiparty presidential elections ever.

Iraq, well...

Iran is an Islamic Republic where the elected executive can be over-ruled by a self-appointed council of priests.

Lebanon is a strange case of secular democracy wrapped up in disproportionate representation for minorities to try and prevent another civil war.

Turkey is a secular republic. Has been for almost 80 years. Nearly as long as Australia has been a federated nation.

And Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy where half the power (religious) has been given to another family, women are not allowed to drive cars and foreigners get beheaded in back rooms.

Of those, only Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt border Israel. One democracy, one struggling to put up a veneer of democracy, one Kingdom and one dictatorship. So far the scorecard doesn't look to good for the Arabs.



posted on Nov, 6 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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Just to add a little detail to this part of the discussion...


Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Egypt has just had it's fist multiparty presidential elections ever.


Bridge for sale! Bridge for sale! Get em while they're hot! Low low financing! You WILL be approved. Surely somebody wants to buy this lovely bridge...

No? Well I thought it was worth a try if anyone around here has any respect whatsoever for the farce elections that Egypt put on just for the sake of getting Condi Rice off their back- and which the Bush admin seems to have bought hook line and sinker.

en.wikipedia.org...

from Wikipedia
In late February 2005, Mubarak announced on a surprise television broadcast that he has ordered the reform of the country's presidential election law, paving the way for multi-candidate polls in the coming election....
However, the new law places draconian restrictions on the filing of presidential candidacies designed to pave the road for Mubarak's easy re-election.


en.wikipedia.org...
Under the constitutional amendment that Mubarak passed, a political party must be in existence for five years and gain the consent of 140 members of local councils across the country, 65 members of the People's Assembly (which Mubarak has the constitutional authority to dismiss, and which is 90% controlled by Mubarak's party), and 25 members of the Shura, one third of which is directly appointed by Mubarak, and which has no real authority independent of the People's Assembly.



Iran is an Islamic Republic where the elected executive can be over-ruled by a self-appointed council of priests.


Also known as a theocracy. Not only can the (S)elected executive be overruled by the priests, but thinking young people get the snot knocked out of them by stick-wielding religious fanatics whenever they have the crazy idea of exercising their right to vote in an intelligent way.



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 03:02 PM
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The Palestinian-Arabs Riwka speaks of, are Israeli citizens. What I was saying was, for all the Palestinian-Arabs, even those who are not Israeli citizens to be able to vote. Of course, if only the Palestinian-Arabs who are Israeli citizens of the Knesset just voted, the zionist Jews would (still) remain the majority. But if all, that is, ALL of the Palestinian-Arabs voted in Israel, then it would mean, in a single vote count, the death of Israel. So, of course, these particular people who are not Israeli citizens cannot vote, or are not encouraged to vote.

Zionist Jews believe they run the USA (Ariel Sharon even said it himself in a speech). Zionist Jews believe they are above everyone else because they have a covenant between their God and the Jewish people. But why is it, the zionst Jews never speak about, or never talk about over and over again, that their God turned against them after the Meeting of the Tent with Moses (PBUH), that they were all dispersed amongst the nations as exiles, and that they must wait for their Messiah?

Theodore Herzl (founder of zionism), and Chaim Weizmann (first president of Israel) were not considered Messiahs. I would like a comment from a zionist Jew on this particular comment about the Messiah. All of a sudden the Messiah does not matter? I would like to see how a zionist Jew snakes their way out of this question.

Democracy in Israel? Only time there will be a democracy in Israel is when the zionist Jews oust all the Palestinian-Arab non- Israeli citizens. But this will never happen, insha'Allaah.

shokran wa tisbah ala kheer (thank you and goodnight)



posted on Nov, 7 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by al tawbah 9 123
The Palestinian-Arabs Riwka speaks of, are Israeli citizens. What I was saying was, for all the Palestinian-Arabs, even those who are not Israeli citizens to be able to vote.


So just any schmuck who gets off the plane in Israel should be able to vote? That's really bright. How would you like it if a bunch of American citizens came to Saudi Arabia and demanded the right to vote? We'd bring in enough people to win the election, we'd put Bush in charge, bulldoze Mecca, and put up the biggest Walmart on the planet where Mecca used to be. Ah, sweet democracy.
Are you on drugs? The vote is for citizens. Play by the rules or don't play.


But why is it, the zionst Jews never speak about, or never talk about over and over again, that their God turned against them after the Meeting of the Tent with Moses (PBUH), that they were all dispersed amongst the nations as exiles, and that they must wait for their Messiah?


Red Herring. International law does not operate on religious doctrine. Democracy does not yield to religion. You want democracy in that land I thought. What you are talking about is THEOCRACY.


Democracy in Israel? Only time there will be a democracy in Israel is when the zionist Jews oust all the Palestinian-Arab non- Israeli citizens. But this will never happen, insha'Allaah.


Don't give them any ideas. Every time your friends over there start a war they lose more. Israel could have that land anytime they wanted if they were the fascists that you claim them to be. Lucky for the Arabs, Israel is a long way from the warmongering, ethnic-cleansing, religiously overzealous fascist state that they are sometimes painted as. Arab states on the other hand... not quite so far away.


And in case anyone here is still having a hard time figuring out who the bad guys are here, ask yourself which of the two parties never gets along with its neighbors nomatter where they live. Pakistan v India, Everyone v Israel, Burkina-Faso v Cote d'ivoire, Muslims v Paris suburbs...
I don't see jews tearing up New York City.





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