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Opinions of Suicide

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posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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What are your views on Suicide? Im not talking about doctor assisted suicide, or suicide for the terminally ill. Im talking about peoples opinions of whether or not a person should have the right to end their life whenever they want to. Do you think it should remain illegal, that people who attempt it and fail should be locked away? or do you feel a person has the right to end their life whenever they see fit to do so?

I have often felt that your life is your life, and no one has the right to prevent you from ending it when you tire of it. I dont believe people who fail suicide attempts should be locked up or treated as criminals, that it is their choice. As far as their loved ones, I think it is selfish of people to want to force someone to stay around when they would rather not. If you cared, in my opinion, you would not be upset for a person ending a miserable, intolerable situation.

I have been pondering this lately as the anniversary of of a friend's suicide. While everyone else around wring their hands and say he was selfish for doing so, I knew my friend well enough to know he had no interest in living anymore, and life became a never ending nightmare to him. Though I miss his company, I feel better for him, as I know he no longer has to suffer. He was quite healthy physically, but he felt life was a prison. If this was his wish, I respect it, and am happy for him even as I miss him.

So what does everyone else think?




posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 06:04 PM
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Your body, as long as it doesn't affect me do it. Although with new laws they could be taken for court for murder. Republicans using the bible as their base for laws instead of the Constistution want to ban everything that the bible says is wrong. Suicide is a sin, in fact it's the Inforgivable Sin, so I can see if you kill yourself anywhere in the South...

"The defendant killed himself Judgie! Yall can tell that the Evil Liberal committed a crime, look at em, he's dead, he left a note, and after gettin another Evil Liberal to read it to us we found at he done killed himself. I suggest the chair for this Evil Liberal."



posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by Full Metal
Your body, as long as it doesn't affect me do it. Although with new laws they could be taken for court for murder. Republicans using the bible as their base for laws instead of the Constistution want to ban everything that the bible says is wrong. Suicide is a sin, in fact it's the Inforgivable Sin, so I can see if you kill yourself anywhere in the South...

"The defendant killed himself Judgie! Yall can tell that the Evil Liberal committed a crime, look at em, he's dead, he left a note, and after gettin another Evil Liberal to read it to us we found at he done killed himself. I suggest the chair for this Evil Liberal."


Yeah, sounds about right. Though I believe Liberals also would like to lock up suicidal people too.

One theory I have held, why suicide is "illegal" is because society needs your life force and energy to feed itself. If you are dead, you can no longer consume and buy. You no longer pay taxes, and you no longer can work to make the "ECONOMY" work. And worst of all, goddess forbid, you wont be breeding any tax paying concumers for this vampiric world to feed on. I think society wants to force you to live so it can feed off of all your products of living.

I honestly do not believe that anyone outside your loved ones really has any concern for your well being. Cops, doctors, judges, they dont REALLY care about your well being. They simply need you alive so you can feed the ever hungry machine that civilization and the world has always been.

Interesting that suicide is really only "illegal" in western countries.



posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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While I'd hate for someone I know to commit suicide. I know how hopeless it can all seem, and if it never changes, I don't see why you can't end it, some ppl just reach a point of no return you know?



as you guys said it's their body, just like its my body and if I wanna shoot assholes into my vein thats my problem.


But, our society likes to control the aspects of our lives. They think oh, I am helping this person, really self righteousness is disgusting.



posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 09:45 PM
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Actually suicide is only illegal if you survived the attempt on your own life, if you die while trying then who is going to go to jail.

We own our bodies they do not belong to politicians, religious rights or the person next door, is our responsibility to take care of it, feed it and keep it healthy.

If one day somebody feels that life is not something that he wants to endure anymore, then is their personal choice to end it or not.

It's about choices everything in life is about choices.



posted on Oct, 16 2005 @ 11:04 PM
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Actually suicide is only illegal if you survived the attempt on your own life, if you die while trying then who is going to go to jail.


While it probably depends on where you live, most places it is not illegal to attempt suicide. Even in places where it is considered illegal, chances are you won't end up in jail, though you will likely be involuntarily commited for psychiatric help.




or do you feel a person has the right to end their life whenever they see fit to do so?


Absolutely, I feel that people do have the right to end their life whenever they desire. That being said, a large percentage of people who "attempt" suicide and fail don't actually want to die. Many times they need help and don't know who or how to ask for it.




I dont believe people who fail suicide attempts should be locked up or treated as criminals, that it is their choice.


Nor do I, I know several people who "attempted" suicide and after receiving help, learned to cope with their problems and went on with their life.




If you cared, in my opinion, you would not be upset for a person ending a miserable, intolerable situation.


Usually its not a miserable and intolerable situation that leads to suicide.
The person may feel that it is, but if offered proper counsiling many people can actually overcome those feelings.




I have been pondering this lately as the anniversary of of a friend's suicide. While everyone else around wring their hands and say he was selfish for doing so, I knew my friend well enough to know he had no interest in living anymore, and life became a never ending nightmare to him. Though I miss his company, I feel better for him, as I know he no longer has to suffer. He was quite healthy physically, but he felt life was a prison. If this was his wish, I respect it, and am happy for him even as I miss him.


I don't feel that he was selfish at all. I feel that he probably made a bad choice and ended his life. Although I've never tried killing myself, I have contemplated it a few times when I felt like life wasn't going the way I felt it should have been. I'm am sooooo glad I never actually went through with it, because now I realize that life does get better. What I thought was an intolerable life at the time just turned out to be a short period of my life that was intolerable.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 08:13 AM
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Skibum,

Is not unnatural to think about ending our life we all do one time or another, we all wonder what it would be to just end it all, but good judgment and reason keeps us from just going ahead and do it.

But every body wonders about death some may do it often others just when things don't go right, or maybe because we all know that we were born to die one day as part of the life cycles.

But we all think about death we can not avoid it but we can make our lifes worthwhile and we can make it full so instead of living a tragic legacy of somebody that could not cope, we leave loving caring people behind that we may have impacted their own lifes in one good way or another.

That is the legacy I want to leave, no one of sadness but one of respect and love.

Live is not bad is what we make of it what counts.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 08:18 AM
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Modern psychology is looking into a 'suicide gene'. Yep.
Sounds funny doesn't it? If someone is suicidal how can
that gene get passed down ...


Suicide does have a tendancy toward family history.
At this time no one says that there is a 'suicide gene'
but it is being studied.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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Suicide is a permanent answer to a temporary problem.

I've been there too, thought about it lots. This was years ago now. Wow...that would have been the BIGGEST mistake ever!!!
At the time I didn't think things would ever be good again, boy was I wrong. Sometimes people are too depressed to push themselves out of it, sometimes there is nothing but total despair...I understand this. But people are resillient and strong and CAN pull themselves out of the despair if they make changes in their lives and in the way they think.

I think suicide is wrong...a personal belief that comes from my own self grappling with the possibility of ending things.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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As far as I was aware, this was a discussion on if suicide should be legal or not/should we have the right to kill ourselves.

Which is an easy yes.

Why should we not? Because you do not like it?

So what I do with my body, which only causes harm to myself [mental harm can’t be argued because mental harm can come from many areas] you now have the right to decide this. No, sorry you do not, you will not and you never will. If someone wishes to kill themselves, let them do it because we have no right to decide what is right or wrong when it only harms yourself. Only that person does.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 01:15 PM
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For one, I completely agree that suicide should be "legal", although it can also be seen as you're being charged with "failure to commit suicide as attempted." Kind of ironic--want to punch your ticket because things just ain't going right, and you fail at that so they lock you up or send you to the shrink.

However, there's plenty of other ways in which we aren't allowed to harm ourselves. Seat belt and helmet laws are one that halfway gripe me--I can see requiring a minor to be buckled in, but if I want to fly through the windshield that should be my choice. I wear a seat belt even if I'm just backing the car out of the driveway even, but I'd like to know that I wouldn't be fined if I wanted to drive without one.

Without getting into the legalizing/criminalizing debate too much, illicit drugs are another manner in which the gov't forces us to not harm ourselves. Granted, they have many unpleasant social side effects depending on the drug, but just the act of being under the influence or possessing a drug is illegal, before you cause any problems.

I used to have a book somewhere with a bunch of stupid signs. One of my favorite ones was "Touching the overhead wires means instant death. Anyone caught touching them will be prosecuted."

I think suicide laws--and virtually every other "self-harm" or victimless crime for that matter--are just taking up space in the law books that could be put to better use. Like page numbers.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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People these days think that if nothing goes the way they want to then just end it. I know 4 people that did it, all in rather gruesome ways. People say that it's your body and all that other stuff but when it's all said and done, I bet you will think differently. I've heard all the reasons, all of which are temporary and can be settled with a bit of help from others (counselling) but, for some reason people still turn to suicide. It's not fair for anyone, suicide affects more people then it helps. Family, friends, and/or others can get quite hurt by it, I've seen relatively happy families get torn apart by a suicide. Suicide is the most selfish thing you can do, not only you are showing no consideration for yourself, but for others.

The problems of today will not be around forever, so live it, what can hurt you can only make you stronger.

GoldEagle



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 04:15 PM
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As far as the necessity and affects of suicide on others, I agree with you 100% GoldEagle. There are very few--if any--problems so great that suicide is the only answer. Like many others who've posted in this thread I've thought about it a handful of times myself; one of the main reasons I never did it was because I didn't want to hurt anyone else. If it weren't for that, I probably wouldn't be here right now (please withold comments regarding the benefits of such a case
)

But regardless of whether suicide is right or wrong, detrimental or not, what is the benefit of punishing someone for doing it (attempting, I should say)? If I'm in the mindset to kill myself, to the point I don't care anymore what my friends or family think, why am I going to care what the law says? I'm not going to be here; I'm not going to worry about having a criminal record that keeps me from getting a good job. Any consequences I may be worried about are beyond any earthly court, so all the laws in the world are irrelevant to me once I make that decision.

If I have any second thoughts, it won't be about whether my cellmate thinks I'm sexy or if the shrink thinks I'm bipolar. In fact, the thought that if I do fail I'll be punished for trying would probably make me try a little harder to get it right the first time.

You're right; it's really selfish. But as I said I've been in that mindset before. It's hard to really care about others and their opinions when you feel like there's no reason to keep going. It's really easy to dwell on yourself, and your problems, and doing so just makes them seem bigger and bigger until they block out the rest of the world. If you're strong enough, you can snap yourself out of it long enough to see what's going on, but it's harder than hell. Was for me at least.

This thread reminds me of a quote; I forget who it was that said it, but it's "Those who wish for death truly wish for a fuller life." Just thought I'd throw that out there too.



posted on Oct, 17 2005 @ 05:07 PM
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I have know a couple of suicidal people (2 of them successful in their attempt). One well and the other not so well.

It's almost selfish to say but it's so heart-breaking and so deeply sad for those they leave behind, always wondering if there was something more one could have done or said.

I don't think the legality of it comes into it, if they really want to do this they will.....and if the attempt is survived what on earth would be the productive and useful point of any sort of legal punishment?

Rather than society devoting and IMO wasting time and energy considering the legal aspects of this I'd rather there was serious effort expended on supporting those so depressed and in need of help.

But at the end of the day if you really do want to 'check out' then I don't really see that anyone else has the right to deny you that.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by GoldEagle
People these days think that if nothing goes the way they want to then just end it. I know 4 people that did it, all in rather gruesome ways. People say that it's your body and all that other stuff but when it's all said and done, I bet you will think differently. I've heard all the reasons, all of which are temporary and can be settled with a bit of help from others (counselling) but, for some reason people still turn to suicide. It's not fair for anyone, suicide affects more people then it helps. Family, friends, and/or others can get quite hurt by it, I've seen relatively happy families get torn apart by a suicide. Suicide is the most selfish thing you can do, not only you are showing no consideration for yourself, but for others.

The problems of today will not be around forever, so live it, what can hurt you can only make you stronger.

GoldEagle


You are incorrect in a couple assumptions. First of all, not all suicide causing problems are temporary. I know many people who have tried and failed or succeeded because of long standing issues that ground into them like nails. No amount of counseling in the world will save such a person. My friend was such a person. He simply was tired of life, of all aspects of life, from working, paying bills, relationships, leisure, and the world in general. According to the note he left behind, everyday of life was a slow, torturesome punishment for nothing. I remeber the many times we had talked about stuff, and there really was nothing anyone could have done for him. He simply had no desire to live because life to him was utterly pointless and predictable to its core.

You are also incorrect in thinking that just about any problem can be solved by counseling. I have little to no faith in psychology, as I have seen people hurt by it more than helped. Counseling is not always the answer, and psychologists do not know half of what they think they know about the human mind, and they completely ignore the human soul.

And I think its just as selfish of family and friends to want to force life on someone who no longer wants it. To me, thats the equivilant of forcing someone to live in a cage and force feeding them food they dont like.

This is all why the suicide laws are so selfish, uninformed, and a waste. The only time suicide should be prevented, or an attempt stopped, is if the act of suicide is endangering those around the person, such as a person who wants to jump off the freeway overpass into rush our traffic, or someone who wants to blow themselves up. These activities could endager others DIRECTLY. But if a person alone in their home wants to overdose, or hang themselves, or shoot themselves, and if they fail, I do not believe they should be locked up in the loony bin or jail. They are niether crazy nor criminal. In fact, alot of people who succeeded or failed in their suicide attempts were quite lucid and had a really strong grasp on reality.

I still puzzle why suicide is "illegal" though. It it perhaps the fact that our society refuses to face the nightmare it has created, and thus, condoning suicide will force us to see the ugly monster in the mirror? Is "illegal suicide" simply a feel good pill our whole system feeds us and punishes failures with because it exposes a deeper, unhappier truth?

Who Knows? But police work and social work spent on suicide prevention and such are far better spent on more criminal and harmful activities.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 03:03 AM
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I think it's obvious why suicide is illegal. It screws up the system. An idiot decides he is going to jump off a building and then he lands on someone else - and you know what happens in that case - the person they landed on dies and the jumper survives. Another moron takes a handful of pills, a friend finds them and calls 911, now the rescue services have to come and pump this moron's stomach meanwhile a little girl gets hit by a car and the rescue teams are late getting there because they are now short handed. Suicides messes up the system, it puts other people at risk, and costs money. But I guess that is par for the course when someone is only thinking of themself.

I have heard so many pathetic stories talking about how someone wanted to commit suicide because their girl or boy friend broke up with them. If I had to listen for much longer they wouldn't have needed suicide because I would have killed them. Life is hard. Go buy a helmet. Killing yourself because life is too tough is the lamest and selfish thing ever. If someone thinks their life is hard go to work with my wife who is a nurse in the pediatric cancer unit of Children’s Hospital. Then come out and tell me how bad you got it. If someone has a terrible life they should suck it up and maybe go out and try to make the world a better place. Volunteer for some charities. Give up some time to help the less fortunate. Do something good with life instead of being so self centered.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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What I don't get is Suicide Watch for Death Row inmates... They are going to die but I guess the state wants the satisfaction of pulling the switch and watching him fry.

Or someone who is going to die no matter what, like has a brain tumor larger then his brain and wants to kill himself, yet people would try to stop him...

Or old people who figure they lived a long life, they are ready to go, yet it is illegal for them to die by the way they choose. So far had two Great Grandparents die while I was alive, one of old age after being in pain from bones and old age in general, one told us they were going to kill themself and that they wanted a party before they did it. My momma cried the whole time but no one tried to stop her, why? She was 97, she said she wanted to go, and we let her do it her way. She had all her things set up, her will, funeral arrangments, everything. It was nice to celebrate with her before she died instead of just waking up one morning and being told she died.



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
You are also incorrect in thinking that just about any problem can be solved by counseling. I have little to no faith in psychology, as I have seen people hurt by it more than helped. Counseling is not always the answer, and psychologists do not know half of what they think they know about the human mind, and they completely ignore the human soul.


I respect your opinion but I can point otherwise. There have been cases I know about that the person survives because of counseling + therapy, it works. It's your opinion that it doesnt, definitely not mine. The soul can be helped with human contact and encouragement.


Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
And I think its just as selfish of family and friends to want to force life on someone who no longer wants it. To me, thats the equivilant of forcing someone to live in a cage and force feeding them food they dont like.


Bad example, the person is not a prisoner of others. They are free to interact with the world and others. I do see your reasoning though.

I see how your reasoning can work but, I feel that you never really experienced what a suicide really is about (you might have, but based on what I feel). That persons death also hides the problem which will become unchecked in our society. What ever drove that person "over the edge" will never be exposed, how can others try to prevent this problem from happening to others?


GoldEagle



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 08:15 PM
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People say that it's your body and all that other stuff but when it's all said and done, I bet you will think differently.


Maybe you won't think after suicide?

Selfish? I don't know. Seems to me if the people who feel the suicide, after the fact, were a little less selfish the perp might not commit the act?

Suicide is a desperate response to any condition, circumstance, or situation.

If I ever attempt it, I am going out with bombs blazing around me. What does the Bible say? Something about the greatest love is giving up your life for your brother?



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 11:06 PM
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I don't have a source for this, but a long time ago I read that in areas where suicide is a stigma, there are hardly any suicides.

I think much of the time it's the person being selfish and looking for attention. My sister constantly uses that threat to manipulate our mother.

I'm not sure about this "cry for help" thing, because oftentimes the person is saying "Help me not take responsibility for my own actions." I can say this because I've been there, done that. Not anymore.

Now compound this with the fact that anti-depressants make a person MORE likely to commit suicide....





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