Is America in a no win situation in the world?

the usa can't win in the world because they are fighting fer themselves not others

Yep!,that's exactly why it can't come out right,because the rest of the world resents US foreign policy,which the US government profits from immensely,and corporations of course head up all of the crimes against humanity committed in pursuit of gain.

The Citizens of the US enjoy the luxuries that come from this arrangement which is at the expense of the rest of the world,but the gains are reaped by those in power,and they are not going to share their wealth with us "useless eaters" forever.

Then there will be a problem,but by the time everyone wakes up it may be too late.

You think they write those things,the PATRIOT Act and VICTORY Act in an attempt to help us?.
It's a big joke,they are laughing at us,there are six million+ laws on the books in the US,if you think you aren't breaking one you are wrong,and you will have no recourse.
They give an act a pretty name and the people will let it pass without reading the rest,kinda like buying a used car and taking the word of the salesman who sold it to you that it was only driven to church on sundays by a 75 year old woman.

Im just saying that dont take credit for something that doesnt belong to you.

America is a place, not a nation, you are just mixed collection of people around the world, people who really dont even get along with each others. Let alone with rest of the world.

No, we ARE a nation...and we get along well enough with each other. Hell, in the same office, I work with a former Isreali soldier, and an Iranian, and none of us seem to blow each other up each day.... I'm not taking credit for anything.... African Americans are Americans just as much as myself or any other. To imply otherwise, would be like me saying I'm Irish, or English, instead of American...when I know little of either's actual culture. The same can be said for most African Americans. They know American culture and are of that culture...not of an African culture...

But, I don't mean for the thread to go off on a tangent....

I wasn't using Sports as a defense, merely illustrating a point...that though we are always put down for being Americans, there seem to be a lot of reasons people risk life and limb to get here....

True, that many of the undercurrents are set in motion by those in power unaffected by the current administration, but in terms of world opinion (i.e. the purpose of the thread, as I read it), it is closely tied to the current administration. Our internation face, is a direct reflection of an administration and president. It is this president's actions, that have put the proverbial egg on our faces....

Banjo,

who the hell else are we going to fight for? We shouldnt be fighting for anyone else. Theres our problem.

Were fighting for other peoples interests. Rich people, dictators, ect.

Our interests are not being served. My life is not any better because of free trade, its worse. My life isnt any better because of our invasion of the middle east.

No one listens to Unbalanced, but they should. You distract yourselves with the stupidity of the petty conflicts when you arent looking at the center. The problem:

America is not embracing Isolationism.

Originally posted by Gazrok

But, I don't mean for the thread to go off on a tangent....
True, that many of the undercurrents are set in motion by those in power unaffected by the current administration, but in terms of world opinion (i.e. the purpose of the thread, as I read it), it is closely tied to the current administration. Our internation face, is a direct reflection of an administration and president. It is this president's actions, that have put the proverbial egg on our faces....

This was one answer i was looking for when i started this thread..

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Salem


Totally wrong, if US stop funding Israel, the Israel gvt wont be able to use their military strenght and opress the palestinians, they will have to resolve the palestine problem like any good minded nation, they will have to do concession and it will lower the support of palestinians for Hamas and Al Quaeda.


Nobody will be blamed, because it wont start anything.

Pah!! You fool. You can't see further than the end of your own nose.
Don't you understand?

IT'S TOO LATE!!!!

The Israelis have all the military technology they need and Hamas have all the support they need.
You're trying to lock the stable door after the horse has bolted!!!

Dude nobody else will be blamed than israel gvt if they can't control their #ing fashist tendencies. Don't worry about my nose, worry about yours and stop beiliving israel and US propaganda... even Al Jazeira is more objective.

Here's a little story for you Salem and it has a moral:

"The man walked down the path, his first-born son in his arms. His wife trailed behind, trying to hide her tears. The valley ahead was still too far off for him to see their destination, but the smoke rising in the distance assured him that all was ready. The dusty soil swirled around their feet as they walked, evidence of the extended drought upon the land. Eventually they reached the rim of the basin and started down the narrow path. Below them, they could see the idol and the crowd around it. They continued to the floor of the valley and approached the statue.
The drums began to pound slowly, with the beat increasing in frequency and volume as the man approached the status with its extended arms. The throng began to dance and shriek with anticipation. The man paused a few steps from the idol. He could hear his wife behind him, begging him not to do what was required. He clenched his jaw and approached the red-hot hands of Molech. This close to the statue, the pain in his heart was joined by the agony of heat on his exposed skin.

He took a breath of stifling air, raised his boy to heaven and tossed him into the hands of his god. The pounding drums and the singing of the people behind nearly covered the screams of his son, just a few feet away. The boy thrashed on the heated brazen hands, trying to escape their searing touch. Finally, mercifully, he rolled down the arms and into the hollow statue filled with fire."


FYI:

Molech was an ancient deity, worshipped throughout Canaan and Phoenicia. Called the god of the Ammonites, Molech is essentially identical with both Chemosh of Moab and Melquart of Tyre. The idol of Molech was a brass image in human form yet with the head of an ox. The statue was hollow and had outstretched hands to receive offerings. The image was heated from below by fire and the sacrifice, a small child, was placed in the god's outstretched arms. The thrashing of the sacrifice would cause it to drop into the hollow statue and be consumed by the fires below.
The worship of Molech has mercifully fallen out of practice. Yet, in the same region of the world where the ashes of Molech's offerings lie, a new cult of death has emerged. One where parents willingly sacrifice their own sons and daughters, blinded by their hatred toward their enemy. Their young children play with real guns and the heroes they model themselves after are murderers. Their teenagers accessorize not with fashion but with explosive belts. They produce martyrs but no dreamers.

The Palestinians look to a future without any Israel and then sacrifice the next generation in an attempt to achieve it. They do not fathom that they are blowing up their future rather than securing it. Former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir was exactly right when she said:

We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.
The true question is not "Will there be a future for the Palestinians?" but rather "Will there be any Palestinians left to participate in their future?" The key to peace in the region is not a new Prime Minister, 'roadmap' or cease-fire. The key to peace in the region is when the Palestinian people are taught and understand that their human sacrifices do not advance their cause. They are as futile and self-damaging as the offerings once made to Molech.


Takes two to tango bud....not one!

regards
seekerof

what's that saying ...about Some of the people
some of the time.....even, Most of the people, most of the time.......but you can't Please All the People All the Time

(insert nation's for people)
~~~

This Administration, among other things, is addressing circumstances and resulting conditions created by the former administration .

Although the 'born again' right wing christian flavors are not shared by me, the desired end result & ultimate goals are pro-american, protection, security....
Because, without the US survival as top priority, all other points are moot.

[Edited on 15-9-2003 by riffraffalunas]

We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.

Takes two to tango bud....not one!

Interesting fact, you could mention the Abraham case but you didn't, why ? I think I know why...

In occident and middle east we both have the concept that : one side is purely evil // one side is purely good.

Why in occident and middle east ? Because it is a doctrina spread by the old testament.



The orientals have another way to look at this concept ;



This Simbol(Yin-Yang) represents the ancient Chinese understanding of how things work. The outer circle represents "everything", while the black and white shapes within the circle represent the interaction of two energies, called "yin" (black) and "yang" (white), which cause everything to happen. They are not completely black or white, just as things in life are not completely black or white, and they cannot exist without each other.

What does it mean ? That if Golda wasn't blinded by the fact that she thinks that the palestinians are evil, she rather said this : Why do the palestinians hate us ? What's the difference between a Hamas and a Palestinian ?

What does it mean ? That you forgot one thing, arabs are not the only nations who have the notion of "sacrifice".

"The Jerusalem Post took a strong editorial stand today, calling on Israel to kill Yasser Arafat:
"The world will not help us; we must help ourselves. We must kill as many of the Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders as possible, as quickly as possible, while minimizing collateral damage, but not letting that damage stop us. And we must kill Yasser Arafat, because the world leaves us no alternative." "

www.israelnationalnews.com...

Their will be peace in Israel when Israel will recognize that Palestinians are not deserving every single things Israel is doing to us.

Got no problems with assassinations of jihad leaders and hamas leaders, but when they send an helicopter in gaza and blow innocent civilians...




[Edited on 15-9-2003 by Salem]

[Edited on 15-9-2003 by Salem]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Leveler,

yes, the US COULD live in isolation. It would require a massive change in our who system, a massive change in how we operate. But it could be done, and SHOULD be done.

First step is getting off Mideast oil dependance. Thats the big killer. Next step is bring manufacturing back to the US, or simply re instating it. lessen our imports. produce for ourselves. Bring all forces back home. Bring our interests back home. Once we bring our interests back home, we will not need troops to guard them. They will be here guarding thier homeland where they belong and where they WANT to be. Less involvement in world affairs, cutting off economic aid period.

let the world deal with its own stupid messes. Massacres, geneocide, I dont care. Let those countries deals with those issues. Im tired of babysitting idiots in the Blakans, middle east, africa, or asia who cant #ing pull thier stupid heads out of thier asses and get with the program. It is NOT in our interests to stick our nsoe there, its in THIER interests. Even that is debatable.

The US looks out for its own interests. OF COURSE! Who elses interests should we be looking out for? I wasnt aware that we were supposed to be the worlds gentle benefactor. Were a country. We have interests we need to look out for. Were not doing it. See isolation. THATS our best interest.

What happens to the rest of the world after a full US pullout is not my concern, thats thiers. I dont even believe in the UN. UN bad. US should simply pull out of UN on its way out of the world. Screw NATO, screw UN, screw screw screw them all. NATO is outdated, the cold war is over. Europe will be happier once US military leaves, and American soldiers will be even HAPPIER!

As to what the rest of the world thinks, I stopped caring long ago except when certain attiudes threaten our security. The rest of the worlds opinion of what we should be doing does not count. We need to come back home and build up here.

I would say thats a bad choice... Korea followed a similar policy too called "Isolationism" before World War II and they didn't trade or had contacts out in the other countries and sht like that... Guess wats the result? Japan invades because they already advanced to better tanks, and etc. by trading and getting ideas from other countries. and ofcourse and the end Hiroshima and Japan retreats... If U.S. isolates, the countries outside would start getting power and allies until they decide to conquer U.S.

NEVER LET HISTORY REPEAT ITSELF

Isolationism would keep the wealth here,we need the jobs here,we aren't afraid to work for what we get.
If the US actually fell into the groove and globalised,our lifestyle standards will be reduced because our wealth will be redistributed to other poorer countries.
Don't fall for that EU stuff,it's a lie,a lot of those poorer countries want to get in on it because it is the only way they can up their standards of living.
Going back to isolationism would be what America would have to do to recover from the slide we are in now.
Read this:
www.thetruthseekers.com...
The story does not look like it will have a happy ending unless we get rid of our buying from overseas and outside of the US habit,the only way we will ever recover is to start making more stuff here for our own use instead of giving our wealth away.
Separatism and Isolationism is what made America great to begin with,somewhere along the line our leaders decided they wanted to change things,if they keep changing we won't have anything left here.
Regression would be good,we're a bunch of slobs for the most part anyway.


[Edited on 18-9-2003 by uNBaLaNCeD]

Solomon,

The US isnt Korea.

No one is gonna invade. Why? Not feasable. For one, the US is just too damn big a country for anyone to even attempt to occupy. Hitler tried occupying the Juggernaut Russia, and look where it got him. Japan was only capable of occupying a small portion of China.

You also forget that the US has an armed population. Armed populations are alot harder to subdue than unarmed ones. You have some 300 million people and guns everywhere. Anyone who tried to occupy would probably end up with a never ending guerilla war over vast terrain of extremes. they would have to occupy deserts, mountains, wide open plains with the never ending threat of tornadoes, blizzards, ect. Violent extremes. The US simply would not be feasable to invade.

Thus, an even better reason for isolationism: were happier and healthier on our own soil.

i guess ur right... but U.S. imports more than export...

Originally posted by FULCRUM
Im just saying that dont take credit for something that doesnt belong to you.

America is a place, not a nation, you are just mixed collection of people around the world, people who really dont even get along with each others. Let alone with rest of the world.

Care to make sense of this, please? A place and not a nation?
In some aspects, you may have a point as we have allowed everything from the media to the education system to be hijacked by subversives whose goal is to destroy our society. We have allowed ourselves to be told that our society is multicultural, that morality is relative, that there is no such thing as God and that we should depend on the government as if it is God. Our government is unwilling to control our borders and prevent illegal entry, and allows excessive entry legally. Those in control of every aspect, both governmentally and privately, are members of organizations striving for universal control.

I doubt that is what you were saying, but if it was, you are indeed correct.

Real deal,

the reason that the US is so hated is that all other countries in the world blame all their problems on them. You know like when someone is a teenager trying to grow up and they can't see fault in themselves but they can rip their own parents to shreds.

that kind of thing.

there are a lot of countries in the world that need to grow up.

Can the US win doing this?

good question, does it make sense to be a parent when there is so many costs and seemingly so few rewards at times. Yes because you know in the long run that you did the right thing.

America is a place, not a nation, you are just mixed collection of people around the world, people who really dont even get along with each others. Let alone with rest of the world.

Is that so hard to understand?

I ment what i wrote.

You are mix of white europeans, black africans (whom many are 'turning to moslems'), mexicans (of whom not too many are legaly even citizens), your indians (native americans) and good knows what else..

You fight between yourselfs and with the outside world.

And only thing most of the people in US are loyal to is $$$ .. nothing else matters.

Thomas C,

a globalist reveals themself.

I am a globalist too but a democratic globalist not an authoritarian globalist.

those that slag the US are the same ones that will run to globalism as a solution for all there problems. Globalists want others to hate the US because they will offer them revenge by destroying the last viable country on this earth. The fools will be happy for awhile. Until they learn that they sold their freedom down the river just to extract some revenge on annother. That's what happens when you look in the mirror and you don't see the real you.

Originally posted by THENEO
Real deal,

the reason that the US is so hated is that all other countries in the world blame all their problems on them. You know like when someone is a teenager trying to grow up and they can't see fault in themselves but they can rip their own parents to shreds.

that kind of thing.

there are a lot of countries in the world that need to grow up.

Can the US win doing this?

good question, does it make sense to be a parent when there is so many costs and seemingly so few rewards at times. Yes because you know in the long run that you did the right thing.

THENOE..

Im not sure about the US being hated by all countries and as for blame should't that go to the ones who created the problems..
But it seems whatever America does they are in the wrong..Has other countries got the power to compete with America?

realdeal,

do you know about roman history?
if so then you will see many parallels with rome and the US today.

if not then read some, you will find it most interesting.

let me ask you this, were your parents the reason for all your short comings in life? were they the cause of all your successes?

THENEO

Well as i see it no country has been as dominant culturally, economically, technologically and militarily in the history of the world since the Roman empire.

As for my parents who knows if they are responsable for any short commings or success im my life,i make my own decisions, i don't turn to them for help i sort out my own problems.If you look at it that they brought you up and made you what you are then you are right..