AnarchistSuperstar.....you really need to stay on topic and quite dancing and skirting the issues....that you presented.

Anyways. I believe Israel is a flesh eating cancer. They stole all of Palestines land.

No Justice. No Peace.

regards
seekerof

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar


You know, people prayed for world peace.. hmm.. what happened...


[Edited on 13-9-2003 by AnarchistSuperstar]

Free Will, and the nature of humans.

Something always came before something else. This cycle never stopped.

What do you expect: "I dont know all the past events in infinity, but hey.. I guess that means Zeus exists." No, not really.

Haha. Anti-Semetic? So when the Israelis murder children, I'm supposed to support them? # Israel. # all terrorists, American or otherwise.

I think the word "Anti-Semetic" was invented by people to relieve Israel of any responsibility towards humans. "Yes, these are pictures released of Israelis beating children. But dont you dare critisize us, or you'll be labelled anti-semetic, oh.. I dont want that."

Actually, I think it was a great post. The continued belief into modern times of vengeful spooks in the clouds damning people for natural behavior is Sooooo15th century.

He simply used plain logic. You dont even need to use logic, really to debunk religions.

Just look at the bible. Its hard to believe people really believe this # in this modern age.

However, OBE, and psychic or paranormal phemina is possible. theres some 90% of the human mind that is left a mystery on its purpose and what it can do. magic? Divine intervention? They once thought the same thing about megnetism, solar eclipses, and thunderstorms. Now we understand them.

The psychic phenomina of the human mind someday will be understood as well. Science is still young. wehn you consider that science has been active for only a few hundred years, compared to thousands of years of superstition and myth, science is still a baby. Only a few brief blips of pre rennisance science appeared on our radras from long lost civilizations such as rome, greece, egypt, and the likes.

the infinte is not hard to understand, there is a cycle. creation, destruction ect.

Evolution isnt being debunked, it is being revised and rediscovered. You are allowed to do this with scientific theories, unlike religous dogma, which is suppsoed to be the absolute truth. New ideas of evolution are being discovered, old flaws in the therory thrown out.

That humans evolved from apes is pretty obvious, as is a common ancestor for all animal life. we share 95% of our dna with animals on the planet. we all came from a cmmon source.

chimps and humans genetically and socially are alike. same from gorillas. look at george bush and his simian mug. And you still deny evolution?

# it, it's a worthless discussion which has been discussed in numerous threads already.



[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Lysergic]

"Something always came before something else. This cycle never stopped."

How about empirically prove this to us on a universal level please.....your dribbling; fetch a spoon.
Fact: Something does not come from nothing. Just "what" was the "something"?

regards
seekerof

Actually, I think it was a great post. The continued belief into modern times of vengeful spooks in the clouds damning people for natural behavior is Sooooo15th century.

He simply used plain logic. You dont even need to use logic, really to debunk religions.

Just look at the bible. Its hard to believe people really believe this # in this modern age.

However, OBE, and psychic or paranormal phemina is possible. theres some 90% of the human mind that is left a mystery on its purpose and what it can do. magic? Divine intervention? They once thought the same thing about megnetism, solar eclipses, and thunderstorms. Now we understand them.

The psychic phenomina of the human mind someday will be understood as well. Science is still young. wehn you consider that science has been active for only a few hundred years, compared to thousands of years of superstition and myth, science is still a baby. Only a few brief blips of pre rennisance science appeared on our radras from long lost civilizations such as rome, greece, egypt, and the likes.

the infinte is not hard to understand, there is a cycle. creation, destruction ect.

Evolution isnt being debunked, it is being revised and rediscovered. You are allowed to do this with scientific theories, unlike religous dogma, which is suppsoed to be the absolute truth. New ideas of evolution are being discovered, old flaws in the therory thrown out.

That humans evolved from apes is pretty obvious, as is a common ancestor for all animal life. we share 95% of our dna with animals on the planet. we all came from a cmmon source.

chimps and humans genetically and socially are alike. same from gorillas. look at george bush and his simian mug. And you still deny evolution?

What is possible is possible irregaurdless of "when."

I'm trying to locate two things... on the net... I'm having trouble though..

One was a map of the land Palestine possessed around the 19th century, compared to the present. Israel basically stole all of their land. And some people wonder why they are upset, and if you understand why the are upset, you must be anti-semetic.

Much like that one quote...

"I gave food to the starving children, and they called me a saint. When I asked why they didnt have any food, they called me a Communist."

Another thing I'm looking for is an Elftor comic. Unfortunately, Elftor is down.

Current theory is that Space, Time, and existence went from non-being into being in the split second when a 'singularity' exploded. Just "where" did the singularity come from or why and how it exploded? There are two possibilities or postulations to this:

1) It always existed. This premise says that "God" exists because there was never a time "God" did not exist. External existence is the first cause without a cause.
2) It appeared out of nothing without cause. This premise says that if external existence is not the first cause without cause of "God's" existence, then "God" must have just appeared out of nothingness without cause.

What was this "something"? God or matter?

regards
seekerof

"something" is for your own interpretation.


God/Matter

I mean truly What is God?

The guy in the bible? or Allah? or None of the above?

Something we can't even understand is more like it.

This is just my opion.

You seem pretty desperate in your attempt to defend yout theological beliefs. Too bad you dont have any evidence to support them except imaginative speculation. Anyways, who says the universe cant be infinite? Time is infinite.

Anyways, how about 3.) It always existed. Circles end where they begin. Think of the universe as a flower wilting in the winter and blooming again in the summer. For instance, George Bush supporting the \"Forest Thinning Initiative.\" to stop forest fires. Using the logic that: \"Fire needs material to burn, remove that material and it cant burn.\" Negating the fact that we\'ve destroyed over half of our worlds rain forest already, let us contemplate the importance of this stupidity, forest fires are a natural part of nature, the cycle of destruction and construction although insentient.

The universe has complex attributes to it. But to claim a deity exists because of the fact that you arent aware of enough evidence to support a universe that wasnt created by some one named \"bob\" or what have you... Essentially, because you\'re ignorant you feel thats justification for the belief in deities. That doesnt cut it with me.

The so called logic of a theist states that: "Who creates each precious, beautiful and unique snowflake?" Do people honestly want and expect an answer like "Bob. Bob did It." Well, it wasnt Bob, it was Nature. We have everything to thank to nature. Too bad nature isnt sentient or cognitive. And you know what? Nature isnt even omnipotent! Awesome.

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by AnarchistSuperstar]

/yawn

And you have provided nothing but facts.


next please.

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by Lysergic]

Why should I have to debunk that crap, jag?

Ahem, Your facts again?

Originally posted by AnarchistSuperstar
You seem pretty desperate in your attempt to defend yout theological beliefs. Too bad you dont have any evidence to support them except imaginative speculation. Anyways, who says the universe cant be infinite? Time is infinite.

Anyways, how about 3.) It always existed. Circles end where they begin. Think of the universe as a flower wilting in the winter and blooming again in the summer. For instance, George Bush supporting the \"Forest Thinning Initiative.\" to stop forest fires. Using the logic that: \"Fire needs material to burn, remove that material and it cant burn.\" Negating the fact that we\'ve destroyed over half of our worlds rain forest already, let us contemplate the importance of this stupidity, forest fires are a natural part of nature, the cycle of destruction and construction although insentient.

The universe has complex attributes to it. But to claim a deity exists because of the fact that you arent aware of enough evidence to support a universe that wasnt created by some one named \"bob\" or what have you... Essentially, because you\'re ignorant you feel thats justification for the belief in deities. That doesnt cut it with me.

The so called logic of a theist states that: "Who creates each precious, beautiful and unique snowflake?" Do people honestly want and expect an answer like "Bob. Bob did It." Well, it wasnt Bob, it was Nature. We have everything to thank to nature. Too bad nature isnt sentient or cognitive. And you know what? Nature isnt even omnipotent! Awesome.

[Edited on 13-9-2003 by AnarchistSuperstar]

Ah...yes, the ole' logical, analytical, skeptical approach.....
Amounts to conjecture, postulation and personal judegements and conclusions.
Personally dude......I believe what I believe...and thats in God, and you don't. The thing is, you presented the case that God doesn't exist and have YET to empirically prove that, in fact, He does not.....go figure.
Believe what you will, but to tell me that what I believe is foolish or unfounded is about as unfounded as your own beliefs are.
"If believeing in God is irrational, is NOT believing in God rational?"
I don't think so, but to each his own...right?
Your postualtion is still not valid nor empirical....nothing but a unproven premise and a belief. An atheist believes in nothing....but yet to believe in nothing, he/she must believe in just that...nothing.

regards
seekerof

My main issue with religion and the concept of "God" is that it seems to revolve around mankind being something special, that out of all the cosmos we were hand picked by some supernatural being to be made in his image. And also the fact that religion has been twisted and contorted from their original intentions. The idea of good and evil, which is really an abstract concept considering our moral's and basis on good or evil are stemmed from our social influences.

But on the other hand if we look at the element of Carbon, which really could be considered the foundation for life, it easily forms chains to create other elements and has a structural quality that seems more engineered than forming of its own. Which would lead one to wonder if in fact there was some lifeform that perhaps created the galaxy. Such an idea would be much more complex than our ideas of "God".

just some food for thought.