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we are never good enough

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posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Or could it be that most ppl when they say bush they don't literily mean just the one man...


That may be what you mean, but how fair is that?

You lump someones whole family together, simply because they are family? You lump everyones buisness partners together, simply because they work together?

That is a rediculous assumption.

Hell, does that mean because the VP at my dads company laundered money, I am now a criminal?

Or because my good friend from HS is now doing 20+ years for cocain distribution, I am a drug dealer?


I mean, you have never in your life met any of these people even once.
You base everything around the fact that they are wealthy and perpetuate their wealth, and a bunch of conspiracy plots. Sure, he may be skull and bones. WHO CARES?

I KNOW A MEMBER. I have known him for 10 years - he is a GOOD PERSON.

Guess what - A LOT OF GOOD HONEST PEOPLE DO THINGS LIKE JOIN EXCLUSIVE CLUBS AND PERPETUATE THEIR WEALTH.




posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 06:54 PM
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There's nothing good and honest about perpetuating wealth. Sorry but that is a very naive assumption.
For someone to gain wealth, someone else has to lose. That's the way it works whether people want to admit to it or not.
That's why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If everyone was wealthy in a capitilist society then the economy would just go to hell.
There is no honesty and fairness in wealth accumilation, just selfish justification for having more than you need while people around you struggle to survive in a World controled by those wealth collectors for the wealth collectors.
The rest of us are just being used to create that wealth for the collecters.

The only reason poor people still won't except the truth is because they are stuck chasing the carrot that isn't there. Chasing money that doesn't exist.

Sorry if "our" use of the bush name upsets you so much. Why do you care so much? Have you ever met him? Do you have some kind of personal reason to make excuses for this SSOS?

I guess some people will support and help spread excuses for anyone in authority. It's the opposite of those that hate authority.
Society teaches us to except and trust authority figures, no matter what they've done. If it was a regular citizen who had done some of the things bush (and his cronies) have done they'd be living in a dark damp cell somewhere with the door welded shut.

Screw the authoritys, be your own authority, you couldn't do any worse what has been done.

AP&F...Is it already too late?

[edit on 19/10/2005 by ANOK]



posted on Oct, 19 2005 @ 08:49 PM
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Originally posted by launchpad

Let the whining liberals and tree huggers go fix the humanitarian problems then when they get killed we'll have that many less to listen to.


With all the problems we have in the USA: sub-standard schools, oppressive anti-freedom legislators, abandonment of disabled military and elderly, criminals with more rights than victims, etc., what the heck are we doing trying to "fix" the rest of the world anyway?

Let the dead bury the dead, the blind lead the blind, and let's focus on fixing our own problems.

Snake



posted on Oct, 20 2005 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by Pyros

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
America needs to change to fit in with the rest of the world instead of trying to control it. Doing this will encourage a lot more global support and appreciation for America and it's efforts. Until then, it's all we can do to avoid getting in your path to self-destruction and trying not to be pulled down with you.


Hmmm. We need to change and try to fit in. Really. Fit in with who? Iran? Cambodia? North Korea? Syria? Libya? Sudan? Bulgaria? China? Venezuela? Cuba? Russia? Angola? If fitting in means becoming more like these places and less like what we are right now, I vote that we don't change a thing, thank you very much....

The world is full of doers and sayers. The US is a country of doers. Our 200 year history makes this fact fairly self-evident. No need to drag out the overly long laundry list.

Sometimes we do the wrong thing. That is the price and risk of being a doer. But our fate is firmly in our own hands, and if we fall to ruin some day, we will at least take comfort in the fact that is was our oun fault, and that we were not victims of another. If Americans are not one thing, we are not a country of victims. Being victimized is the one sole thing that every American finds completely unacceptable. Victimize us and you will feel our wrath. That is not a prideful statement - it is just the way we are constructed, and we talk and act based on this national sense of invulnerability. You are probably right when you say that most Americans feel superior to the rest of the world. That is beause we have seen the rest of the world and we are unconvinced that your alternative ways of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are superior to ours. We know a good thing when we see it. Ours isn't perfect, but its the best available that we've seen.

I, for one, am not interested in "changing" to make the rest of the world happy. Great leaders do not change to suit the desires and wishes of those they lead. They make bold decisions and those who desire to follow will do so. Leadership by example is a sword that cuts both ways, and we are currently in a period were our leadership is alientating more than it is inspiring. That will have to be dealt with, and our government is design to not allow that type of situation to continue. Soon enough BushCo will be gone and things will change for the better, this we know. But if you really think that we will "change" they way we do things in order to "fit in" with the rest of the world, you are wrong. Our forefathers came here to be rid of the like of "the rest of the world". What we set up and now have here is certainly different then everywhere else - and I wouldn't trade it for the world.



This post is beyond way above top secret...

If I could give you all my WATS votes I would, but unfortunately I can only give you one. That was simply awesome.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 05:25 PM
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Well, I try not to worry about it. Other countries will have their opinions, but are they actually coming up with solutions to problems, or just whining about what's happening and hoping someone else comes forward with the manpower and money to fix them?

If a disaster happens, other countries turn to the UN, and they seem to turn to US for aid of one sort or another.

"Pardon me for suggesting it, but America has harmed more of the world than it has fixed. "

And whoever wrote this little gem needs to look around in some books a bit more. I seriously doubt that we did more harm than good.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700
the problem, as i see it, is that nothing the US does will ever be good enough for the rest of the world. let me explain.

in 83, we went into beirut with EMPTY WEAPONS to insure that no soldier accidently started a firefight with either side. we went in for humanitarian reasons because the world was in an outcry over the bloodshed. we ended up with a car bomb killing a huge number of marines and sailors.
then we got blamed for pulling out when the going got rough.

93, somalia. another humanitarian mission due to the world outcry over bloodshed. we had absolutely no other goal than to stop the bloodshed. again, we lost alot of guys over that. again, blamed for pulling out when the going got rough.

95, bosnia. we did stop the bloodshed there. but when we pulled out to take care of our own problems after 9/11, the UN bungled the job. again, we got the blame.

01, afganistan. we had every good reason in the world to be there. we have routed out the radicals and set up a democratic govt. and although we've got a long ways to go, and are still fighting the taliban in spots, we have made definite progress, but its not good enough for the world.

03 - present, iraq. now, as i have said in many other threads, i do not agree with why we went in to begin with. but if we leave now, we will once again be blamed for the bloodshed and civil war that will increase ten-fold. if we stay we get blamed for the present bloodshed.

nothing we ever do will be good enough for the rest of the holier than thou world (who incidently, seems to be content to sit on there backsides and watch the US either fix it or screw it up, and then comment later).

I'll step down off of my soapbox know and take the hits that i now are coming....fire away guys.

edited for typos.

[edit on 13-10-2005 by snafu7700]

[edit on 13-10-2005 by snafu7700]







you got it right brother. hell I would like to see the french or germans do half the job our fine me and women of the armed forces do. but no matter what everybody blames the big bad USA. Why??? cause they were caught in bed with Iraq over the oil for food deal!!!!!!!!!



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
There's nothing good and honest about perpetuating wealth. Sorry but that is a very naive assumption.
For someone to gain wealth, someone else has to lose. That's the way it works whether people want to admit to it or not.


Bull#!

You can provide a service, and other people may decide if they wish to pay for it. If they get what they expected, they win. If they don't they lose, but then the service provider will lose because he will not get repeat buisness.

There is also nothing wrong with protecting your wealth and trying to expand it - nothing at all. When I have extra money, I invest it. I try to perpetuate it. I want my family to be comfortable when I am gone - again, there is nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all.


That's why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.


That is bull # as well. It is up to each individual to make their own life. Both sides of my family came to this country with NOTHING. Litterally a bag of clothing. Now we would be considered 'upper middle' class, or maybe even 'upper class' (what ever the hell that means - I put more stock in a person then I do their wealth when it comes to class).

You know what happened? They joined the military (one of hundreds of ways to get the government to pay for your education), and made sound buisness choices. They perpetuated their wealth. That allowed their kids to do the same, up to my generation where we will get an education, and make sound buisness decisions.

There is honestly no one holding any one else back in this country. You make your own choices. It doesn't mean you will always make the right ones, but you have a chance. If you work hard, you can do very well.



If everyone was wealthy in a capitilist society then the economy would just go to hell.


No, that is patently false because there is a GLOBAL economy, not a closed one. Every American could be rich, and all would be fine. The reality is that not everyone will make the correct choices witht their money, and that is why not everyone can be rich.


There is no honesty and fairness in wealth accumilation, just selfish justification for having more than you need while people around you struggle to survive in a World controled by those wealth collectors for the wealth collectors.


Again, more bull#. What is wrong with saving your money and trying to get it to work for you? I have made my money honestly, and when I am finished with buisness school will make more money honestly, within my countries laws and my own conscience. Because I am smart and save it, I am not honest? That is a load of crap.


The rest of us are just being used to create that wealth for the collecters.


Again, more BS. If someone doesn't want a low paying job, then they need to do something about it. Take a class, use some of the BILLIONS of federal dollars available for private enterprise, join the military and get them to give you more education.



The only reason poor people still won't except the truth is because they are stuck chasing the carrot that isn't there. Chasing money that doesn't exist.


Believe me, it does exist, you just need the will to get it.



Sorry if "our" use of the bush name upsets you so much. Why do you care so much? Have you ever met him? Do you have some kind of personal reason to make excuses for this SSOS?


I care because it is wrong. Would you want people spreading hate propaganda about your family, calling you evil, satanic, etc etc?

Yes, as a matter of fact I have 'met' Bush before, though he would not remember me, nor did I have any kind of in depth discussion with the man.

I haven't made excuses for him. He has several things about him I don't like, but over all I agree with most of his policies.



posted on Oct, 23 2005 @ 09:44 PM
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The problem is American Mad Man you're taking this too personally.
When I say wealth collectors I'm not talking about the average person (you), American or otherwise, who is trying to do well for his family in this capitalist system, that we are all unfortunately forced to participate in, or starve.

No, I'm talking about corporations who's only interest is the profit they make, often to the detriment of their workers and the population of not only the country that corporation is in but the World as a whole.

I'm talking about the corporations that convince us we need their useless products.
Corporations that create situations to create ever new markets that are not there and really not needed. Pharmaceuticals for example.

I'm talking about corporations that rape third world countries so a profit can be made in the west.

I'm talking about corporations that hire child workers at a starvation level wages so they can sell their product to the west again at a profit that only benefits the corporation.

Are you proud of your countries wealth gained from the exploitation of others? Most people in the west have far more than they need to live comfortably, yet feel they don't have enough, the psychology of advertising.

Why can't we get away from this I'm alright Jack screw you? We act like there are only minimal resources in the World and we must grab all we can before it's gone and we're left destitute. That’s BS (is that OK mods?).
It's only like that because of capitalists who keep resources artificially scarce to keep the prices high and their profits rolling in.

The richest 1% own 38% of the wealth in the U.S. (as of 1998).

multinationalmonitor.org...

Why do these people need that much wealth and do they deserve it?
Do you think they work any harder than a 3rd World child making Nike sneakers? Or the guy sweeping your city streets so you don't have to wade through garbage?

Capitalism creates selfishness in its worst form. For the Human race to EVER find peace and survive we need to work together, not against each other.
There is enough wealth and resources in the World for EVERYONE to be comfortable. Problem is some take more than they need.

Cooperation not corporation. People not power. Feed your need not your greed.

AP&F...The only FAIR system




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