A.M.O.R.C

I always been interested to join The Rosicrucian Order, Amorc for few years as my father was a member since 1974. But through the years members of my family and friends told me that the joining the order would be a lower step, there are a lot of bad luck etc. But that has put me in a state of worry! eventually i've been speaking with my father what would the orther bring to my life. He answered: 1) Discipline 2) courage 3) peace 4) may depend what i look to bring in the humanity.


My main worries are obviously the change of myslef to a new me but much more confident, inteligent and very intellectual.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...


For some reason I can't get a link to the search results to work, and don't want to post all the URL's; so try searching the following threads:


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ATS Large List of Secret Societies 1 2 NavalSpecWar 432915 30 8006 16-8-2004 @ 09:29 AM
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ATS True origins of the Illuminati..... 1 2 3 ..5 m0rbid 452811 81 9115 10-5-2005 @ 08:19 AM
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ATS What is the Penalty? 1 2 3 ..5 theron dunn 734793 92 3128 30-8-2004 @ 04:29 AM
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ATS Mystical Communities (Societies) Angle 1 777373 10 1050 23-10-2004 @ 03:39 PM
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ATS Rosicrucian Order (AMORC) AllseeingEYE 804213 18 1436 4-3-2005 @ 01:23 PM
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ATS Rosicrucian Order (AMORC) JonestownRed 826113 18 1436 4-3-2005 @ 01:23 PM
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ATS Masons-Rosicrucians 1 2 morgion 1127027 35 1272 1-2-2005 @ 03:12 AM
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ATS Masons-Rosicrucians 1 2 Tesla 1158102 35 1272 1-2-2005 @ 03:12 AM
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ATS Rosicrucian Order (AMORC) Tamahu 1166042 18 1436 4-3-2005 @ 01:23 PM
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ATS Rosicurians Cug 1455218 9 413 8-6-2005 @ 11:47 AM
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ATS The Illuminati 101 1 2 Masonic Light 1706474 24 1158 16-9-2005 @ 09:26 AM
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ATS A.M.O.R.C

I was a member for several years. The only thing I'll say is that the primary purpose of AMORC is to generate money for AMORC. There is nothing in the monograms that they send you that you cannot find in a public library for free.

I'm currently a member at present. I do agree with your comments, its not possible to finds such a thing like the amorc work anywhere else. I do feel by doing what they said life could change rapidly.

I am currently looking the CR+C. I have been doing my research and many have told me that the AMORC has drifted away from its original teachings and that CR+C is more in line with said teachings.

The best way to find such information about amorc, is just by typing rosicrucian order and all the info.. will come up. Keep on searching in different websites.

All i can simply say is that if you follow the principle which are written, you would find the answers.

im getting freaked out because i cant find negative info on amorc anywhere- why are all past members too scared to talk?

i need to know wtf ive gotten involved with

Originally posted by newtimedo
im getting freaked out because i cant find negative info on amorc anywhere-

Probably because they're all fluffy, like Wicca. If you want some real controversy, join the O.T.O.!

I'm with Masonic Light on this one. I'd imagine they're rather fluffy, as they seem to be more of a religion than anything.

But hey, you could always join the O.T.O., atleast they straight up admit their involvment in occult teachings.

Originally posted by thexsword
I'm with Masonic Light on this one. I'd imagine they're rather fluffy, as they seem to be more of a religion than anything.

But hey, you could always join the O.T.O., atleast they straight up admit their involvment in occult teachings.

The A.M.O.R.C. admit that they are an occult order, as do all occult orders that I'm aware of. I'm a member of one myself: Builders of the Adytum

Interesting, kind of creepy in sense, even though there are thousands of occult like groups such.

Masonic Light, I know Masonry has many esoteric teachings in their rituals, it seems. Are you like a New Age Spiritualist or something?

Nothing against any of your practices, just curious.

Originally posted by thexsword
Interesting, kind of creepy in sense, even though there are thousands of occult like groups such.

Masonic Light, I know Masonry has many esoteric teachings in their rituals, it seems. Are you like a New Age Spiritualist or something?

Nothing against any of your practices, just curious.

No, I don't consider myself either a New Ager nor a spiritualist. More like a Kabalist and Neo-Platonist with Buddhist and Taoist leanings.

Hi newtimedo

Originally posted by newtimedo
im getting freaked out because i cant find negative info on amorc anywhere- why are all past members too scared to talk?

i need to know wtf ive gotten involved with

The A.M.O.R.C. certainly does not represent the Brotherhood of the Rosy-Cross.



The following suggestions will get you on the right track, if you're interested in Rosicrucianism:


www.abovetopsecret.com...




Also:

Gnostic Glossary

"The order of the Logos, the true Rosicross, does not have a visible or tangible organization in the physical world, it does not have a physical temple; this only exists in the superior worlds. The brethren of the Rosicrucian Order who have physical bodies here in this tridimensional world are all of them Resurrected Masters. They are Resurrected Masters who already incarnated the Christ. Those from distinct schools and orders in this physical world who denominate themselves Rosicrucian are false. The true Rosicrucian Order that the Logos has established upon the face of the Earth does not have any visible organization, it does not dictate courses by correspondence, nor does it collect fees, nor does it have juridical personality, nor does it have internal or external statutes. Their members are not even acquainted with each other in this physical world. They might be acquainted with each other in the superior worlds, yet in this physical world they very seldom, very seldom encounter each other." - The Kabbalah of the Mayan Mysteries


A lodge in the internal worlds whose members are all Resurrected Masters.

The groups in the physical world who call themselves Rosicrucian have absolutely no affiliation with the True Order. In particular, Samael Aun Weor indicates repeatedly in many books that the school of A.M.O.R.C. (based in California) has nothing to do with the true Order. See The Revolution of Beelzebub for more information.

Joining the modern O.T.O. would not be recommended IMO; as they now teach Black Tantra(which is the working with the arsenic-sulphur).

(There has been some debate here at ATS as to whether or not the O.T.O. originally taught White Tantra; which, according to my research, the O.T.O. did teach White Tantra: In it's beginnings.)






Regards

Originally posted by Masonic Light
No, I don't consider myself either a New Ager nor a spiritualist.

Yeah, "channelled" information is a sure indicator that teachings in question are bogus(although we do have to make the distinction between authentic Oracles and ordinary mediums/channellers).

More like a Kabalist and Neo-Platonist with Buddhist and Taoist leanings.

Same here.

Mostly Khemetic/Hermetic Gnostic-Kabbalah and Tibetan Tantric Buddhism(Vajrayana or Mantrayana).

Although, I've yet to study in depth the I-Ching, Tao Te Ching, Wen-Tzu, Chuang-Tzu, Secret of the Golden Flower/Mystery of the Golden Blossom, etc.


Have you studied the works of Thomas Taylor, ML?

Originally posted by newtimedo
im getting freaked out because i cant find negative info on amorc anywhere- why are all past members too scared to talk?

You can't find negative info? Me thinks you need to practice your google skills.

The most common negative about A.M.O.R.C. is that it's more of a money making operation than anything else. Most of this comes from the arrest of H. Spencer Lewis (A.M.O.R.C. founder) in 1918,for selling of fraudulent books and collection of money under false pretenses. (Charges were latter dropped)

Aleister Crowley on H. Spencer Lewis (A.M.O.R.C. founder)

His claims were grotesquely absurd. For instance, he said that I don’t know how many knights of England and France – the most improbable people – were Rosicrucians. He said the Order was founded by one of the early Egyptian kings and professed to have documentary evidence of an unbroken hierarchy of initiates since then. He called the Order Rosae Crucis and translated it Rosy Cross. He said that in Toulouse the Order possessed a vast temple with fabulous magnificent appointments, an assertion disprovable merely by consulting Baedeker. He said that Rockefeller had given him nine hundred thousand dollars and at the same time sent round the hat with an eloquent plea for the smallest contributions. He professed to be a learned Egyptologist and classical scholar on terms of intimacy with the most exalted personages. Yet, as in the case of Peter, his speech betrayed him. He was a good chap at heart, a genuine lover of truth, by no means altogether ignorant of Magick, and a great fool to put up all this bluff instead of relying on his really good qualities.

Source: The Confessions of Aleister Crowley

...had been entangled in the toils of one of the charlatans who worked the Rosicrucian racket, merrily disdainful of criticism based on his elementary blunders in latin and his total ignorance of the Order which he claimed to rule.

Source: The Confessions of Aleister Crowley

Spencer Lewis ... had been knocking about for years trying to run a fake Rosicrucian order. He cast about everywhere for authority and when I first met him in New York in 1918 E.V., he was showing a charter supposed to be from the French Rosicrucians in Toulouse. He had devoted so much time to the conquest of the innermost secrets of Nature that he had not been able to spend any to learn French. Now even in New York there are a few people who know French and this ridiculous forgery made him a general laughing stock so that he withdrew it.

Source: Letter from Aleister Crowley to Arnoldo Krumm-Heller dated 28th December, 1936, in the possession of Peter König

Originally posted by Tamahu
(There has been some debate here at ATS as to whether or not the O.T.O. originally taught White Tantra; which, according to my research, the O.T.O. did teach White Tantra: In it's beginnings.)

Same teachings.. Have you read the book I mentioned back then on Paschal Beverly Randolph? He was the source of the teachings (via the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light and the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor) that you would consider "black."

Also have you read Reuss's teachings?

user.cyberlink.ch...

This might be a bit esoteric for the average Joe but I think you will get the gist of it.

Originally posted by Cug
You can't find negative info? Me thinks you need to practice your google skills.

lol

I was thinking the same thing.

He said that Rockefeller had given him nine hundred thousand dollars and at the same time sent round the hat with an eloquent plea for the smallest contributions.

Source: The Confessions of Aleister Crowley

Hmmm...

So it may not be far-fetched that the A.M.O.R.C. was financed by Zionists...

...had been entangled in the toils of one of the charlatans who worked the Rosicrucian racket, merrily disdainful of criticism based on his elementary blunders in latin and his total ignorance of the Order which he claimed to rule.

Source: The Confessions of Aleister Crowley

True indeed.

Same teachings.. Have you read the book I mentioned back then on Paschal Beverly Randolph? He was the source of the teachings (via the Hermetic Brotherhood of Light and the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor) that you would consider "black."

You see, this is why I don't trust many Occult and so-called Rosicrucian Orders.


One Gnostic instructor said it best:

Gnostic Movements

At first glance, you cannot see what is happening in the depths of the ocean by the shape of the wave. In the same way, all the rifts and battles of the superficial level merely reflect tremendous battles being waged in the internal worlds, in combination with the ascending or descending paths of the combatants, and the initiatic requirements of each.

Yet, when one has some experience in these matters, one realizes that this is the way it has always been, and it is the way it will always be, so long as the ego remains with humanity. The fact is that movements and schools are vehicles which change drivers from time to time, and those drivers are on the one hand the Monads who are using their human souls to accomplish missions, and on the other hand the demons who are trying to advance their own causes.

What is most interesting is that in the space of a breath a movement can shift from being guided by an Initiate on the ascending scale, to being guided by a demonic intelligence, and none of the members of that group will have a clue about it.

Yet they go on arguing about who is the best, who has the most knowledge, etc.

This happened even with the chief of a worldwide religious order, whose lineage contained back-to-back opposites: at one moment the supreme head was really the great demon Jahve, and yet another leader (just before or just after Jahve) was actually a great Initiate of the White Lodge. (Do not bother asking me who I am talking about, for I will say no more about it).

Yet people go on assuming that the movement defines the members and leaders, when it is really the other way around. Just because someone calls himself Gnostic does not make him an angel.

Besides, most of the "history" of movements (and humanity) is all conjectural anyway. If you were there and a part of it, then I would be willing to consider it. But if you were not, then how can you say with confidence that said history has any truth in it?

One, or perhaps both H.B.L.'s(I have a book on them by Jocelyn Godwin that I've yet to read), may have at one time been connected to the Ancient Gnosis; but I think H.P. Blavatsky withdrew from it for good reasons(she was better off studying with H.S. Olcott, John Yarker, the Egyptian Rite of Cagliostro and the Gelug School of Buddhism.


It seems that Paschal Beverly Randolph(advisor of Abraham Lincoln?) did teach Black-Tantra; but I haven't read any of his supposed published works.

Swinburne Clymer who claims Rosicrucian lineage of P.B.R. seems alright, but I've only thumbed through a few of his books, which weren't extremely impressive.

Also have you read Reuss's teachings?

user.cyberlink.ch...

This might be a bit esoteric for the average Joe but I think you will get the gist of it

Not really.

I've only explored a few pages of Peter Koenig's website.

As interesting and useful as some of it may be, it isn't trust-worthy info; considering that he lumps Samael Aun Weor in with all the "Spermo-Gnostics" who teach Black Tantra.


My question remains:

Why would Franz Hartmann(who being an authentic Theosophist, would not have approved of Black-Tantra, as his attitude toward sexual conduct would be the same as H.P.B.'s, which is the same as the Gelug School) and Arnold Krumm-Heller(who taught the necessity of non-ejaculation in the sexual act), both proponents of White Tantra, have involved themselves with the O.T.O. if it's original Sexual Magic system suggested the orgasm?



Anyway, all that mess between A. Crowley, Carl Kellner, Theodore Reuss, Papus, Swinburne Clymer, P.B.R., Arnold Krumm-Heller, Parcival Krumm-Heller, Israel Rojas, the A.M.O.R.C., O.T.O., F.R.C., F.R.A., etc., etc., etc. is a relative waste of time.


Better to practice Dream Yoga and Meditation...

(following the basic sex-morals of Tibetan Buddhism as recognized by Masters of the White Lodge H.H. the Dalai Lama and Samael Aun Weor, as the way to measure one's progress)

...and investigate these things in the Internal Worlds.




The Master Eliphas Levi obviously had the same attitude toward sexual conduct, when we read his explanations of the Astral Light.

The teachings of Rudolph Steiner and Manly P. Hall are highly recommended as well.


As for the Gnosis of Wagner's Operas, the following should be quite a bit more objective than what Peter Koenig, and even Theodore Reuss had to write about it:

www.gnosticteachings.org...







Regards






[edit on 18-1-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu

So it may not be far-fetched that the A.M.O.R.C. was financed by Zionists...

But as that was written by Crowley, you have have to ignore those words.

What is most interesting is that in the space of a breath a movement can shift from being guided by an Initiate on the ascending scale, to being guided by a demonic intelligence, and none of the members of that group will have a clue about it.

Yet they go on arguing about who is the best, who has the most knowledge, etc.

From what I see, the modern Gnostic Movement fits the above statement. Go to this page and scroll down about 3/4 of the way to the question "Q: What can you say about the phrase ‘Do what thou wilt' and the very prominent idea that Aleister Crowley is the main teacher of Thelema?" Is that not a case of Yet they go on arguing about who is the best, who has the most knowledge, etc. ?

And to top it off their answer totally missrepresents the things Crowley said and contains several factual errors. Errors that a Student of the Gnostic Movement will never learn because they are told to "specifically avoid" his works.

As interesting and useful as some of it may be, it isn't trust-worthy info; considering that he lumps Samael Aun Weor in with all the "Spermo-Gnostics" who teach Black Tantra.

I agree with you on the quality of Koenig's work. However if you skip over his personal ideas and read the vast amount of original source material on his site it can be worthwhile. For example the link I posted. That was one of the pre-Crowley O.T.O. instructions from Reuss himself without any of Peters commentary.

My question remains:

Why would Franz Hartmann(who being an authentic Theosophist, would not have approved of Black-Tantra, as his attitude toward sexual conduct would be the same as H.P.B.'s, which is the same as the Gelug School) and Arnold Krumm-Heller(who taught the necessity of non-ejaculation in the sexual act), both proponents of White Tantra, have involved themselves with the O.T.O. if it's original Sexual Magic system suggested the orgasm?

A multitude of reasons.. perhaps they changed their minds at some point in time, or maybe they did not see it as "evil" but simply as another school of thought. Really if someone like Krumm-Heller disliked Crowley's practices, why would they exchange letters and visit each other? In fact why would Krumm-Heller have Crowley portrait hanging on the FRA's walls?

Krumm-Heller met with Aleister Crowley on several occasions and, according to his unpublished memoirs, held him in high esteem. He may have visited Crowley in Cefalú. On June 7, 1930, Crowley, Karl Germer and Karl's first wife Cora met with Krumm-Heller at Krumm-Heller's house in Berlin, Germany. Parsival, then 5 1/2 years old, was there. Parsival remembers being terrified at first at the presence of "Therion." Crowley asked Krumm-Heller why he had named his son Parsival, and Krumm-Heller responded that Parsival had been born at the foot of Monsalvat in Spain. Crowley, who spoke in fluent Spanish to Parsival's father, spoke briefly to Parsival in broken German. Parsival recalls that Crowley's portrait was one of the five that hung in the F.R.A. lodge, the others being of Reuss, Papus, Hartmann, and Steiner.

Source: www.hermetic.com...

Anyway, all that mess between A. Crowley, Carl Kellner, Theodore Reuss, Papus, Swinburne Clymer, P.B.R., Arnold Krumm-Heller, Parcival Krumm-Heller, Israel Rojas, the A.M.O.R.C., O.T.O., F.R.C., F.R.A., etc., etc., etc. is a relative waste of time.

Learning is NEVER a waste of time.

Originally posted by Cug
But as that was written by Crowley, you have have to ignore those words.

No, like I've said before, he was a very learned occultist; and it is said that he was a Hanasmuss.


Even though Zionism is Black Lodge, I do give credit to the Rockefeller Foundation for helping out Tibetans in exile.

How this happened, I know not.

From what I see, the modern Gnostic Movement fits the above statement. Go to this page and scroll down about 3/4 of the way to the question "Q: What can you say about the phrase ‘Do what thou wilt' and the very prominent idea that Aleister Crowley is the main teacher of Thelema?"

Is that not a case of Yet they go on arguing about who is the best, who has the most knowledge, etc. ?

No.

Someone asked a question, and the instructor answered.

Thelema, is not the property of A. Crowley, Samael Aun Weor, or anyone else.

Many people simply see Samael Aun Weor to be the Avatar of Aquarius(for great info on Incarnations of Avatars, see the works of Godfrey Higgins).

And who else could be, given the other 'candidates' for the Aquarian Avatar?

And to top it off their answer totally missrepresents the things Crowley said and contains several factual errors. Errors that a Student of the Gnostic Movement will never learn because they are told to "specifically avoid" his works.

I said "specifically avoid", and I'm no representative of the Gnostic Movement.

I'm in the process of study, and I'll share what is learned.

Either way, A. Crowley taught things that are completely opposed to the Great Arcanum(as taught by Samael Aun Weor, H.H. the Dalai Lama and the other main Tibetan Tantric teachings, heavily implied by the Alchemists of the Piscean Age, Eliphas Levi, Manly P. Hall, etc.).

So why would one who would Build the Solar Bodies(which utilizes the Transmuted Sexual Energies(as opposed to expelling them), sent upward through the Three Main Nadis) want to practice Black Tantra(orgasm)?

I agree with you on the quality of Koenig's work. However if you skip over his personal ideas and read the vast amount of original source material on his site it can be worthwhile. For example the link I posted. That was one of the pre-Crowley O.T.O. instructions from Reuss himself without any of Peters commentary.

Okay, thanks.

I'll have to read that and try to get back to you on it...




[edit on 19-1-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Cug
A multitude of reasons.. perhaps they changed their minds at some point in time, or maybe they did not see it as "evil" but simply as another school of thought. Really if someone like Krumm-Heller disliked Crowley's practices, why would they exchange letters and visit each other? In fact why would Krumm-Heller have Crowley portrait hanging on the FRA's walls?

As mentioned earlier, A. Crowley was apparently on the White Path earlier on.

Perhaps some of A.C.'s colleagues were not aware of his fall until way after the fact?

Same thing with Papus perhaps?


Or maybe A. Krumm-Heller was into darker aspects of the Path earlier on, and then changed his attitude later on?

Though I should learn more about this, before speculating more.


Regardless of all this, the way to Awaken Positively is time-less, and is the same in every corner of the Universe.

The Science will never change, not during the Age of Pisces, not during the Aeon of Osiris, not during the Aeon of Horus, not during the Age of Aquarius, etc.

It is just that the Age of Aquarius(or "Aeon of Horus"?), is the time for openly revealing the Great Arcanum, or Karma-Mudra, to the public.

We we were born of Sex, not theories.

We fell through Sex.

And we need to be Born Again of Sex(in the Chaste way), and with Faith in Christ.

A. Krumm-Heller taught this as well.

Learning is NEVER a waste of time.

No disagreement here.

I was simply saying that the intellect in itself, can only go so far.






Regards

AMORC is about lies and money. So are all other secret orders.