Why sinners hate God.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
I feel that some things, such as the religiously arrogant and their self-rightous hypocracy (self-realized or not) should be vocally opposed, just on general principles, especially when I think their motives are not positive.

Opposing religious hypocracy will only feed it.

We always want to be in a position of being right and superior, against another person, idea, or event which we make wrong or inferior. To do this we must create an imaginary line, separating us from whatever we want to make wrong. This line is created through conflict.

So when a religious person (or non-religious for that matter) submits ideas, only to create conflict, it is to strenghten the ego. Opposing such ideas, only serves to create the imaginary line with which both sides can now feed each other. This is why we need to be in constant conflict; Peace for too long erases this separaton.

Neither viewpoint is superior to the other. We should accept the differences in opinion, and calmly state our opinion, with no intention of creating conflict.

Religious and non-religious groups alike have always looked for those that do not believe. To get a collective sense of being right or superior, by pointing at the non-believers and saying they are wrong or inferior. This is what is happening here through both sides.

Who would be the believers without the unbelievers? (They would lose their identity, which they desperately need)

[edit on 24/10/2005 by AkashicWanderer]

Originally posted by Machine
Go to this link and type in the words, “faith” and “believed” and look at all the scripture that demands everyone to believe or have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.
www.blueletterbible.org...

Thanks for the link, but I prefer e-sword—with which I have done countless word studies on countless words.

I got tired of typing it all out there are hundreds of scriptures that proclaim the need for faith in Jesus Christ or belief in Him to be saved.

Don’t trouble yourself—I can read and do have abundant access to scripture, of various translations, as well as dictionaries and concordances. One thing I do forego, however, is commentary.

Just FYI, there are 245 verses which mention ‘faith’ and 253 which mention some form of ‘believe.’

Only two verses give correlation between faith and salvation:

For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God and not the result of works, lest anyone boast.
(Ephesians 2:8-9)

For merciless judgment will come to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. What good does it do, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith but does not have any works? This kind of faith cannot save him, can it?
(James 2:13-14)

There is nothing, at all, that says unless we have ‘faith’ in Christ, we will burn in hell. What it does say, over and over again, is that God is faithful and true—He keeps His word, His vow made to Abraham—based on Abraham’s trust in Him—that through him, all the families of the world would be blessed. And sure enough—He kept His word.

He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but he came to testify about the light. This was the true light that enlightens every person by his coming into the world.
(John 1:7-9)


Not to judge and condemn any man—but to save the world.

Then Jesus said loudly, "The one who believes in me does not believe in me but in the one who sent me. The one who sees me sees the one who sent me. I have come into the world as light, so that everyone who believes in me will not remain in the darkness. If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not condemn him, for I did not come to condemn the world but to save it. The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has something to judge him: The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.
(John 12:44-48)


But we know that the ‘Judge of all the earth shall do right’:

Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee:
Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
(Genesis 18:24-26)

We also know that God made some to disbelief for the profit of the whole world—yet none will be excluded:

And so I ask, "They have not stumbled so as to fall, have they?" Of course not! On the contrary, because of their stumbling, salvation has come to the gentiles to make the Jews jealous. Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their fall means riches for the gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! I am speaking to you gentiles. Because I am an apostle to the gentiles, I am glorifying my ministry in the hope that I can make my people jealous and save some of them. For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?
(Romans 11:11-15)


Will this unbelief cause any decrease in the promise of God made to Abraham? Not a chance.


What if some of them were unfaithful? Their unfaithfulness cannot cancel God's faithfulness, can it? Of course not! God is true, even if everyone else is a liar. As it is written, "You are right when you speak, and win your case when you go into court." But if our unrighteousness serves to confirm God's righteousness, what can we say? God is not unrighteous when he vents his wrath on us, is he? (I am talking in human terms.) Of course not! Otherwise, how could God judge the world?
(Romans 3:3-6)

So the faith which saves is the constancy of God’s integrity—not our own.

Our faith may fail, his never wanes- For thus he is, he cannot change!
(2 Timothy 2:13)

The person who has accepted his testimony has acknowledged that God is truthful. For the one whom God sent speaks the words of God, because God does not give the Spirit in limited measure. The Father loves the Son and has put everything in his hands. The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.
(John 3:33-36)

So, yes, we must believe—but on what? The resurrection! The proof given that death is a doorway rather than a deep dark pit of nothingness. Unless we believe Christ rose from the dead, we will never be able to overcome that hurdle of fear caused by not knowing.

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to tell the good news to the poor. He has sent me to announce release to the prisoners and recovery of sight to the blind, to set oppressed people free, and to announce the year of the Lord's favor."
(Luke 4:18-19)

The poor in what? Spirit. (Matthew 5:3)
Free from what? Sin and the wages thereof, which is death. (Romans 8:2)
Blind to what? Spiritual things. (2 Corinthians 4:4)
Prisoners of whom? The devil. (2 Timothy 2:26)

After he had been raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this. So they believed the Scripture and the statement that Jesus had made.
(John 2:22)

We are told that all men will believe in the resurrection, in due time:

He came as a witness to testify about the light, so that all might believe through him.
(John 1:7)

He was lifted up—therefore if His word is true, we shall all be drawn to Him:

As for me, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all people to myself."
(John 12:32)

The Father gave all things to the hands of His Son:

All things have been entrusted to me by my Father. No one fully knows the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows the Father except the Son and the person to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
(Matthew 11:27)

What my Father has given me is greater than all else, and no one can snatch it from the Father's hand.
(John 10:29)

And the Son said that He will not turn even one away who comes to Him:

Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. The one who comes to me will never become hungry, and the one who believes in me will never become thirsty. I told you that you have seen me, yet you do not believe. Everything the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never turn away.
(John 6:35-37)

This was always the plan, from the very start:

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our offenses, according to the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us, along with all wisdom and understanding, when he made known to us the secret of his will. This was according to his plan that he set forth in Christ to usher in the fullness of the times and to gather up all things in Christ, both things in heaven and things on earth.
(Ephesians 1:7-10)

Even what appears to man as something worthy of eternal punishment was foreordained for the ultimate good of all:

For God has locked all people in the prison of their own disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. O how deep are God's riches, wisdom, and knowledge! How impossible to explain his judgments or to understand his ways! "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has become his adviser? Who has given him something only to have him pay it back?" For all things are from him, by him, and for him. Glory belongs to him forever! Amen.
(Romans 11:32-36)

Regardless of the limits of our imaginations and perception of what is possible, God will do as He said:

Jesus looked at them intently and said, "For humans this is impossible, but for God all things are possible."
(Matthew 19:26)

It has nothing to do with being ‘godly’ nor is God in anyway obligated to only save those who have some sort of religious ‘faith’:

Now to someone who works, wages are not considered a gift but an obligation. However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness.
(Romans 4:4-5)

All we have to do is believe what He said—just as Abraham did:

For if Abraham was justified by works, he would have had something to boast about-though not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
(Romans 4:2-3)

Abraham didn’t believe any certain thing he imagined about God—he only believed that God would not lie—that it was safe to trust him, even beyond the bounds of what constituted Abraham’s reality. The idea of a man rising from death to a life that doesn’t end, in a body that does not decay—that is pretty much beyond the bounds of our human realities—even though I believe 100% in the promise of such, I truly cannot imagine how God will do this or how I will feel after it’s done—I only know He said He would, and so I leave it to Him.

It is even harder, for those who don’t yet trust God as He’s called me to trust in Him (as an example, only—no form of favoritism is behind it—more like being ‘drafted’ into His service before I even understood even a part of what would be) to believe others who claim to have been called to ‘preach the gospel’ which is not good news at all, but just continued threat of death by condemnation for things that God no longer remembers, since all debts have been paid in full—for the whole world, not just for those that believe in the idea of debts, sin, etc. How can you promote a God full of love and mercy, of inconceivable righteousness, by making it sound like some are favored and some are not? Is your ‘faith’ some sort of merit that He will reward? Or is it something which you were given that you could not have obtained on your own? And if you could not obtain it, then why should be rescued, while others, who also could not obtain it, will be left without hope or promise of any sort? Do you really think that it is justifiable according to God’s perfect law to saddle others with the very same fear and torment you supposedly escaped by some perceived act of your own power—such as bending your knee on your own? If you bent your own knees to bow, it was out of fear for your own soul. But if God bent your knees, it was for the purpose of glorifying His Mercy toward all.

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(Romans 3:21-26)

By faith of Christ (not in Christ but of Christ) upon all and upon all that believe. There is no difference. I do not twist these words. They are plain and straightforward.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
(1 Timothy 2:3-6)

The testimony will demonstrate God’s true glory beyond dispute—and so every one will believe without hesitation. Christ ransomed all men—all men will be saved. No twist here, either.

You accused me of denying the power of God. Yet I’m not sure you truly understand how undeniable that power is. What God says He will do, He will do. And He said, long before the term ‘universalism’ was ever thought of, that He would bring salvation to all the earth—for every single soul.

Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
(Isaiah 46:9-11)

The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.
(Isaiah 52:10)

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
(Isaiah 49:6)

For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
(Isaiah 45:18-25)

Paul’s humility came from the knowledge of God’s power and his own experience of transformation:

This saying is trustworthy and deserves complete acceptance: To this world Christ Jesus came, Sinful people to reclaim. I am the worst of them. But for that very reason I received mercy, so that in me, as the worst sinner, Christ Jesus might demonstrate all of his patience as an example for those who would believe in him for eternal life.
(1 Timothy 1:15-16)

Who are we to doubt those whom He sent as witnesses—and Paul was specifically called to preach the gospel—and if he were here today, I’m sure you’d call him a liar, as well. Because it was specifically his words that brought the truth to light for me—as inspired by the Spirit of God.

yet we know that a person is not justified by the works of the law but by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. We, too, have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by the works of the law, for no human being will be justified by the works of the law.
(Galatians 2:16)

I no longer live, but Christ lives in me, and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faithfulness of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.
(Galatians 2:20-21)

If Christ died only to save some, then He died in vain. If His success in that work depends upon each of us to contribute—then we are all just as lost as if He had never lived and died on Earth, at all. Obviously we are not capable of making a decision to benefit ourselves—this was shown quite clearly from the outset. If we’d been able to choose correctly in regard to Christ, then we surely would have chose correctly in the garden.

To say that one is saved because they believe in Christ, as commanded by God, is essentially saying unless one obeys a certain ‘law’ then one has no hope for life. And that is precisely what Paul means—if we can choose for ourselves, life or death, then Christ died in vain—because we live in a world ruled by death, and we know nothing else but that end. You talk a lot about how you came to the LORD for salvation—yet only because you feared. You traded one bondage for another—and it is not God whom has bound you, but you, yourself, according to the teachings you’ve received of men. God’s ways are not our ways—we seek to control through fear and threats—God does not! Primarily because He has no need to seek to control anything, since all things belong to Him as the Creator of things both seen and unseen, but also because He is Perfect.

Please forgive me for using the Bible as my proof, but it is what I know to be TRUE!!

John 3:16-21 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."[/i]

The bolded words are the answer to the originally posted question: "Why sinners hade God"




2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed."


Both of these passages prove that if you do not accept Christ as Savior, you will end up in Hell regardless of whether or not you believe it, it is still true. You can stand on a freeway and say "I don't believe in trucks." but sooner or later, one will come along and hit you!