if one was to say that you are a terrorist and you say no if the persons saying it have enough influence what you say doesnt matter you shoot and they say they were right and you no longer matter "guns?" they start with one by one by five by ten by 20...etc. you say that all the people that you asked have said that they would never go agaisnt there friends so what if they dont know you not everyone does then tell them ypur a threat a terrorist do they wait to ask your friends family neibours no your screwed the start of the end

Originally posted by Amethyst


You know, if you've been convicted of a crime, and you did your time and are now free, you should have the same right to self-defense as anyone else.

I fall under the criminal category and am hoping to get my record expuged next year if I can. I've had a few guns but ended up giving them away or selling them for fear of a 5+ year term. The only problem is New Jersey has no self-defense laws. Thinking of moving back to either VA or GA.

I don't think it will be on the scale of the Stalinist USSR or the Thought Police in "1984", but some civil liberties will diseapear a la Patriot Act.

Can someone tell me which one of youre rights have been taken away? You are freely speaking here, you can freely speak in public. I mean, communist parties are on the ballots when we go and vote here. While I know they will never win because that movement never caught on here in the US. The Patriot Act has been around for 4 years, is about to expire, and what rights did you lose during that time? Seriously, was haebius corpus suspended? Was the right to free speech, religion, privacy, and press taken away? I just want to know what exact rights you have that have been infringed, none of mine have, but maybe thats just me.

Originally posted by ludaChris
Can someone tell me which one of youre rights have been taken away? You are freely speaking here, you can freely speak in public. I mean, communist parties are on the ballots when we go and vote here. While I know they will never win because that movement never caught on here in the US. The Patriot Act has been around for 4 years, is about to expire, and what rights did you lose during that time? Seriously, was haebius corpus suspended? Was the right to free speech, religion, privacy, and press taken away? I just want to know what exact rights you have that have been infringed, none of mine have, but maybe thats just me.

You don't get it. Americans have not lost any rights, but from what I've read your rights have been infringed upon and in some cases severly violated. If this continues without serious repercussions, these people will only continue to infringe upon your rights until you've virtually lost them.
Losing is a process.

Once again I ask which rights have been violated? You say mine have, but how do you know? Do you walk in my shoes? No! Youre trying to tell me my rights have been violated, when you dont even know me. I guess me telling you that my rights havent been violated isnt credible enough. But go ahead and enlighten me as to which one of my rights have been violated there.

it is a polictical mess.meanwhile the eruo dollar takes stage and is about to become the major trading dollar as the u.s dollar comes to her final bow.police state or as i call it china state.its happen before look at russia your following there foot steps to a tee....

Originally posted by ludaChris
Once again I ask which rights have been violated? You say mine have, but how do you know? Do you walk in my shoes? No! Youre trying to tell me my rights have been violated, when you dont even know me. I guess me telling you that my rights havent been violated isnt credible enough. But go ahead and enlighten me as to which one of my rights have been violated there.

When I'm saying "you" in this case, I don't mean you personally, you = the American people -- in this case.
This meaning if several people's rights get violated in America, and those people are American citizens, thus "your" rights are violated.
If it can be done to them, it could be done to you.

Anyway, you (yes now I'm refering to you personally) don't care what happens to your fellow citizens? You don't care if their rights get violated, aslong as yours don't?

Great thread. Missed it til now.

...IMO everything is gearing up - a full out no-hold-barred police state is right around the corner. All the pieces and parts are in place - the only thing missing is a national emergency.



sp

[edit on 8-1-2006 by soficrow]

I look forward to the day that the government decides to try to take our guns away. I am sure that very few of you know how many militias are out there, and how well they are actually trained. The armed U.S. population outranks our military by no less than 20 to 1. Hell, I bet the state of Texas alone has more armed civillians than our government has soldiers. Not to mention that only about 30% of our military force actually knows how to properly use a weapon, and most of those are Marines and special forces.

I am exmilitary and a U.S. Marine. I saw first hand the level of incompetence our military commands. The fight between civilians and military would last no longer than 10 days with our government loosing. So I say bring it on Bushy boy. If you have the balls.

This is our country and it's time that we take it back. The second ammendment was written so the American people could not be forced into a police state by the government. They knew we could kick ass and gave us a legal course of action to do it with.

Ok, I'm just saying, I dont feel like what I'm seeing is a collecive(ie all Americans) breach of civil rights. And our guns will never be taken. If anyone will try it wont be here in the US, it will be at the UN. Look up UN and Gun Control on google. Youll see what I mean. But I'm just not seeing where your average everyday American is having their rights infringed. I need specific examples to see exactly where your coming from when making that statement, otherwise I dont see how you can make that statement. The NSA program is targeting potential terrorist phone calls. Not you and me, unless you are talking with terrorists, which I dont believe any of you are. I just want clarification so I know exactly what you are refering to when you are saying Americans rights are being infringed.

Originally posted by soficrow
Great thread. Missed it til now.

...IMO everything is gearing up - a full out no-hold-barred police state is right around the corner. All the pieces and parts are in place - the only thing missing is a national emergency.



sp

[edit on 8-1-2006 by soficrow]

Hello!!? Ever built a snowball, roll it around so it gets bigger and bigger? Well, that part is complete. All we need now is the scarf and the carrot.

Quote:

Ok, I'm just saying, I dont feel like what I'm seeing is a collecive(ie all Americans) breach of civil rights. And our guns will never be taken. If anyone will try it wont be here in the US, it will be at the UN. Look up UN and Gun Control on google. Youll see what I mean. But I'm just not seeing where your average everyday American is having their rights infringed. I need specific examples to see exactly where your coming from when making that statement, otherwise I dont see how you can make that statement. The NSA program is targeting potential terrorist phone calls. Not you and me, unless you are talking with terrorists, which I dont believe any of you are. I just want clarification so I know exactly what you are refering to when you are saying Americans rights are being infringed.



Ok well let's try playing a little game. Give the government your full name in an anonymous email and say that you think this person "may" be a terrorist or have an association with Bin Laden. You don't even have to give any particulars just a simple "I think, maybe, and might be" will suffice. Then get back with us about how your civil liberties are not being infringed upon.

[edit on 20-1-2006 by kajuroe]

Kajuroe that would be an irresponsible action. Why in the world would you, or anyone for that matter, do such a thing? It sounds like some people are getting dangerously close to slipping over the edge of rationalization.

[edit on 22-1-2006 by Astronomer68]

Originally posted by ludaChris
But I'm just not seeing where your average everyday American is having their rights infringed.

Lots of avarage everyday Americans in California, who voted in by a good margin prop 215, are being persicuted and arrested for using their prescribed, and medicaly aproved, medicine. Some counties are even refusing to abide by the state law by not allowing medical marijuana. So much for democracy and the law.

Lots of average everyday native Americans have their right violated constantly.

Lots of average everyday Americans, who for whatever reason are homeless, have their rights violated everyday.

Lot's of average everyday Americans who volunteered to go fight for your freedom (hmmm) have had their rights violated by being used as guinnea pigs, we didn't sign up for that.

Lots of Average everyday American who faught the good fight in Iraq are having their rights violated everyday by the VA system. Go ask one who has Gulf War Illness, actualy you can ask me.

3000 avarage everyday Americans rights were violated when they were murdered by your government on September the 11th.

Lots of average everyday Americans rights are violated in jail for comiting no crime other than smoking a joint.

Many of you internet using average everday Americans have just had your right to privacy violated by bush himself. Keep holding out Google!

Need any more, there is more. Those are just general purpose.

[edit on 22/1/2006 by ANOK]

Originally posted by dgtempe

Hello!!? Ever built a snowball, roll it around so it gets bigger and bigger? Well, that part is complete. All we need now is the scarf and the carrot.

Don't Forget the Old Silk Hat... you know you need its magic.

Originally posted by ANOK

Need any more, there is more. Those are just general purpose.

[edit on 22/1/2006 by ANOK]

Don't forget the news only a week or two ago about the illegalization of Internet Harassment (Which includes being a complete jerk on web forums).

Oh, and the Supreme Court hearing on appropriating private property for Commercial Use by Corporate Entities (Funnily enough, one of the Supreme Court Justices had their land set up for appropriation after the hearing).

We have wiretaps being conducted against american citizens... regardless of if this has gone on in the past, it has never been right. All people are Innocent until proven Guilty in America.

C'mon, let's come up with more things! I know I didn't name them all! Let's dig, people!

ANOK: It was said once that you can judge how civilized a nation is by how they treat their criminals... I would argue this is absolutely true.

It is very easy to emotionally desire to denie criminals (And even specific criminals who are considered the worst sort of offenders) the same rights as you may have... why is this? Because the human psyche wishes to distance itself from harmful phenomenon, so we dehumanize people who we are either afraid of being like, or whom we wish to believe are less than human.

There are some crimes, depending on who you talk to, which are unforgiveable, and to which some people want to deny these people their humanity because they've been personally hurt by someone who committed such a crime, or know someone who had it done to them.

And still other crimes which people feel are monstrous in the act itself, but which are then propogated by that hatred they display, creating a cycle of continually increasing monstrousity and suffering. Hate destroys, it can never help.

And when it comes down to it... the people we revile are where such robberies of our rights will take place first. It's completely understandable to a lot of people to register all serious criminals, murderers, rapists in a national database... but that means you have done away with paying for your crimes. You have then created a system which persists in continuing punishment for a persons entire life.

There are many rational arguments to support such systems, such ideas... but in the end, it is just one small step towards oppression.

What benefits a man that he gain the world but lose his soul?

Originally posted by TheCrystalSword
ANOK: It was said once that you can judge how civilized a nation is by how they treat their criminals... I would argue this is absolutely true.

I would agree with that as well, and it has also been said that you can judge how civilised a nation is by how they treat their animals.

I invite folks to go visit a vivisection lab. I have many times, but they weren't friendly visits...

Most folks don't notice other peoples rights being violated, only their own.
Other people rights are trivialised and not of their concern.

I know you've all heard this before;

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Martin Niemoller