we are never good enough

the problem, as i see it, is that nothing the US does will ever be good enough for the rest of the world. let me explain.

in 83, we went into beirut with EMPTY WEAPONS to insure that no soldier accidently started a firefight with either side. we went in for humanitarian reasons because the world was in an outcry over the bloodshed. we ended up with a car bomb killing a huge number of marines and sailors.
then we got blamed for pulling out when the going got rough.

93, somalia. another humanitarian mission due to the world outcry over bloodshed. we had absolutely no other goal than to stop the bloodshed. again, we lost alot of guys over that. again, blamed for pulling out when the going got rough.

95, bosnia. we did stop the bloodshed there. but when we pulled out to take care of our own problems after 9/11, the UN bungled the job. again, we got the blame.

01, afganistan. we had every good reason in the world to be there. we have routed out the radicals and set up a democratic govt. and although we've got a long ways to go, and are still fighting the taliban in spots, we have made definite progress, but its not good enough for the world.

03 - present, iraq. now, as i have said in many other threads, i do not agree with why we went in to begin with. but if we leave now, we will once again be blamed for the bloodshed and civil war that will increase ten-fold. if we stay we get blamed for the present bloodshed.

nothing we ever do will be good enough for the rest of the holier than thou world (who incidently, seems to be content to sit on there backsides and watch the US either fix it or screw it up, and then comment later).

I'll step down off of my soapbox know and take the hits that i now are coming....fire away guys.

edited for typos.

[edit on 13-10-2005 by snafu7700]

[edit on 13-10-2005 by snafu7700]

Agreed. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

I just dont care anymore, I say we adopt the Prime Directive



The Prime Directive dictates that there be no interference with the natural development of any primitive society, It also forbids any effort to improve or change in any way the natural course of such a society, even if that change is well-intentioned and kept totally secret.

We will still be blamed for eveything but atleast we wont be fighting to make things better for a people who woudnt give a second though to slitting our throats while we sleep..

Let em solve there own damned problems..

[edit on 13-10-2005 by C0le]

Originally posted by C0le
The Prime Directive dictates that there be no interference with the natural development of any primitive society, It also forbids any effort to improve or change in any way the natural course of such a society, even if that change is well-intentioned and kept totally secret.


. . . . . .


Let em solve there own damned problems..

Oh amen, amen, amen! Preach on brother!

Let the whining liberals and tree huggers go fix the humanitarian problems then when they get killed we'll have that many less to listen to.

Awww, i think the rest of the world should set aside a day where we all have a little cry for America since they have it so bad.

I don't know how you guys keep getting up in the morning with the knowledge that no matter how much you try, the rest of the world still won't like you.

Maybe the rest of the world should of given America more hugs when it was a child?

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Awww, i think the rest of the world should set aside a day where we all have a little cry for America since they have it so bad.

I don't know how you guys keep getting up in the morning with the knowledge that no matter how much you try, the rest of the world still won't like you.

Maybe the rest of the world should of given America more hugs when it was a child?

maybe, as ive said before, the rest of the world should get off their collective rears from time to time and do something about the problems of the world instead of waiting for us to do it and then slamming us for how we do it.

Originally posted by snafu7700
maybe, as ive said before, the rest of the world should get off their collective rears from time to time and do something about the problems of the world instead of waiting for us to do it and then slamming us for how we do it.

OK, we'll start by abolishing most of the CIA and giving America and political system which is NOT corrupted and owned by corporate business.

You can't be 'the super power' & the 'richest nation on Earth' and not expect to be a major reason for the problems in the world so unfortunatly, for the rest of the world to not have to deal with a lot of the problems facing us, America needs to change dramatically before there's any point in the rest of the world changing their tune.

These types of complaints are classic America. Everyone else should change so they say but they never understand that the biggest and greatest change to the world needs to come out of America first.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Originally posted by snafu7700
maybe, as ive said before, the rest of the world should get off their collective rears from time to time and do something about the problems of the world instead of waiting for us to do it and then slamming us for how we do it.

OK, we'll start by abolishing most of the CIA and giving America and political system which is NOT corrupted and owned by corporate business.

You can't be 'the super power' & the 'richest nation on Earth' and not expect to be a major reason for the problems in the world so unfortunatly, for the rest of the world to not have to deal with a lot of the problems facing us, America needs to change dramatically before there's any point in the rest of the world changing their tune.

These types of complaints are classic America. Everyone else should change so they say but they never understand that the biggest and greatest change to the world needs to come out of America first.

nobody said anything about the rest of the world changing, just picking up the ball a little. you complain and moan about how we handle the problems, but just sit by and watch the problems happen until we step in (unless you can get some money out of it...ie, oil for food...oh, i forgot, we are the only ones who screw up, right?)

America change? why? we have no effect on the world...


How about the EU step up and do things the way they think things should be done?

Or maybe china? id love to see you guys complain to china the same way you complain about us..

Originally posted by C0le
America change? why? we have no effect on the world...


How about the EU step up and do things the way they think things should be done?

Or maybe china? id love to see you guys complain to china the same way you complain about us..

America has no effect on the world? Are you seriously that inept to the rest of the world? That's like saying the moon doesn't affect the ocean.

This kind of ingrained American logic is why America needs to change and i'm sure people who aren't American will understand exactly what i mean.

Originally posted by snafu7700
nobody said anything about the rest of the world changing, just picking up the ball a little. you complain and moan about how we handle the problems, but just sit by and watch the problems happen until we step in (unless you can get some money out of it...ie, oil for food...oh, i forgot, we are the only ones who screw up, right?)

Well i'm Australian and as far as i know, Australia has been pretty much by America's side in most situations but i remember America letting Australia do all the work to annex E. Timor from Indonesia when we asked for help.

The problems in todays world are America's own fault, there was no threat that needed to be removed from Iraq, why the rest of the world should pick up the ball to help America dig itself out of a hole is beyond me - but again, Australia is by your side regardless of public opinion.

If America was a trust worthy country it probably would get more support but there's a good 100 years of history which has paved America's path and given it it's current reputation. When the rest of the world does get involved, it's usually due to bribs, threats or incentives because like the school yard bully, America doesn't win friends because of it's charm.

They say if you want to change others you probably need to change yourself.

just because the us has the greatest army and some of the best technology doesnt mean its army or decisions are going to be perfect! i mean look at us a democracy so blind to look outside of the box going to another country for oil? doesnt make sense, i think its just a hunt for the towel headed!

every county/nation has its flaws. cant forget that things arent perfect. to think so would be insanity!

Its been said many times by the america haters if america dropped of the face of the earth it would have no effect on the rest off the world, Is it right? of course not, But if thats what they think then fine, we should prove them wrong.

/looks to first post.

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis
The problems in todays world are America's own fault, there was no threat that needed to be removed from Iraq, why the rest of the world should pick up the ball to help America dig itself out of a hole is beyond me - but again, Australia is by your side regardless of public opinion.

If you want to play the blame game, you should go back a few decades.

Todays middle eastern problem is the fault of the british, America isnt dragging anyone into a war, the Brits drug America into a war they created half a century ago.. cough isreal cough

and lets not forget the brits history in iraq, cough King Faisal cough




[edit on 13-10-2005 by C0le]

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis

Originally posted by snafu7700
nobody said anything about the rest of the world changing, just picking up the ball a little. you complain and moan about how we handle the problems, but just sit by and watch the problems happen until we step in (unless you can get some money out of it...ie, oil for food...oh, i forgot, we are the only ones who screw up, right?)

Well i'm Australian and as far as i know, Australia has been pretty much by America's side in most situations but i remember America letting Australia do all the work to annex E. Timor from Indonesia when we asked for help.

The problems in todays world are America's own fault, there was no threat that needed to be removed from Iraq, why the rest of the world should pick up the ball to help America dig itself out of a hole is beyond me - but again, Australia is by your side regardless of public opinion.

If America was a trust worthy country it probably would get more support but there's a good 100 years of history which has paved America's path and given it it's current reputation. When the rest of the world does get involved, it's usually due to bribs, threats or incentives because like the school yard bully, America doesn't win friends because of it's charm.

They say if you want to change others you probably need to change yourself.

again, there you go with that change thing....trying to put words in my mouth. youre like a broken record, so i'll say it again: i never said we wanted the other countries in the world to change, just to get off their tails and do something instead of blaming us for trying to help. furthermore, i never said anything about getting help in iraq. i said that no matter what we do at this point, it will be wrong to people like you.

and yes, i know that australia is our ally...you sure dont sound like an ally, but your country is.

All of the wars specified in the first post should not have been started/involved with USA.

Especially Afghanistan and Iraq, I mean bloody 'ell, 2 of the most useless wars ever.

When USA learns that it should keep it's bit fat ugly butt out of everyone else's face, people will once again like them. Or for the first time like them.

BTW. USA isn't the richest country in the world. The people who live in USA may be the richest, but the country itself isn't by a longshot.

No offence towards USA & it's citizens or anything....

Just lends credence to the old addage: "One oh s**t will ruin a hundred atta boys"

Iraq is our current oh s**t.

As I remember, the Mogadishu (Black Hawk Down) battle cause the American public to cry to Clinton to get us the hell out of there, even though we accomplished that mission, and were actually on top of the game overall in that situation.

Even though we have sacrificed our lives and our money in countless humanitarian and policing efforts, people only tend to want to complain about everything that is wrong with any given predicament. The world is pretty negative when it comes to things like conflict, which would seem natural, considering the nature of it. However, it's not very often that anyone talks about the positives that are becoming as a result of our actions in Afghanistan and Iraq, not to mention the other military actions we've undertaken as of late.

Please don't misread me, I'm still pissed as hell at Bush and most of his administration for the reckless and ill-conceived Iraq war. Very angry.

I really don't think we should worry so much about world opinion in these matters as we should our own public's opinion. The rest of the world does like to Monday morning quarterback, and that'll never change. It just seems to me that whenever the going gets rough, it's OUR people that lose intestinal fortitude to carry through, and call on their representatives to make us quit before any of the good that we can do has a chance to last.

Maybe we've lost our stomachs for war, which is sad, because the world hasn't changed that much in the last 200 years that we should be expecting to never go to war again. War is just as much or more a reality for everyone in this world now as it was through the last couple of centuries. And before that, I think everyone just expected there to be a war all the time.

thats what you get for sticking your nose into every pile of poo you can find on the planet



And Cole, youre not ALL THAT, not from the outside. But yeah, everybody knows about american idea of grandiosity, you are so full of yourself its ridiculous.
I think its the lack of history thats bringing you down, you want to write a 1000 years of history in 50 years, and somehow it doesnt work, but still you try, and try....

Originally posted by nukunuku
And Cole, youre not ALL THAT

When/where did i say we were all that?

But yeah, everybody knows about american idea of grandiosity, you are so full of yourself its ridiculous.

Everybody meaning, everyone who's never been to America and talked to Joe Schmoe on the street? You dont know a damn thing about us, Your the same type of person who says we shouldnt believe a word the American media says, yet at the same time selectively chooses, certain aspects of what they say, and use it as a basis of how Americans are..

I think its the lack of history thats bringing you down, you want to write a 1000 years of history in 50 years, and somehow it doesnt work, but still you try, and try....

Flip side of that coin is the rest of the world who has existed as nations, for hundreds/thousands of years, are jealous that a country who as only existed for a few hundred, is runnning the show.

[edit on 13-10-2005 by C0le]

its our obligation seeing as americas technological supremecy could easliy rule the entire planet with the flip of a button, auroras mach 12 capabilities and super hyperosnic sub orbital bombardment crafts. WE OUR THE WORLD YOU GUYS. now its just a matter of controlling everybody else economys. we have direction, its our democractic back bone to listen to the people.