Bush preparing for a police state?, page 1

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Topic started on 14-10-2005 @ 10:18 AM by Thomas Crowne

We already have a police state, we have just been re-educated to think that things are right and good in the U.S., that's all. The question is, though, is Bush prepping for the ante to be upped?

"Congressman Ron Paul has accused the Bush administration of attempting to set in motion a militarized police state in America by enacting gun confiscation martial law provisions in the event of an avian flu pandemic. Paul also slammed as delusional and dangerous plans to invade Iran, Syria, North Korea and China."

www.prisonplanet.com...

Con. Paul goes furtrher to say that big government flourishes when Reps are in office. We know this isn't the only time, and we also know that the Clinton years saw some pretty bad hits against the constitution and pretty much created the scene for this administration to take it even further.
Point of the matter is, Congressman Paul needs to understand that the Dems and Reps work in concert against us, for the benefit of the elite.

Or is it that he needs to realize that we are on to him and his buddies and aren't going to be duped by the sport of politics any longer?

[edit on 14-10-2005 by Thomas Crowne]

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 10:31 AM by Benevolent Heretic

I could not agree with you more, Thomas Crowne. Mark your calendars!

"I think there's a lot more excitement coming and it's not going to be good for the Republicans," stated Paul.

"The things that I hear have to do with Karl Rove and Abramoff and that's much much worse than anybody would believe and it involves DeLay as well."

"And that type of an indictment will be much more serious than the indictment of shifting campaign funds around.....there's some political infighting which could make that really interesting."

Would you hand over your firearms to these men?

I'm not sure why the administration (or more accurately, those pulling the strings of the administration) want a police state or totalitarian control, but as Skeptic Overlord pointed out in the Overview #9 PODcast, I suspect it has something to do with the 2006 elections. How can we have an election (and vote out the people who are supporting this administration) if the country is in such a shambles - what with the Avian Flu Pandemic and Marshal law?

Think of the threat that this coming election could present to this administration's currently unchecked and unbalanced control of this country.

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 10:52 AM by Thomas Crowne

Oh, here's something I missed last month:

"NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 8 - Waters were receding across this flood-beaten city today as police officers began confiscating weapons, including legally registered firearms, from civilians in preparation for a mass forced evacuation of the residents still living here.

No civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns or other firearms, said P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police. "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons," he said."

www.globalnewsmatrix.com...

"But that order apparently does not apply to hundreds of security guards hired by businesses and some wealthy individuals to protect property. The guards, employees of private security companies like Blackwater, openly carry M-16's and other assault rifles. Mr. Compass said that he was aware of the private guards, but that the police had no plans to make them give up their weapons. "

Excuse me? The citizens were not "allowed" to exercise their God given, constitutionally protected right, yet corporations were allowed?

Gee, could this be a frontrunner for what will be coming to a town near you?

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 12:15 PM by ThichHeaded

Alex Jones has been saying for a few months that they have already confinscated weapons in Illinois and somewhere else.. I cant remember. He has said it on his radio station..

I havent found any news on this so I dont know how true it is, if anyone has any info on this it would be good to have..

And I already knew about this in NO.. I wonder how much futher we are going to be taken down..

Anyone wanna bet there wont be an election in 08???

[edit on 10/14/2005 by ThichHeaded]

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 12:37 PM by Thomas Crowne

LOL! Sure, they'll be an election, just like the lastr few elections - nothing but for show and to allow people the illusion that they have some say-so in the process. That illusion is an important one for "them" (and you know who they are) to maintain.

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 12:52 PM by magnito_student

Just goes to show ya. People really shouldn't laugh at these folks. (Alex and Congressman Ron Paul).

I do admit that much of the wisecracks about tinfoil hats and conspiracy "theories", black helicopters etc have been cut in half and many of the ones that did make the jokes are now spreading the message that something very wrong is going on.
I think we have all been trained on how the "info" is presented, the overall "presentation" rather than the substance. We have been taught to trust the pretty people with lights and music playing in the background rather than the info. Anyone that first sees Alex Jones immediately thinks he is nuts but like he said, 98% of what he says is hard core (fact). I live in Austin and have run into Alex many of times at the grocery store and he is a great guy. Like he says, he could just be part of the system and make buttt loads of money and drive around thinking hes cool in a Mercedes rather than getting the message out.

But i can gurantee ya one thing. If martial law does happen many professional military folks wont go along with it...they are already somewhat p-oed. I think if you were to ask Colin Powell to get real honest he would say yeahh,,,Im p-oed, but they threatened my family and now is not the time.

[edit on 14-10-2005 by magnito_student]

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 01:15 PM by Thomas Crowne

Here's a bit of info that makes me feel a little better about the NRA.

Don't get me wrong, I still say they don't want to solve the problem but sell the band-aides for a long, money-collecting time, but this is very good!

www.nraila.org...

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 01:34 PM by phoenixhasrisin

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Oh, here's something I missed last month:

"NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 8 - Waters were receding across this flood-beaten city today as police officers began confiscating weapons, including legally registered firearms, from civilians in preparation for a mass forced evacuation of the residents still living here.

No civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns or other firearms, said P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police. "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons," he said."

www.globalnewsmatrix.com...

"But that order apparently does not apply to hundreds of security guards hired by businesses and some wealthy individuals to protect property. The guards, employees of private security companies like Blackwater, openly carry M-16's and other assault rifles. Mr. Compass said that he was aware of the private guards, but that the police had no plans to make them give up their weapons. "

Excuse me? The citizens were not "allowed" to exercise their God given, constitutionally protected right, yet corporations were allowed?

Gee, could this be a frontrunner for what will be coming to a town near you?

Like every law in the land, there has to be a loophole. I know people who get their business licenses just to avoid retail prices, join certain wholsale clubs, etc, etc. I am sure you have to know someone that has become a gun dealer just to legally be able to own more guns, and to get them at a cheaper price. Perhaps the answer to something like the above could be to start ones own private security company. Who knows how much start-up cost would be? I am sure that if split between a few friends the price would be well worth it though, especially if given carte blanche by the government to keep and publicly carry arms.

It's obvious that this country is no longer about the citizen, as if it really ever was. It is time to stop complaining about constitutional violations that are only going to get worse. The time has come to get informed and find the loopholes that will allow one to maintain their freedoms, legally that is. Then when the time to break the law comes, you will not find yourself unarmed and unawares like most.

[edit on 14-10-2005 by phoenixhasrisin]

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 01:41 PM by marg6043

TC They can tried to take away our rights to bear arms but I doubt that the people will give it up that easily.

If something like any epidemic comes around the first thing that most people will do is arm themselves to the teeth, for protection.

I think that if it comes this far is going to be some angry citizens around.

I still have faith in my fellow Americans to uphold their principles.

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 02:53 PM by American Mad Man

I completely agree that the 2nd amendment is being circumvented in New Orleans.

However TC, I would like to know why you believe we currently live in a police state. Last I checked, I can travel without papers, talk about any subject I wish, etc...

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 03:04 PM by kenshiro2012

AMM,
Actually, this is something that will soon be comming to an end in the US.
When Patriot Act version 2 is enacted, they are looking to have a National identification card which an American will have to use in order to travel withing the US using the public transportation systems.
Another usurping of rights is that the various federal law enforcement agencies no longer need to get a search warrant before entering your home or place of buisness. Anything that they find during the search can be used later not only to get a normal search warrant but they can also use it to prosecute you.
This has already occured. There recently was a ATSSN news article on how the FBI (I believe) searched the home of two people, later got a search warrant and then prosecuted them for drug trafficing.
The origional reason for the laxity of the need for federal warrants was origionally presented as a method to track down terrorists.
To date, these no warrant searches have not been directed towards possible terrorists. At least that people know about.

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 03:47 PM by whaaa

To think that the neo-cons or the religious right are going to give up their power for something so mundane as an election in O8 is folly. I f they can pull off instiuting a police state they damn sure will try. But they underestimate the independence of the American man in the street. I honestly feel the Christian Right and the neo-cons feel they have a DEVINE right to steer this country back to God as they understand him. If a few innocent people suffer in their endevor, tough, it's Gods' will. I hope that this is just outlandish paranoia; we will see soon enough.

It's a brave new world!

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 03:50 PM by BlackBeard

I agree with the man on this statement: "If we don't change our ways we will go the way of Rome and I see that as rather sad." For the simple reason that no democratic society has ever lasted longer than 300 years, at least not that I am aware of. Rome fell before the 300 year mark and the way things are going now I would not be surprised if the same would happen to us. (If I am wrong on this some one please correct me)

But if they would even try to take away US citizens guns then there is going to be a big problem. That is why the 2nd Amendment came to be, for the right of the Citizens to rise up against their Government if the need arose. I know that where I live the Militia’s are out there almost every weekend training and what not, practicing the right giving to them by our Fore Fathers. I think they are a little crazy, but I also know that there will be many US military personnel the will never fire on another American unless the need arose.

As of now, we are not in a police state. I have many weapons, I have all sorts of guns and the only way they will take them from me is if I commit a felony, and that is it.

Here is another statement that Bush made that he CAN not due, it is against the law and if I am not mistaken an impeachable offense: Paul responded to President Bush's announcement last week that he would “order the use of military assets to police America in the event of an avian flu outbreak”.

Sorry, but Active Duty or Reserve Military can not bare arms on US soil with loaded weapons unless they are just training. So this is where I would come into the picture being in the National Guard since we are controlled by our respective State’s and that states governor.

I could have saved myself a lot of time with this if I would have seen this statement first: “doing away with Posse Comitatus in order to deal with natural disasters, and hardly anybody says anything” Well of course not a lot of people say anything, the majority of the Americans are too happy with their BMW’s and other material objects to even care about what might happen in the future or near future.

How long were US Flags flown in front of house after 9/11? A month? Maybe two? That just goes to show that most Americans do not care if it does not directly involve them or their material objects.
Ok, sorry for that folks, got on a bit of a tirade.

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 04:54 PM by kenshiro2012

Actually the National Guard was used back in May 1975 at Kent State. Yes they were armed and yes they used those weapons.

The Whiskey Rebellion back in 1794
and of course, lets not forget the Civil War.
So yes, the US military does indeed have an historical basis for bearing arms on US soil and against the US citizen.

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 11:06 PM by Amethyst

What concerns me is the sheeple.

You have professing Christians who think that you should never bear arms or kill anyone under ANY circumstances. So it'll be all too easy to take guns from them--if they even have any.

Yet Peter carried a sword with him. Jesus did not rebuke him for having one; He rebuked him for cutting off that guy's ear. It was Jesus' time to make His sacrifice and Peter was trying to keep Jesus from getting killed.

Look at Luke 22:36--Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

reply posted on 14-10-2005 @ 11:49 PM by Rasputin13

I certainly hope that Bush does not pave the way for martial law, regardless of the reason. The American people as a whole have a right to bear arms and that right should never be infringed upon. However, I will always feel that not all of us are entitled to own a gun- convicted criminals, illegal aliens, mentally ill, etc. To remove guns from an entire population indiscriminantly is completely wrong and will never happen without a large number of gun owners revolting against it (I myself do NOT currently own a firearm).

While I personally find the likelyhood of this occurring as a result of the Bird Flu to be small, I find it extremely unlikely that we would invade Iran, Syria, North Korea and China. Even the world's most extremely dillusional "neocon" can see that we'd stand very little to no chance of being successful in such war efforts simultaneously. Fighting China alone would be a handful, let alone fighting the large brainwashed military and citizen armies of North Korea. I think this is a scare tactic by someone who has been slighted by the Republican party or the American leadership, or it is the innocent ramblings of an easily convinced and possibly mentally damaged individual.

That's just my 2 cents.

reply posted on 15-10-2005 @ 03:14 AM by cargo

From what I can see, the 2nd Amendment has already been infringed upon (NO). These appear to be water testing excercises. Something along the lines of frogs in boiling water comes to mind. I just don't think there are enough alert and action ready Americans currently prepared to do anything about this. Not enough to hold the gov accountable anyway. They would be put down faster than a rabid dog. I'm sure there are plenty around, just not enough. By the time enough come around, that water will be at boiling point.

Anyway, the Playstation 3 is coming out soon and the NFL season has just started. To many short term distractions to look forward to.

reply posted on 15-10-2005 @ 12:31 PM by Amethyst

Rasputin--I wouldn't hold a gun from a convicted criminal. Why? Because like the term "terrorist," the term "convicted criminal" seems to have a broad definition.

Take Mark Fuhrman for example. He got the shaft in the OJ case. I don't think he was racist at all.

But that aside, he was convicted of perjury--and now as a result he can't own a firearm. Now how stupid is that?

You know, if you've been convicted of a crime, and you did your time and are now free, you should have the same right to self-defense as anyone else.

reply posted on 15-10-2005 @ 01:11 PM by Sauron

Just a minor snippet from BIRD FLU, LIBERTY, AND QUARANTINE by Dr. Madeleine Cosman, Ph.D., JD
I thought it might interest some members.
I myself do not believe in flu shots, so if I was an American I guess I would be taken way / locked up

President Bush is asking Congress to supersede the American traditional possee comitatus and allow federal use of armed troops to perform the police function of keeping sick people in and well people out of those streets, towns, cities, or sections of the country where Bird Flu will rage, sicken, and kill.
~~
The Patriot Act has a clause that allows a Governor to declare a state of medical emergency that imposes martial law, requires each person’s submission to the National Guard, demands relinquishing of personal firearms, and mandates involuntary vaccination, treatment, or quarantine. The President wants to commandeer each state’s National Guard and with the military perform those acts in case of Bird Flu
~~
The United States through the National Institutes of Health has contracted with two firms, Chiron Corporation in Emeryville, Califorina, and Sanofi Pasteur in France, for a mere 4 million doses of vaccine. In the best of circumstances, if Bird Flu H5N1 becomes pandemic, the vaccine could protect only a mere 5% of our population.
~~
Who in America will decide who gets what vaccine or medicine? Power to decide determines who lives and who dies. Will rationing be by age? By wealth? By social position? Will first responders and the military get first doses, as the current plan now provides? Who in government gets protected? Who rejected? Who far down in the local chain of command is considered “critical” to protect and who is expendable? Do city mayors get protection? Town councilmen? All physicians? All police and fire-fighters? All garbage collectors? Do you count?

www.newswithviews.com...