You will not not die if...

Below was a quote of Jesus I think from the Nag hummandi texts. I was curious anyone familar with it would care to explain and thoughts they have.

punkyskunk.com...

These are the secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke and Didymos
Judas Thomas recorded.

1. And he said, "Whoever discovers the interpretation of these sayings
will not taste death."


_________

I kind of think there is something to this. Not just having faith in relaying in others but discovering a hidden secret in yourself. You will need to take your mind past the realms of law and man made concept and accept. Now get that '___' flowing in the pineal gland and see what I am talking about...

[edit on 13-10-2005 by japike]

You are heading down a dark path of lies and damnable heresies, turn back to the truth of God before it’s too late.


A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

Heh my whole life has been a dark path! Just trying to shed some light on it.

I see that the Catholic church doesn't agree with gnostic texts and back in the days they would kill you if you read them! thats crazy! Why though?

I don't understand what is wrong with them?
A lot of them make sense. What am I missing?

I mean back in Christ days I doubt anyone was running around hiding texts of stuff made up. If that was the case we could just as easy question the bible no?

GNOSTICISM AND THE GNOSTIC JESUS

www.equip.org...

www.equip.org...

www.equip.org...


While you read these documents remember this, if you refuse to believe the truth the only thing left for you to believe is a lie.

A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

Machine,
Could you stop with the damnation talk please? You are starting to remind me of the guy from the pit and the pendulum and it's creeping me out. Perhaps you could ease up on the scare tactics [fear is the path to the dark side..] and try sharing the love like Jesus preached.. you'd be more likely to win converts that way.

Japike,
If you haven't seen it, I recomend you see a movie called 'Stigmata' pretty much sums up why the Catholic church would cover such a text up.
The message is basically that god can be found anywhere and you don't need a church.. if they suddenly announced it were credible.. they'd be throwing away their power.

[edit on 14-10-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by japike
I don't understand what is wrong with them?
A lot of them make sense. What am I missing?

I mean back in Christ days I doubt anyone was running around hiding texts of stuff made up. If that was the case we could just as easy question the bible no?

Nothing is wrong with them. They have been translated directly from Coptic, and are logically more reliable than the translations in the bible.

It is even easier to question the bible....

A lot of those 'sayings' can be cross-referenced and confirmed with the canon--that is, if you are seeking to understand and are guided by a desire to find truth instead of seeking justification for indoctrinated ideations and theologies (such as those who preach hell instead of love!)

If you want to talk about any of them, post one and I can explain what I know and we can go from there.

Riley,
Could you stop with the damnation talk please? You are starting to remind me of the guy from the pit and the pendulum and it's creeping me out. Perhaps you could ease up on the scare tactics [fear is the path to the dark side..] and try sharing the love like Jesus preached.. you'd be more likely to win converts that way.

The Jedi Knights in a fictional universe say, “Fear is a path to the dark side” but my Bible says otherwise.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

When I warn you of Hell and plead with you to repent and turn to Jesus Christ that is a great demonstration of my love towards you. Jesus himself spoke more of Hell than He did of Heaven. I have no power to win converts as you say only the Holy Ghost can move a hard heart towards repentance. I simply deliver His message and pray that God will work in your heart to bring you to Him.

Riley, if you no longer wish to hear the truth in love you are free to place me on your ignore list and you’ll be free of me forever.


A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

You know, it's interesting. The claim is that it is the Gnostic gospels that are more reliable than those contained in the Bible. There's the gospel of Mary, the gospel of Thomas, Peter, etc. All the big players who experienced Christ first hand had a gospel named after them. Erm...I'm sorry, they "authored" the gnostic gospels. The synoptic gospels that are in the Bible (Matthew, Mark, Luke) were written by three very unusual "heroes". We have Matthew, the hated tax collector's account of his experience with Christ (tax collectors at the time made their money by collecting more taxes than the government required. They were encouraged to get as much as they could, and that was their primary salary.) Then we have Mark and Luke, neither of whom were with Christ during his 3 and a half year ministry. Yet, these were the books the early church used (before Constantine), and were taught before they were written.

Then there's the gospel of John, the only Biblical gospel whose authorship is in question. It is not known for certain if it was John the Apostle who wrote it, or John the Elder. Depending on who you talk to, they have their beliefs. After looking into this matter into some depth, I've come to believe it was John the Apostle, but that's just my opinion.

Why would the Bible, if it was a covert subversive attempt at changing the story of Christ, use these rather unexpected individuals instead of renaming the books to be things like, Peter, Nathan, John, and Simon? Why would they, at a time when women were not even allowed to testify in courts as witnesses, say that it was women who first saw Christ had risen? Why would they put in a message that all things are now lawful under Christ? If this was subterfuge, the "evil" church Constantine "created" could have done a far, far better job.

114. Simon Peter says to them: Let Mary depart from among us, for women are not worthy of the life. Yeshua says: Behold, I shall inspire her so that I make her male, in order that she herself shall become a living spirit like you males. For every female who becomes male shall enter the kingdom of the heavens.

The text being quoted in the first post comes from the kind and knowledgeable people who brought you verse 114 from the gospel of Thomas.

Originally posted by Machine
The Jedi Knights in a fictional universe say, “Fear is a path to the dark side” but my Bible says otherwise.

I consider your bible to just a vague book of myths, parabells and teachings so you read into it only what you want to. The 'Darkness and fear' thing is actually a buddhist concept. Negative actions create negative consequences. I am glad Mr Lucas created something that would teach new generations the virtues of compassionate spirituality rather than what continues to cause bloodshed.

When I warn you of Hell and plead with you to repent and turn to Jesus Christ that is a great demonstration of my love towards you.

No. It is something you do to try empower yourself by dominating and judgeing other people. I have met kind christians. They do not judge.. are loving and will offer a hand rather than pointing the finger. It is easy for you to point the finger because that is how you can avoid being accountable [to yourself] for you own actions.. you're too busy keeping count on everyone else's. Someone asked an innocent question and you proceeded to tell them they are going to hell so clearly you are not in it for 'gods glory' but your own. Don't worry.. there are a few on these boards that have the same attitude.

Jesus himself spoke more of Hell than He did of Heaven. I have no power to win converts as you say only the Holy Ghost can move a hard heart towards repentance.

Repent for what?

I simply deliver His message and pray that God will work in your heart to bring you to Him.

Your version of 'jesus' is hateful which is more reason why I want not part of it.

Riley, if you no longer wish to hear the truth in love you are free to place me on your ignore list and you’ll be free of me forever.

Sorry.. it is not in my nature to ignore biggotry.

[edit on 14-10-2005 by riley]

Although it's off topic, I would like to say one thing regarding the "hellfire and brimstone" method of spreading the word. For me at least, it's always been a big spiritual turn off; if the supreme being is so human as to allow people to be tortured for eternity, I don't see much there worth worshipping. That's something I'd expect out of a person, not a creator.

What, exactly, is meant by "fear of the LORD"?

Thanks

Originally posted by MCory1
f the supreme being is so human as to allow people to be tortured for eternity, I don't see much there worth worshipping. That's something I'd expect out of a person, not a creator.

That is what I've been thinking lately too. If there is an all powerful, all knowing creator, why would he torture his creation for all eternity? Also why would Satan, who resents God, carry out God's punishment on people? Would he not take those he can get to go away from God to live eternity in pleasureable sin instead of punishing them?

Umanohone
What, exactly, is meant by "fear of the LORD"?

The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary gives the following definitions for the word, “fear”.

1 archaic : FRIGHTEN
2 archaic : to feel fear in (oneself)
3 : to have a reverential awe of
4 : to be afraid of : expect with alarm
intransitive senses : to be afraid or apprehensive
- fear•er noun


Christians come to accept and follow Jesus Christ for many different reasons but all true Christians fear God. This type of fear may start off as a very real fear of God’s wrath and His judgment. It eventually transforms into an extreme reverential awe of God as the Christians relationship and knowledge of God increase.

When the Bible states that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom it simply means that when you find yourself starting to really fear God you are on a path that could lead you to repentance and forgiveness. People who hate God or simply refuse to acknowledge Him have no fear of Him. They go on living as if their day of judgment will never come. Because of this they never find themselves on a path towards God that often starts in fear and ends in forgiveness. To have wisdom is to live your life in a right relationship with God and the fear of God often starts a man down this path.

Many who post on this forum think that those Christians who do not warn others of God’s wrath are somehow more loving. They refuse to acknowledge God’s holiness and only want to accept the things of God which appeal to their sinful nature and desires. A true Christian warns the people that they are heading for Hell and tries to convince them to turn around before it’s too late. I too was an unrepentant sinner before I came to Jesus Christ and begged for mercy and forgiveness. I feared God and in my despair over spending an eternity in Hell I cried out to Jesus Christ and He heard me and forgave my sin.

If you do not fear God then you do not know God it’s as simple as that.

Members on this forum keep asking me to stop talking about Hell and complain that this is not a loving thing to do. But it is this very love that they deny I have for them that keeps me coming back. For those of you who think that I lack Christian love let me ask you a question. If you knew that a building was going to be burned to the ground and all the people inside were going to die but you still had time to warn them, “what would you do?” Would you, “lovingly” walk away for fear of upsetting the residents or disturbing their sleep? What if you did the right thing and tried to wake them up and warn them and in show of thanks they called you a liar, cussed you out and slammed the door in your face, “what would you do then?” A few tenants believe your warning and leave the building but the rest stay inside comfortable in their ignorance. You would probably be justified at this point to simply walk away but maybe in your heartfelt desire to save those people you would run up and down the halls screaming at the top of your lungs for them to, “Get out!”

If you loved them you would do anything to get them out of that burning house, “so why do so many on this forum think that I lack Christian love for doing the same?”


A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

From what I've been told, Hell was never intended for humans, it was created for Satan and his angels/demons, unfortunately Satan has spread sin all over the world by using us.

I suppose there has to be a hell, if Heaven had demons and evil spirits rampant than it wouldn't be that great of a place...

Recently I was lead to believe that Hell is not so much of a toture chamber for eternity but more of a Purgatory type thing, limbo until the final judgement.

Originally posted by JKersteJr
From what I've been told, Hell was never intended for humans, it was created for Satan and his angels/demons, unfortunately Satan has spread sin all over the world by using us.

That's right--that is 'Tartaros'--it is supposedly underneath the terra firma--where certain lawless ones are held in chains ever since the antedeluvian era came to an end.
Then directly above that is the area of the ground where we bury our dead. This was the 'hell' of the OT--basically the grave or pit. A more shallow pit than Tartaros.

Those beings are the 'vessels fitted for wrath.' I've had an incredible amount of information revealed to me in the last few years, but the specifics on this are still pretty much in shadow--but as far as I can tell at the present time, these were created for the express purpose of being 'made an example.' And they are angels, as well--and even in their rebellion they are doing exactly as God wills and I truly believe that their end will be appropriate to them and that no part of the whole that was originally God in the beginning (which includes all angelic beings as well as every human soul) was created for any cruel purpose, only life. God is the God of the Living, not the dead. God is efficient and not at all of the character those such as Machine believe Him to be. Such a God would not be worthy of praise or glory.

Jesus does not speak of 'hell' more than heaven--He spoke of the grave (hades in the NT) and He spoke of the Kingdom. A kingdom is defined by it's subjects and it's ruler--not it's location. Territories come and go in earthly kingdoms, and so we cannot expect any difference in the spiritual realm. What is material is a shadow, an echo, of the spiritual. The confusion of these things lies in both the human nature's limited perception as well as the flesh's propensity for untruth. If 'hell' is the grave, it is also death. Therefore, 'heaven' is life and the consciousness thereof.

Jesus spoke most of all about loving one another and the basic underlying principle of all His teachings is the necessity for humanity to overcome the evil of this world with love--every negative balance can only be made right with positive recompense. No good comes from keeping score with one another or seeking revenge or 'paybacks.'

As far as proper exegesis of the current vernacular of biblical terms, in my studies I have discovered an amazing amount of discrepancies between the words originally used and what they meant at the time they were used and the words now commonly believed to be their translations. Here are some examples:

fear = respect
salvation = rescue
repent = turn away from
faith = integrity and making good on a vow or promise made
believe = trust
meek = gentle
judgment = discernment in some cases, in others it means reaching a verdict
condemnation and damnation = punishment of a rehabilative nature
church = assembly
elect = those called out of the assembly to serve the others
witness = to demonstrate proof
gentile = anyone who doesn't worship the Living God
deacon = someone who serves others
presbyter = elder
world = can mean either age, humanity, or the earth

There are more, those are just off the top of my head.

It is amazing to me that Greek and Hebrew are taught in theological programs and seminaries, yet no one of the pulpit seems to acknowledge the correct interpretation of these things.

Two more things:

I have never been 'afraid' of God. I have found comfort in the thought of Him when there was no other comfort in this world for me--not a frequent occurrence, but a few hard times in my life were overcome because of a verse I have treasured ever since I first read it as a child; it is the last half of Matthew 28:20

'And lo, I will be with you, even unto the end of the Age.'

Why should I be afraid of God? He loves me. However I the respect I have for His power and might is beyond my ability to describe. God knows no impossibility--nor does He reject any who sincerely seek Him. Many souls in this world have become disillusioned and even broken-hearted because they feel He has let them down--but these things are the doing of man, in God's name. Not everyone that comes in His name is sent from Him--in fact more often than not it is a hi-jacked referral.

Think about this:

In 3 of the gospels it is written that Jesus said that we should take care not to be deceived because many would come in His name, saying He was the Christ and would deceive many.

Most interpret it to say that many would come claiming to be the Christ. That's wrong--it was a direct warning against just believing that all who claimed His name, just because they claimed His name.

I got off the subject there, sorry--I just meant to say I've not been afraid of my God, and I know that He desires us to draw near to Him--how can we draw near if we are too scared to do so?

My second thing was that I believe that Mary Magdalene wrote the fourth Gospel as well as the 3 epistles credited to John. The energy and tone of the writing is not masculine at all. I have a lot more reason for saying this, but I won't derail this thread with the details.

Originally posted by queenannie38
My second thing was that I believe that Mary Magdalene wrote the fourth Gospel as well as the 3 epistles credited to John. The energy and tone of the writing is not masculine at all. I have a lot more reason for saying this, but I won't derail this thread with the details.

Please do .

Or at the very least start a new thread!

Queenannie38,
In 3 of the gospels it is written that Jesus said that we should take care not to be deceived because many would come in His name, saying He was the Christ and would deceive many.

Most interpret it to say that many would come claiming to be the Christ. That's wrong--it was a direct warning against just believing that all who claimed His name, just because they claimed His name.

I marvel at the lengths to which you will go to strangle your own private interpretation out of simple scripture. Your view on this scripture is clearly wrong and if believed leaves a seeker of Jesus Christ open to the worst kind of vulnerability. There are other scriptures which warn us as Christians to make right judgments when we are trying to determine if someone is truly a Christian or just a Christian by label. Jesus warned us that false doctrines, false prophets and distortions of the truth would come in full force during the last days which we are in.

You, Queenannie38 are one of the types of people that Jesus Christ warned us about. You take the clear and simple gospel and pervert it into a lie. Let’s take a look at your false interpretation of the scripture you quoted above.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

If this scripture merely said,

“Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name *** go ye not therefore after them.”

Then you might almost be able to pull your interpretation out of it.



But it doesn’t say that does it. It reads simply and plainly,

“Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.”

This is a clear and simple warning by Jesus Christ to all followers and future followers of Him to be aware that others will come after Him and claim to be the Christ (or God). He warns us not to follow those people who make claims to a title that is His alone. Many people have come and gone claiming to be God or The Christ or to have a Christ conscience and Jesus warned us about them all. This lie will take its greatest form in the personhood of the antichrist during the seven year tribulation which is quickly approaching.

You and those who hold to new age teachings do not like this scripture because it warns people to watch out for the coming false antichrist and other heretical teachers. The new age wants everyone to believe that they have a divine nature and a Christ like power within. This is a lie that goes all the way back to the serpent in the garden when Satan lies to Eve and says that she will be just like God if she eats from the forbidden tree.

Again, I post this simple scripture and ask the readers to decide if Queenanni38 is right in her interpretation or if the rest of the Christian world is right.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

A True Christian
In These Last Days,

James

Originally posted by Machine

You, Queenannie38 are one of the types of people that Jesus Christ warned us about.

And you, James, are a prince.

But seriously, how is that, James? Am I a hypocrite? Am I self-glorifying? Am I infected with legalism? Do I condemn or judge anyone?

What exactly am I doing that is so heinous I would be among the bible's most wanted?

You take the clear and simple gospel and pervert it into a lie.

Clear and simple? How is what you say clear and simple? You can't even support it logically nor bridle your tongue from making unjust accusations to anyone who doesn't subscribe to your form of religion.

Let’s take a look at your false interpretation of the scripture you quoted above.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

If this scripture merely said,

“Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name *** go ye not therefore after them.”

Then you might almost be able to pull your interpretation out of it.



But it doesn’t say that does it. It reads simply and plainly,

“Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.”

Now it's my turn--let's do an in-depth examination of every word in one of these verses. By that I am suggesting that each word in English is defined according to what Strong's Concordance lists the Greek translation to properly be.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:5 KJV

• For
  G1063--gar:
  A primary particle; properly assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles): - and, as, because (that), but, even, for indeed, no doubt, seeing, then, therefore, verily, what, why, yet.
  
  
• many
  G4183--polus polos:
  Including the forms from the alternate “pollos”; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverb largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely: - abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare G4118, G4119.
  
  
• shall come
  G2064--erchomai:
  Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] word, e??e?´??µa? eleuthomai or e?´??? eltho¯; which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively): - accompany, appear, bring, come enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.
  
  
• in
  G1909--epi:
  A primary preposition properly meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution [with the genitive case], that is, over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the dative case) at, on, etc.; of direction (with the accusative case) towards, upon, etc.: - about (the times), above, after, against, among, as long as (touching), at, beside, X have charge of, (be-, [where-]) fore, in (a place, as much as, the time of, -to), (because) of, (up-) on (behalf of) over, (by, for) the space of, through (-out), (un-) to (-ward), with. In compounds it retains essentially the same import, at, upon, etc. (literally or figuratively).
  
  
• my
  G3450--mou:
  The simpler from of G1700; of me: - I, me, mine (own), my.
  
  
• name,
  G3686-- onoma:
  From a presumed derivative of the base of G1097 (compare G3685); a “name” (literally or figuratively), (authority, character): - called, (+ sur-) name (-d).
  
  
• saying,
  G3004--lego:
  A primary verb; properly to “lay” forth, that is, (figuratively) relate (in words [usually of systematic or set discourse; whereas G2036 and G5346 generally refer to an individual expression or speech respectively; while G4483 is properly to break silence merely, and G2980 means an extended or random harangue]); by implication to mean: - ask, bid, boast, call, describe, give out, name, put forth, say (-ing, on), shew, speak, tell, utter.
  
  
• I
  G1473--ego:
  A primary pronoun of the first person, “I” (only expressed when emphatic): - I, me. For the other cases and the plural see G1691, G1698, G1700, G2248, G2249, G2254, G2257, etc.
  
  
• am
  G1510--eimi:
  First person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist (used only when emphatic): - am, have been, X it is I, was. See also G1488, G1498, G1511, G1527, G2258, G2071, G2070, G2075, G2076, G2771, G2468, G5600.
  
  
• Christ;
  G5547--Christos:
  From G5548; anointed, that is, the Messiah, an epithet of Jesus: - Christ.
  
  G5548--chrio:
  Probably akin to G5530 through the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, that is, (by implication) to consecrate to an office or religious service: - anoint.
  
  G5530--chraomai:
  Middle voice of a primary verb (perhaps rather from G5495, to handle); to furnish what is needed; (give an oracle, “graze” [touch slightly], light upon, etc.), that is, (by implication) to employ or (by extension) to act towards one in a given manner: - entreat, use. Compare G5531, G5534.
  
  
• and
  G2532--kai:
  Apparently a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so, then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words: - and, also, both, but, even, for, if, indeed, likewise, moreover, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yea, yet.
  
  
• shall deceive
  G4105--planao:
  From G4106; to (properly cause to) roam (from safety, truth, or virtue): - go astray, deceive, err, seduce, wander, be out of the way.
  
  
• many.
  G4183--polus polos:
  Including the forms from the alternate “pollos”; (singular) much (in any respect) or (plural) many; neuter (singular) as adverb largely; neuter (plural) as adverb or noun often, mostly, largely: - abundant, + altogether, common, + far (passed, spent), (+ be of a) great (age, deal, -ly, while), long, many, much, oft (-en [-times]), plenteous, sore, straitly. Compare G4118, G4119.
  

Matthew 24:5 KJV+

I looked up the word ‘Christos’, G5547, down to its fundamental root, because it sheds more light on what He meant by ‘coming in His name.’

This is a clear and simple warning by Jesus Christ to all followers and future followers of Him to be aware that others will come after Him and claim to be the Christ (or God). He warns us not to follow those people who make claims to a title that is His alone. Many people have come and gone claiming to be God or The Christ or to have a Christ conscience and Jesus warned us about them all. This lie will take its greatest form in the personhood of the antichrist during the seven year tribulation which is quickly approaching.

His title alone is the anointed you say. Which is right, He is the Christ—anointed by the Father. So how come you are using His name?

Also--can you provide a list of persons who have come saying they are either God or are The Christ? How many would qualify as 'many' deceiving 'many?'

I’ve never heard of a ‘Christ conscience’ so I’m assuming you mean those who claim ‘christ-consciousness?’ I’m curious as to what you think that means, to those that say it?

There is another point, as well, that doesn’t require a lexicon for identification, all that is required is plain old common sense:
If someone comes impersonating another—do they come ‘in’ that person’s name? To come in the name of someone else does not mean to come as them, it means to come on their authority. It would seem more precise for Christ to have said ‘many will come and they will say they are the Christ’ or ‘they will say there are me’ if He had meant it as you say. He was obviously perfectly mindful of His words—considering the teaching role He had, it would be understandable and even safe to assume that He paid far more attention to His choice of words than other people.

You and those who hold to new age teachings do not like this scripture because it warns people to watch out for the coming false antichrist and other heretical teachers. The new age wants everyone to believe that they have a divine nature and a Christ like power within.

When have you ever heard me to say that all of us have a divine nature and a ‘Christ-like’ power within? If you say you have, then I rightfully request that you provide a quote or a link.

We are told in John’s epistles that we can identify those of the antichrist spirit by two things: if they deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and/or if they do not love others. I do not fit either one of those qualifications—and I never have. I’m certainly not any kind of ‘new age’ improviser; I was baptized at the age of 8 years old in a non-denominational church and it was not something I did for any reasons other than I wanted to follow Christ’s footsteps and I did not want to disappoint God (I didn’t feel He’d send me to hell, ever—I did feel sure that He might be real mad at me when I saw Him if I didn’t do what my heart compelled me to do.) In my 8-year-old understanding I basically understood that to follow Christ was to love others and do what I could to give of myself to others and to not hold grudges or seek revenge. I’m not trying to boast when I say I have followed those two simple things the best I could every day since then, I’m just testifying as to what qualifies me as being begotten of Christ according to what both Christ and John attested to. I wasn’t born with the Spirit of God inside me—I don’t hold with the idea of humans having a divine nature or a ‘christ-like’ power within by default. I know I don’t have anything of the sort—but I do understand that we are all given material life by the virtue of God’s Spirit and spiritual life by Christ’s blood. Any power we receive is given by the Holy Spirit and it is Christ’s, not ours in some form of ‘christ-like’ness. It is as equally important not to deny what He has given as it is to understand and make clear to others that it is not our own, and will always belong to Him.

This is a lie that goes all the way back to the serpent in the garden when Satan lies to Eve and says that she will be just like God if she eats from the forbidden tree.

Again, James, have I ever said anyone can be ‘just like God?’ Remember to provide documentation if you persist with this accusation, as well.

Again, I post this simple scripture and ask the readers to decide if Queenanni38 is right in her interpretation or if the rest of the Christian world is right.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am [Christ]; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

Don’t say the ‘rest of the christian world’, James, because I am not part of that ‘world.’ Just say ‘the christian world.’ Bear in mind, also, that I don’t want anyone to be asked to decide if I am right or wrong—compared to you or anyone else or even by myself--by me or by anyone else. All I ever seek for others is that they be compelled by what I say to investigate further, and it is unjust to make statements that alter my intentions in any way. I don’t need to convince anyone of my interpretation, only to demonstrate the deeper truths of the bible as they differ from what Christianity holds as the ‘gospel’—in order that some might be inspired to search the scriptures as the Bereans did—God doesn’t need me to explain to others, He can do that quite well once the heart has tuned out what men claim He says in order to hear Him for themselves.

I know you’ve read the statements of others who say their biggest discouragement away from God is the idea of hell and torment. If not for the irreconciliable problem that the presentation of Him regarding love vs. mercilessness, they’d be open to Him and be able to enjoy peace of mind in this present age; and eventually be able to share with others the same encouragement found in the love of God. Many feel that if they are going to be sent to hell, they'll take their chances and call the whole thing hogwash. Preaching hell doesn't convince anyone to believing the truth--it only drives them farther away from experiencing God's love. And it's not because they just want to 'sin with impunity'--it's because it hurts their feelings, James--it makes God something they'd rather hate than seek--anything we do that causes or contributes to these kinds of feelings are certainly not to be considered as what is pleasing to God. Why would He send His Son to rescue us and then make the access road as unattractive and contradictory as possible?

Here are some scriptures that fully support what I am saying:

Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1 John 3:16-17 KJV

Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the brethren, and to strangers; Which have borne witness of thy charity before the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, thou shalt do well:
3 John 1:5-6 KJV

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2 Peter 2:1-2 KJV

If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
James 2:8-9 KJV

For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
James 3:2 KJV

For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
James 3:16-17 KJV

These two go a long way toward describing the character of God’s love for all of us and our responsibility toward one another in His name:

Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1 John 4:11-12 KJV

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1 John 4:18 KJV

Perhaps you would be interested in a formal, friendly debate on this board, regarding this subject? I really don’t know how one goes about being able to participate in one here, but maybe you or someone else can fill me in.