Toyota Prius recalled due to stalling-fault.

An unpleasant setback for hybrid cars may raise public concerns about their safety in the future. One of the most popular models, the Toyota Prius, has had all of its roughly 150,000 units recalled because of a fault that can cause spontaneous stalling when the "fail safe" mode is randomly triggered. The long-term impact this will have on Toyota directly, or hybrids in general has yet to be seen.



I figured this story might be of interest to at least a good portion of our members, as environmentalists and those concerned about oil consumption number amongst our ranks. It's an embarassing situation to say the least. Cars such as the Prius were able to be hailed as "fast enough to travel the freeways reasonably, but responsible in terms of fuel consumption and emissions." The big car companies have been dragging their feet in producing automobiles that fall outside the norm of pure gasoline usage, and the only thing that really got them onboard to produce their own models was the runaway success of the Prius. Now, with this black mark on their record, what will become of what was otherwise an excellent trend?

I believe Jack put it best in the movie 'Fight Club':

Take the number of vehicles in the field, (A), and multiply it by the probable rate of failure, (B), then multiply the result by the average out-of-court settlement, (C). A times B times C equals X...If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Now I'm a fan of Toyota automobiles, and that's saying a lot for a Texan. In my experience, they've been reliable, efficient, cost-effective, and handle pretty well. But I have no illusions about them being an altruistic organization aiming towards a better humanity. If this problem with the Prius models has been bad enough to recall, it must be pretty bad. Which isn't to say it's the worst recall ever, but then all Tucker needed have his car driven off the market was one roll during a test drive with no injuries. Not that the Prius is as innovative as the Tucker, but it still shows that Big Business and the Media are not kind to cars that step outside the box.

It is my hope that this doesn't damage the hybrid industry's name too much. Society isn't going to take a magical leap from gas-guzzlers to gas-free overnight. It takes transitional autos like the Prius to ease people into a more responsible car.

Related News Links:
www.cnn.com
www.hundland.com
www.consumeraffairs.com
www.hfmgv.org

Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Gasoline Price Gouging and Price Fixing...
Gasoline and the NWO
Modified Hybrid Cars Achieve Up To 250 Mpg (moved from ATSNN)
The problem with Hybrid vehicles

[edit on 19-10-2005 by asala]

This could be bad news for hybrids in the US. There are previous cases where problems or "problems" where the resulting media coverage and FUD has caused significant damage to the reputation and sales of a car manufacturer. Audi 5000 "sudden acceleration syndrome" springs to mind, which was remembered for a long time.
(Google for "Audi 5000 sudden acceleration")

Well known and publicized problems might steer people back towards "tried and true" methods of transportation, regardless of their environmental impact. And if you have to drive, you have to drive, no matter how much the gas costs.

I was a service manager for toyota for about 6 years. Recalls happen all the time. And honestly, toyota is one of best car companies in that respect. They even create things called "tsb"s, which are service bulletins. Not quite a recall, but close.

If it was Ford or GM, they would wait. As soon as toyota finds a problem, they deal with it. This isnt news worthy. At any point in time, theres 100s of recalls.

If it was Ford or GM, they would wait. As soon as toyota finds a problem, they deal with it. This isnt news worthy. At any point in time, theres 100s of recalls.

But what if...

the failure was sabatoge perpetrated by the EVIL oil industry - most likely HALLIBURTON under the secret guidance of Cheney...

then it would be news worthy

right?

I was a service manager for toyota for about 6 years. Recalls happen all the time. And honestly, toyota is one of best car companies in that respect. They even create things called "tsb"s, which are service bulletins. Not quite a recall, but close.

You mean like the service bulletin that told them they had an engine problem with 1974 Toyota p/u trucks that they never did anything about for 6 years?

Those only got recalled after a class action lawsuit, I know I was one of those that sued and won.

Toyota is no different then Ford and the rest of them, they do nothing until they are pushed unless of course it is a severe safety issue, all others are put off, probably hoping people with get rid of them is my guess.

"But what if...

the failure was sabatoge perpetrated by the EVIL oil industry - most likely HALLIBURTON under the secret guidance of Cheney...

then it would be news worthy

right?"

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The point is that toyota ordering a recall on a stalling issue ISNT newsworthy. But I suppose since your expert piece on the new concentration camps, you are only worthy to judge whats newsworthy.

I see neither conspiricy OR newsworthiness in this "story", then again, I didnt with your post either, so it goes to show what I know.


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"You mean like the service bulletin that told them they had an engine problem with 1974 Toyota p/u trucks that they never did anything about for 6 years?

Those only got recalled after a class action lawsuit, I know I was one of those that sued and won.

Toyota is no different then Ford and the rest of them, they do nothing until they are pushed unless of course it is a severe safety issue, all others are put off, probably hoping people with get rid of them is my guess."
************************************************
Well, no. Im not refering to something from 31 years ago. Im talking about the company today.

First of all, the majority of the powertrain is warrantied for 100k miles. A recall isnt issued UNLESS its a safety issue. Otherwise a TSB is issued. Basicly what it is is bulletin from Toyota that says "If customer comes in with THIS complaint, check this and that, and replace as neccesary."

The fact that toyota is even issuing a recall on a stalling problem is simply because the prius is their baby. Hybrids are here, but the technology hasnt been road tested enough. There are going to be bumps along the way, but at least they dont wait to take action.

Anyone remember the Ford/Firestone fun about 5 years ago? You WHY that happened? Because since Ford could pass the rollover test with 35 pounds of air in the Explorers, they ORDERED the tires filled only to 25 off the line. 25 was the BARE minimum thos tires could support. Knowing that, when families started dieing Ford tried to blame firestone for faulty tires. Never the case. Tires with 25 pounds of pressure arent meant to be driven at 80 mph.

****************************

Lastly, Valhal...again, theres no conspiricy at hand. The automotive industry spends 12 billion a year on warranty repair. Noones getting screwed, except for the ones who buy a 35K car and then proceed to go to Jiffy Lube to save 5 bucks. And they deserve it.

Have a read if you dont believe
www.amrresearch.com...




**on a side note, I was unable to quote anyone on this post for reasons unkown. Apologies for the asteriks

[edit on 15-10-2005 by spliff4020]

[edit on 15-10-2005 by spliff4020]

Spliff it is still going on and has been for years with or w/o the 100k warranty and Toyota will not stand behind their products

www.consumeraffairs.com...

Like I said Toyota is no different then Ford or any other auto mfg

[edit on 10/15/2005 by shots]

yes, and you know what they ALL had in common? They didnt service the vehicle at the dealership. Furthermore, they couldnt even provide recipets proving they had EVER had the oil changed. Sludge is only caused by one thing. Thats improper maintainence.

How and why should toyota be responsible for owner negligence? Do you think we DONT want to warranty it? You do understand that the dealership gets PAID to perform warranty work, right? You DO understand that we keep more money from warranty work than we do from customer pay, right? You DO understand that we dont want to see some pissed off guy sitting across from us who has to cough up 3 grand to pay for his negelect, right?

Hell, if I could, I would warranty everything I could. More $$ for me at the end of the month. But if you think you can just come in, buy a car, drive it around for 30k and change the oil once, then when it blows, get a new engine, you're wrong. Doesnt work that way.

Hell, even IF she went and got it changed at Jiffy Lube, she would still be able to get receipts from them. The fact that she cant provide one, means she didnt get it changed. SHES LIEING. Believe it or not, customers do lie.

Ive seen every scam in the book come across my desk. And never once, did I screw anyone over, as far as repairs are concerned. Everyone thinks the dealer is some big evil place. Its not. Did you know that you dont need your oil changed every 3000 miles? Did you know who started that BS? Jiffy Lube. Read your owners manual. Every 7-10000 is plenty. And we usually only charge 9.99-15.99. Jiffy lube wont let you go for under 30 bucks.

On a side note...interesting story about the quality "jiffy lube repairs". A car came to us on a flat bed one afternoon. The customer came to my desk and said JL had just changed his oil and something was wrong. Car wouldnt run at all. Well long story short, the car had no oil in it. NONE. While he was lookin at about 6 grand to replace the engine, we noticed something else. The trans case had 8 quarts of motor oil in it. Yup...expert care there.

Well, after alot of phone calls, and visits form insurance adjusters who wanted us to use rebuilt parts (we wouldnt budge) the total bill for new engine and trans came to...$14750. hahahahahaha....rental not included. Anyrate, that guy became a loyal customer after that. It aint worth it.

[edit on 15-10-2005 by spliff4020]

Not true in all cases they did have service done and some had receipts too.

1999 Camry with 23,500 miles, all service performed (only once at Toyota dealership). They say I have sludge in engine and not covered by warranty because service not done at Toyota. The manual does not call for service to be done at Toyota. I have receipts.

Umm..first..he's wrong...toyota stresses repeatedly to use the dealership thru out the ENTIRE manual.

and just because he says he has receipts, it doesnt say how many. In 6 years in the biz, I never saw one car for anything like that. I would salivate at the chance to write that ticket. Nice chunk of change. I would have warrantied it, provided he could provide every oil change recepiet for all intervals. And thats only because coroporate is going to want it, in order to warranty to it. But again....sludge is only caused by one thing.....not changing the oil.

You also need to understand that in a toyota the oil is ported differently. It streams out, not pours out. Therefore the ports are smaller and do clog easier. The benefit is less oil consumption and less emissions. The down side is that you pretty much HAVE to come to the dealer (like it or not), because we know what to check. Ask a JL mechanic..he wont have a clue.