It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

"We go to liberate, not to conquer"

page: 2
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 11:05 AM
link   

Yeah but hitler was a nazi and we are not.


The only difference there is between you and the nazi's, is the name and location.

You even wear the same kind of helmets as the german soldiers.


And I'm pretty sure the people he helped and the people his soldiers liberated would be ashamed to hear you say that SS.


I wouldn't count on it sweety


--------------------

Go ahead and continue to "liberate" poland, Sig heil and what not.

The only thing you are liberating Iraqies from, is their lives and their oil.




posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 11:13 AM
link   

Originally posted by Syrian Sister

Yeah but hitler was a nazi and we are not.


The only difference there is between you and the nazi's, is the name and location.

You even wear the same kind of helmets as the german soldiers.


Hmm, did you study history at school ?
The comparison you made has no basis in fact and is completely wrong. However, we are all used to that from you, which is why people give so little weight to what you say

A little truth in the future may help you.



[edit on 12-11-2005 by rogue1]



posted on Nov, 12 2005 @ 12:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
The only difference there is between you and the nazi's, is the name and location.

Actually, my government is quite on the right compared to the naxis who where on the left.
I (politically speaking) am more a comunist...


You even wear the same kind of helmets as the german soldiers.

Not quite, we wear a rounder helmet where as the germans had better sniper protection ones.



I wouldn't count on it sweety


Really?
Hmm guess those that defended him in the trial against him by the british (which was started off by a USMC reservist I might add) where...forced to NOT try a man huh?
And thanks fair lady,

--------------------


Go ahead and continue to "liberate" poland, Sig heil and what not.

The only thing you are liberating Iraqies from, is their lives and their oil.

Nope, we liberated them from a monster we put in.
Unless your siding with sadamm?



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 01:58 AM
link   

Hmm, did you study history at school


Actually yes, World war two history Concentrating on germany and Japan.


"Nope, we liberated them from a monster we put in."


You put Saddam into power in the first place.

And now you put in a regime which is just as torturous, murdering and repressive as the last.

And it's kind of Ironic, because it's like saying, when the Nazi's attacked Russia, they where "liberating" russians from the Monster Stalin.

Is that what your saying?

I expect an answer to that.

------------------------------------------

As for the helmets not being similar, it's kind of a pointless arguement but just to set the record straight.


www.thortrains.net...

Recent clones of Airfix Afrika Korps figures, these 45mm figures have had their field caps replaced with German helmets. They were sold as US troops, mainly because of the similarity between the German and modern US helmet. Germans sold as Americans? The concept would be unthinkable in 1962, but it happens with hardly a nod in 2002.


german helmet






US helmet



[edit on 13-11-2005 by Syrian Sister]



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 02:42 AM
link   
Hello Syrian Sister.

I simply cant take anything you say seriously, its all West hating propaganda, everything i have seen you write is anti west and you make these futile attempts to make the west out to be terrorists??

btw only need to type in syrian sister into google to see you use the same nic to post about 20 million west hating lies.

I have this funny feeling that you live in a Western country too.



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 03:03 AM
link   
Cruncher

My posts have nothing to do with "the west" . I don't hate the west, infact, there are alof of western nations and western cultures that i like and admire.

My posts have everything to do with anti-imperialism, and anti-US foreign policy.



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 03:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by devilwasp
These are the famous words of Colonel Tim Collins in his speech to his 600 soldiers of the 1st Battalion, Royal Irish Regiment.
The 1st Battalion, Royal Irish Regiment is now in iraq doing for a 6 month period, Colonel Collins himself has resigned from the army..


So you're saying it only took him six months to figure out it was all a lie and resign?


He's smarter than the avarage bear.


There's some that, even after a few years, still havn't figured it out.


[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 03:47 AM
link   
wrong post board

[edit on 13-11-2005 by NumberCruncher]



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 04:03 AM
link   

Originally posted by Syrian Sister[/i
You put Saddam into power in the first place.

And now you put in a regime which is just as torturous, murdering and repressive as the last.

Not really, the new iraqi government hasnt commited genocide, homocide, rape or the varios other crimes the last Ba'ath one did.


And it's kind of Ironic, because it's like saying, when the Nazi's attacked Russia, they where "liberating" russians from the Monster Stalin.

Thats a fair enough conclusion but you have to ask one thing.....have the coalition opnely shot women and children execution style in the street?


Is that what your saying?

I expect an answer to that.

I am saying we are liberating them from a monster we made, the germans didnt create stalin, they hated him.




As for the helmets not being similar, it's kind of a pointless arguement but just to set the record straight.

Not really.


UK army helmet..
www.surplusandadventure.com...

Diffrent neck style, btw , the german army was always having the best gear so its logical for us to copy thier ideas.
It provides great sniper cover actually, btw , are you now calling the entire german army in 1940's nazis?
If so you are generalising...



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 04:06 AM
link   

Originally posted by redmage
So you're saying it only took him six months to figure out it was all a lie and resign?

No and it is not a lie. He resigned because the army wasnt what it was and for personal reasons....unless your trying to imply that his wife and son dont come first?


He's smarter than the avarage bear.


There's some that, even after a few years, still havn't figured it out.

Please, take your opinion, and leave from my thread.



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 04:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by devilwasp
No and it is not a lie. He resigned because the army wasnt what it was and for personal reasons....unless your trying to imply that his wife and son dont come first?


As has been posted earlier in this thread, he has had quite a change of heart regarding his opinions of this war.

From the link you provided "In January 2004, Collins announced his resignation from the army, citing bureaucracy, chronic underfunding, and the MoD's lack of support over the mistreatment allegations."

Also: "He has recently been critical of the Iraq war: "the UK and US pour blood and treasure into overseas campaigns which seem to have no ending and no goal ... Clearly I was naive"

I see nothing in that about wife and son as his reason.

However, I do see an intelligent, highly decorated officer stating he smells something fishy (" MoD's lack of support over the mistreatment allegations") and that he was naive.

Mistreatment, being a serious issue to him in his famous speech, is not something he takes lightly and I feel comfortable taking his word for it that something is awry.



Please, take your opinion, and leave from my thread.


Lil, touchy there aren't ya?

You do realize that by posting in a public forum that you are welcoming people of differing viewpoints to reply.

If you don't care to hear a different side to things you have options:

a) don't post publically

b) ATS is kind enough to provide an ignore feature

c) start your own board where you can carefully screen for members that only share your point of view

Feel free to exercise your right to choose



[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 04:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by redmage
As has been posted earlier in this thread, he has had quite a change of heart regarding his opinions of this war.

So his change of heart makes it a lie huh? Ah well I guess wanting a war to stop is surrendering huh?


From the link you provided "In January 2004, Collins announced his resignation from the army, citing bureaucracy, chronic underfunding, and the MoD's lack of support over the mistreatment allegations."

I see nothing in that about wife and son as his reason.

No his wife and son are not mentioned in the report its in his book, he wanted to go back to his son and wife.
The acts above ARE true though.


However, I do see an intelligent, highly decorated officer stating he smells something fishy: " MoD's lack of support over the mistreatment allegations".

Mistreatment, being a serious issue to him in his famous speech, is not something he takes lightly and I feel comfortable taking his word for it that something is awry.

Yes something is awry when a major can get a british army colonel accused and almost removed from the army over "what he says"...
What you see or dont see is your buisness, I am stating my opinion you state yours.



Lil, touchy there aren't ya?

I am toucy today.


You do realize that by posting in a public forum that you are welcoming people of differing viewpoints to reply.

Its not a public board and I welcome opinions, ABOUT THE TOPIC.


If you don't care to hear a different side to things you have options:

a) don't post publically

b) ATS is kind enough to provide an ignore feature

c) start your own board where you can carefully screen for members that only share your point of view

I like it when people have diffrent opinions, I dont like it when they wreck MY OWN threads.


Feel free to exercise your right to choose


[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]

Feel free to leave my thread for going off topic, dont let the door hit your six on the way out.



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 05:26 AM
link   

Originally posted by devilwasp
So his change of heart makes it a lie huh?


I see your point, maybe "lie" was a stretch, he does however, admit that his stance was naive.



Ah well I guess wanting a war to stop is surrendering huh?


Not at all, and I can't see the logic where you would draw that correlation.



No his wife and son are not mentioned in the report its in his book


Got a title? Sounds like an interesting read.



I am stating my opinion you state yours.


Thanks for the permission




I like it when people have diffrent opinions, I dont like it when they wreck MY OWN threads.


At the moment that's just the pot and the kettle.

I am by no means "wrecking" your thread, unless it's meant to be one sided propaganda.



Feel free to leave my thread for going off topic, dont let the door hit your six on the way out.


Awww, just when I got your permission too


This is a thread on Collins and his "famous speech"....right?

Because that was what I was posting in regards to.

Although you may feel that "This man IMO showed what a soldier is meant to be and lead by example, a true war hero." means only a pro war "We go to liberate, not to conquer" stance, I feel his resignation and admission of prewar naivety also "leads by example" in how our true heroes have the courage to stand up for what they believe in and also the courage and honesty to admit when they are, or were, wrong.


[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 06:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by redmage
I see your point, maybe "lie" was a stretch, he does however, admit that his stance was naive.

No he just changed his opinion.
That wasnt just a stretch it was a blatent lie.



Not at all, and I can't see the logic where you would draw that correlation.

I got that from your last post.



Got a title? Sounds like an interesting read.

"Rules of Engagement"





At the moment that's just the pot and the kettle.

I am by no means "wrecking" your thread, unless it's meant to be one sided propaganda.

No we were talking about the speech, and at a stretch the man.
Not the war.




Awww, just when I got your permission too


This is a thread on Collins and his "famous speech"....right?

No its on the speech....hence the title...


Because that was what I was posting in regards to.

Really? I thought you where oging on about your opinion on the war..


Although you may feel that "This man IMO showed what a soldier is meant to be and lead by example, a true war hero." means only a pro war "We go to liberate, not to conquer" stance, I feel his resignation and admission of prewar naivety also "leads by example" in how our true heroes have the courage to stand up for what they believe in and also the courage and honesty to admit when they are, or were, wrong.
[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]

I have not read one statement where he has said the war was a lie..
Could you please show me a link or book which says that he was "wrong" about the war and that it was a lie?



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 06:34 AM
link   

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by redmage
he does however, admit that his stance was naive.

No he just changed his opinion.
That wasnt just a stretch it was a blatent lie.


Yes, he does admit it.

His words from your source, he has recently been critical of the Iraq war: "the UK and US pour blood and treasure into overseas campaigns which seem to have no ending and no goal ... Clearly I was naive"




Not at all, and I can't see the logic where you would draw that correlation.

I got that from your last post.


Enlighten me! Where did I say "wanting a war to stop is surrendering huh"



No we were talking about the speech, and at a stretch the man.
Not the war.


What was the speech about again?




No its on the speech....hence the title...


The title of the thread is not " Collins's famous speech"

The title of the thread is "We go to liberate, not to conquer"

Since the speech he has publically stated that "the UK and US pour blood and treasure into overseas campaigns which seem to have no ending and no goal" and that "Clearly I was naive".




Although you may feel that "This man IMO showed what a soldier is meant to be and lead by example, a true war hero." means only a pro war "We go to liberate, not to conquer" stance, I feel his resignation and admission of prewar naivety also "leads by example" in how our true heroes have the courage to stand up for what they believe in and also the courage and honesty to admit when they are, or were, wrong.
[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]

Could you please show me a link or book which says that he was "wrong" about the war


Ok, if you don't get it by now I'll show you once more.

Collins (from your link):"Clearly I was naive".


[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 06:48 AM
link   

Originally posted by redmage
His words from your source, he has recently been critical of the Iraq war: "the UK and US pour blood and treasure into overseas campaigns which seem to have no ending and no goal ... Clearly I was naive"

Naive to what though?
Naive that the govenrment and military has any withdrawl plans? Yes he is right there, even mentions it in his book.
Naive to the war? I dont know.


Enlighten me! Where did I say "wanting a war to stop is surrendering huh"

You never said it, thats the message I receieved from your post....



What was the speech about again?


How they soldiers would act.



The title is not " Collins's famous speech"

It doesnt need to be since that is collins only famous speech..


It is "We go to liberate, not to conquer" and since the speech he has publically stated that the UK and US pour blood and treasure into overseas campaigns which seem to have no ending and no goal and that "Clearly I was naive".

The speech? The speech says nothing of the sort.



Collins (from your link):"Clearly I was naive".


[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]

[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]
Naive about what though?



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 07:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by redmage
"We go to liberate, not to conquer"

The speech? The speech says nothing of the sort.


Then why is it the title of the thread?


Rhetorical to show the rediculous nature of your out of context arguments.


The speech was inspiring and well written, big props to his writers.

IMO it's sad that the situation doesn't live up to the ideals presented within.


You never said it, thats the message I receieved from your post....


Exactly, I never said it.

Like I said, I didn't see the logic that lead to that correlation.

It made no sense to me.

Your jumping to false conclusions just to argue is not me "wrecking your thread"


[edit on 11/13/05 by redmage]



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 09:25 AM
link   
Syrian Sister, did it ever occur to you that the German military in WW2 was perhaps the most advanced in the world? Can you conceive of the idea that once the war ended, the allies took the opportunity to review what made the German army so advanced and copied various aspects? Do you realise that the MG42 revolutionised the mobile machine gun? Did you know that the AK47 was inspired by the StG44? Look at them:



Does this make the Russians or any Arab insurgency Nazis too? Why make such a simpleton remark?

[edit on 13-11-2005 by cargo]



posted on Nov, 13 2005 @ 09:38 AM
link   

Originally posted by redmage
Then why is it the title of the thread?


Eh?


Rhetorical to show the rediculous nature of your out of context arguments.

My arguements make no sense?
Pot calling the kettle black I believe is the saying.



The speech was inspiring and well written, big props to his writers.

He wrote it.


IMO it's sad that the situation doesn't live up to the ideals presented within.

IMO it has, not one single irish ranger has commited any degrading acts and has treated the land with the respect it deserved.


Exactly, I never said it.

Like I said, I didn't see the logic that lead to that correlation.

It made no sense to me.

Your jumping to false conclusions just to argue is not me "wrecking your thread"

I am not "jumping" to anything, if I wanted to argue with you I would.
Its simpler to just go to a thread about the war and intice you in than make my own thread about a speech. You are wrecking my thead btw.



posted on Nov, 14 2005 @ 02:26 AM
link   

Not really, the new iraqi government hasnt commited genocide, homocide, rape or the varios other crimes the last Ba'ath one did.


OH? well i suppose allowing the US to bombard Cities all over iraq, and use chemical weapons on fallujah, and murder and rape people in abu gharib doesn't count right?



quote:
And it's kind of Ironic, because it's like saying, when the Nazi's attacked Russia, they where "liberating" russians from the Monster Stalin.

Thats a fair enough conclusion but you have to ask one thing.....have the coalition opnely shot women and children execution style in the street?


No instead they shot women and children hiding under their beds. What's your point exactly?


I am saying we are liberating them from a monster we made, the germans didnt create stalin, they hated him.


LOL, well atleast you admit you made him. But how are you liberating them while you are replacing Saddam, with something just as bad, Yourselves. The Germans may have hated stalin, but they where just as bad, and the russians hated the germans just as the Iraqies hate america, and the russians resisted them, just as the Iraqies are resisting. So is it right for germany to invade Russia to "liberate them from stalin" ? no ofcource not, just as it is not right for you to invade ANY sovereign nation, on the context of medling with their leaders.
THe biggest difference between Germany and Stalin, is that Stalin was RUSSIAN.
The biggest difference between American and Saddam, is that Saddam was IRAQI.

That's the difference it makes to a people. that's the difference to a patriot. Iraqies may not have thought it necceseray to resist saddam, but they certainly see it necceseray to resist you. That's patriotism.


------------------


Not really.

the german army was always having the best gear so its logical for us to copy thier ideas.


So basically you are admitting that you have the same style of helmets. Why didn't you just say that in the first place instead of disagreeing with me on something that is obviously true?


btw , are you now calling the entire german army in 1940's nazis?


Well most of the time you people call all of the Former Iraqi army Ba'athists. NO, not all of the german soldiers where Nazi's. But the nazi ones, like the SS hat i showed, was very similar to the americans.


---------------

Cargo


Does this make the Russians or any Arab insurgency Nazis too? Why make such a simpleton remark?


HENCE THE REASON I SAID: "
As for the helmets not being similar, it's kind of a pointless arguement but just to set the record straight.
"

---------------------------------

Devil wasp, you are wrecking your own thread by continuing to argue with Red Mage. Admit you where wrong and that would be that.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join