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posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Specter6

As far as any Masonic conspiracies - maybe a few existed a couple hundred years ago, but now... not quite:

My bold:
Freemasonry is therefore an intellectual and philosophic exercise designed and intended to make an individual’s contribution to society, and extension of himself, greater than they ought otherwise have been had he not had the opportunity of developing his capacities and capabilities through membership of the Order.


But then, the profaners wouldn't have anybody to argue with then, now would they?

Quotes from this site.

A few conspiracies existed a couple of hundred years ago? "But now...not quite:" This is my main problem with the mason-posts that feel the need to "go there" and dismiss everything said and not yet said OUT OF HAND. NOTHING is or EVER could be NON-KOSHER with masonry today. Any form of this statement kills credibility. Being a member of a group does not mean that what you see and experience is the end-all regarding every other member's experiences or intentions.

It's like a National Guard cook TELLING non-military citizens that there is no corruption in the military AT ALL in-total. The spaghetti came on the truck and he cooked it. SEE? No curruption here. All's well. If things are rosy at the bottom they must be rosy at the top and everywhere and behind all dusty and rusty doors.

It doesn't matter if masonry is a religion or a shadow group of the Salvation Army. You can't have millions of members and no curruption or conspiracy somewhere along the line. Men are men after all or are we to believe that all masons are saints in today's world?

EDIT: To add, I just don't think that being open-minded about any organization to which you belong and the organization's ability to encompass some form of corruption is bad. It's not saying that there IS corruption that you know or don't know about. It just says that it IS possible, which it is.

And so saying that there MAY be a possible corruption or conspiracy in masonry isn't "anti-masonic". It's really just a sociological propability.

[edit on 24-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 04:41 PM
Hi 2NT

In principle you're right, of course, in the same way that no-one really can know everything about anything. Sometimes even those close to you can turn out to be quite different people to what you thought.

But I think some organizations lend themselves more to corruption than others. Anything where power or money is involved is obviously a good place to start. Governments, large corporates etc have to lead the pack here. Religion surely figures here too, perhaps not the mainstream ones but, hey, I'll send a dollar to that TV Evangalist to save my soul - wouldn't you?

But there are other organizations that don't really seem to offer the same opportunities, and I would suggest service organizations would be an example of this. Lions, Rotary, Boy Scouts and, yes, the Freemasons all have members who are, to coin a phrase, 'not in it for the money'. They are perfectly hopeless organizations to mount a global conspiracy from as no-one will really be very interested. I'm not saying there isn't any corruption in any of these organizations anywhere, but there are better places to operate if that's what you want to do.

The problem with freemasonry seems to be the alleged secrecy. I say alleged because there isn't any. I mean, tell me, what is secret? The 'modes of recognition'? Big deal. But people 'believe' there's other stuff going on and there's no way I can prove to you there isn't.

But there's so much other stuff I can't prove to you either.

From a conspiracy-seekers point of view freemasonry is a big fat dead end. You've been here long enough to see pretty consistent postings from the freemasons on the board here. We don't collude (well I don't anyway) but apparently posters still think there's something untoward going on. What's a young boy to do?

Actually I think a lot of the sillier posts are a hoot! But there are a lot of serious genuine posters like yourself who just don't believe that there's nothing really to it. I'd love to know what it would take to convince you otherwise but, hey, I guess the answer is "not much, dude".

Right - back to the orgy...

posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 08:58 PM

Originally posted by The Axeman
I look at it like this. I try not to get too argumentative with people, especially recently
, but to let these accusations and lies stand is to do a disservice to the Craft.

I agree. And there are countless baseless and flat-out ludicrous accusations/assumptions made on these boards. Many appear to be fabricated specifically for these boards just for agitation value.

Originally posted by The Axeman
As for the information posted here? I was told that whatever is written I can discuss freely in the effort to diffuse Light.
This may be the difference. I have never been told this. If my Lodge were this open, my attitude may be different.

Originally posted by The Axeman
If I can help one person to deny and dispel ignorance and darkness, then I not only do a service to the Craft, but to those people as well.

I must agree. And when next in Lodge, I will share this point with our Master and the Past Grand Master (who is a member of my Lodge) and get their opinions on the subject. Ideas on "recruitment" have relaxed in the last few years, I have to assume that attitudes about education and information will as well.

Originally posted by The Axeman
Am I wrong for that, Brother?

Absolutely not. Thank you for your opinions. They may just change mine.

"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal." ~ Sir Albert Pike

posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 09:19 PM

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
It's like a National Guard cook TELLING non-military citizens that there is no corruption in the military AT ALL in-total.

I don't remember ever saying there was no corruption within the Masons. Freemasonry is the oldest and largest Fraternity in the world - there are bound to be some corrupt members, but to say that all of Masonry is corrupt is baseless and ignorant.

Many of the "anti-masonic" or "uninitiated" members here would condemn an entire Fraternity of millions of men based on the actions of just a few. In the real world we often call that stereotyping.

That being said, yes, there have been come bad apples. But much like many other situations in life, you can't judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few of it's members.

It has been said, "Not all good men are Masons, but all Masons are good men." I have met tens of thousands of Masons from all over the world - before and after joining the Fraternity myself, and in my experience, the saying is true.

posted on Oct, 24 2005 @ 11:52 PM
I appreciate the ellaboration Spectre6. But you did say in the post to which I responded that any conspiracies occurred a couple of hundred years ago. You agree that such a large group would have corrupt individuals here and there. Surely some of them must conspire? So maybe there has been a conspiracy more recent than 200 hundred years ago, which was my point.

You've met "tens of thousands" of masons. Fair enough. However, in these thousands of one-on-ones which must have taken a long time, I doubt that any possible bad apples would confide their character defects to you voluntarily.

[edit on 24-10-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

posted on Oct, 28 2005 @ 08:21 AM

Originally posted by 2nd Hand ThoughtsYou've met "tens of thousands" of masons. Fair enough. However, in these thousands of one-on-ones which must have taken a long time, I doubt that any possible bad apples would confide their character defects to you voluntarily.

It has taken a long time. Through my childhood attending Masonic family functions with my grandfather, to attending Lodge and other Masonic functions (in 9 different countries) as a Master Mason myself - I have been consistently involved with the Fraternity in one capacity or another for the last 26 years.

And you're right, any "bad seeds" would most likely not go into an all-out confession of their wrong doings, but I observed no untoward behavior or activities and therefore assume they are upright and honest men. I have no evidence to suggest otherwise.

I can only argue or debate that which is known to me, not that which is speculated.

posted on Oct, 29 2005 @ 04:27 PM
Spector6 - Thanks for not taking my post as insulting. I know it can read that way (I'm working on that). I've met masons and for sure many who were probably masons unknown to me who were probably decent guys. I get your meaning totally and don't desire to descredit it since I'm with you for the most part. Actually now, you've just made me depressed that I haven't travelled as much. But hey, Sherlock Holmes didn't either right?

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