Open Letter to Amnesty International on the Iraqi Constitution

"put a frog in boiling water, he will jump out immediately. Put a frog in a pot of water and let it slowly boil, the frog will burn to death."

we are the frog, we dont notice because it happens ever so slowly.

"forgien terror fake, make no mistake, they strike first?/
or was their attack something that we'd create?/"

think about it, just how long have we been over there, bombing them, or invading on their business how long have we been pressuring them politically or in military ways?

No, and the rest of your post can stand against the absolutism of this statement.



As cited etal. (pertaining to the post):

The most noticeable indication a fascist alignment by a party or government is the separation and persecution of a particular class of people, (usually the bourgeois denying the proletariat) based loosely upon beliefs or some superficial endemic qualities.

Fascism has many forms and adheres to no constants. No government/political party is ever any one specific definable constant structure.

This convention given:

Fascism (this apparently dirty assignable word) pertains to ‘party’ platform, political ‘beliefs’ structure and . ...elements of governments as well as extra-political influences etc. So a few problems....

Name one government which has not exuded ‘fascism’ in some form.

Name one religion which has not adhered to fascist ways.

And..

By the ‘Webster’ definition even the parenting of children can be considered ‘fascist’.

The 'definition' is far to broad to pin as a 'negative' and casts to wide of a splash.



Military Hierarchy, different etymology, except in various cases such as the military is the government or a hybrid of, rule of law etc....different conversation.



Supporting war, supporting a specific war, supporting some war, supporting war in general.... or supporting all wars are different points.



Great argument against appeasement.

'Fascist' is an overused term, to wit These '14 points of Fascism' by L. Britt 'floating around' is far over used and is plagerized bunk written to fit an audience and has no academic basis.

Fascism is everywhere.
.

Whats that supposed to mean: sometimes the right call isnt the right call? I have one word for that: A LIE, which is what this illegal occupation of Iraq is based upon! And there is another word here: HYPOCHRISY.


Yes he is. Or else he would not sent UK Troops to Iraq, like France or Germany did not. Therefore, he is sucking up to the Bush and will ALWAYS have the Number.2 spot - which means he will ALWAYS have to listen to what Number.1 has to say.


Kuwait was an independant state and was illegally invaded by another armed force. Just like Iraq was. Same story - different Actors.


I belive that United Yugoslavia - thats where I was BORN - was much better then the fragmented states of Balkan we have today. But it was always in the intention of Other European states to destroy united Yugoslavia and make it break apart. Thats why there was around 60 attempts of assassinations against the president Marshal Tito.


What are UK troops doing in downtown Basra?

Getting some Sun tan?


I belive that in the MoD there are several Soldiers working, right? Therefore, she is in constant contact with the Military. Therefore, she adopts some of the behaviour patterns. Some go playin golf, others play tennins - I guess military personell go to the shooting range.


You play FPS? First Person Shooters, right? You like shooting and you like the Army and you support the War.

What a Perfect Cadet you will make!


If you survive the Battlefield, with all the weapns and mines and shells and everything - you can go home and live a healthy life, if nothing seriously happend to you and if you were not wounded. BUT if you are inhaling DU dust and are in contact with other DU material - you can go home without any wounds, but will later get SICK, get cancer on Lungs, Liver, Kidneys, Limgs system or Bones.

Thats the SAME right? I wonder what you would say about DU if one of your Soldiers Buddies got sick of the so-called Gulf War Syndrome, and started to loose hair, loose weight, just because he had a growing cancer, caused by the DU?


Yes Ofcourse! OH The noble British Soldiers! Oh how Chivalrous they are! I think every soldiers does no think about innocent civilans when he is being shot up. Its either HIM or THEM - and everyone will put himself on the first place.


AND Intel Agencies. There are SEVERAL CIA Agents operating in Afganistan, armed and looking like Taliban soldiers, with beards and muslim scarafs around their necks. They are CIA Agents, working in a hostile enviroment, and they conduct Black Ops.


They would send a sniper or set him up with a bomb. Its not like its their First time, you know? Your goverment has assassinated alot of people.


Navy is a part of Armed forces and is under direct command of the MoD. And I am sure that the MoD does not publish news that would in any way Harm the Navy or the Mod or ANY branch of the Armed Forces. Never!


I have no idea mate - too much Quotes and I really missed the point of this one!


Well if it make you feel better, you can say that you are not.
But I think there is a Love affair going on between your PM and the US president. Maybe thats why he is invited into the Royal Carlyle Group. What a Hon!


JUST ME? Whoa! Now thats rich. I think I am not alone here. The only people I have met that like it, are military personel, ex-military personel, or people who really like the military (like yourself). Napalm is not pretty either, and how many tons of it were dropped on Iraq?


Yes they do.


Oh yes! The good old Beheading story - is that like the last resort of a military fan, when they run out of reasons to spread Hate agains the Muslims, they use beheading? Go to Saudi Arabia and Check out how they practice Sharia Law, and then talk about Terrorists.

I agree with what you have to say about Fascism being a losely defined term but to say that all Fascism is 'negative' is inappropriate. Fascism has its excesses just as any other form of government. To say that any Fascist form of government is bad is an exaggeration. If it hadnt been for the military designs, racism and the genocide against the jews Nazism could be considered to be a very effective form of government.
Granted that no Fascist regime has proven to be sucessfull or proven to be good for humanity so far but their has never been just one form of fascism as we now describe it. The Italians followed one system and the Nazi followed another, it cannot be typified by either as both of them were distinct in their style of governance. It would be wrong to totally rule out Fascist forms of government as evil just because the Fascist govenrments that have come before were unsucessfull.
It is my opinion that it would be possible to have a sucessfull form of Fascism if it were to respect basic human rights and international law.

That is very true.

Oh! Really? So now you are an expert on Sharia Law and Arabic culture?
I have been in Saudi Arabia for nealry 8 years during Desert Storm and I can tell you for a fact beheading's in saudi Arabia is standard punishment. Moreover these beheadings are not in some closed medical facility but very public.
The Sharia Law as you call it is not exactly what is followed by the Saudi's, they have twisted it to resemble a barbaric form of justice where vengence is encourages and so is torture and brutality.
If you expect a fair and proper trial in Saudi arabia then you are surely naive because I can tell you from stay there that it is the most biased form of justice I have ever seen.

EXACTLY!

In one word - Saudi Arabia is a Muslims Fundamentalist Heaven. Even you say that the Beheadings in Saudi Arabia are a standard punishiment. So, how come this state, that hosts such savage laws and upholds them, was NOT attacked after 9-11, when 12 out of 15 hijackers were Saudi, Osama is a Saudi, they have brutal laws and practice Sharia, and they have the Mutaween - religious police, also known as the Authority for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice. How come they were not on the list of targets when US was planning their so-called War on Terror? Sound like Saudi IS the main terror State!

An institution found in Saudi Arabia is the Mutaween, or religious police, also known as the Authority for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.

There are 3,500 officers assisted by thousands of volunteers, [2] whose job it is to enforce religious doctrine (Muslim Shari'a law as defined by the Saudi government) and to root out "un-Islamic" activities. They have the power to arrest any unrelated males and females caught socializing, and to ban consumer products and media, such as games and toys, various Western musical groups, and television shows. The Mutaween recently launched a website where people can file anonymous tips about "un-Islamic" activities.


en.wikipedia.org...

Let me tell you WHY:

I suggest you read the Book House of Bush, House of Saud and READ it for yourself. While you are horrified by the Laws of Saudi Arabia, your dear president is holding hands with Prince of Saud. Why? Could it be, that they have ENORMOUS ammounts of Oil?

external image

I think this Friendship goes Deeper then you and I can ever Imagine.

Instead Bush attacks Afganitan and Iraq after 9-11. How many Hijackers were Iraqi or Afgan? Somehwere around ZERO!

Yet Bush had plans to Invade Iraq and Afganistan prior to 9-11, even before it all happened.

[edit on 21/10/05 by Souljah]

Well, Souljah your point is valid but you do not understand the Saudi political stucture, it is a bti more complicated than merely pointing a finger and say GO to the military.
Firstly, Saudi Arabia is ruled by the AL Saud family which is a majority and the main reason they rule is because they claim to be the protectors of the " Two Holy mosques of Mecca and Madina ". The Al Saud family is granted support by the Wahabi's- an ultra fundamentalist muslim sect in SA. These Wahabi's are a very proud and fundamentalist people who want to bring SA back into the dark ages and are the main sponsors of terrorism.
The Saud family is basically very rich, very well off and western educated and are considered to be a more liberal and open people then the wahabis. The wahabi's have tried to take over SA in the past (some time in the 70's by capturing the mosque at mecca) but failed as this was thwarted by the Saudi National Gaurd. The Saud family has always been friendly to the US and has always obliged the US in many ways like granting bases in SA and also other reforms that they had to fight hard against the wahabi's and clerics to get through. To attack SA would be to back stab the Saud family that has been the only real liberal force in the region and this would ensure that the wahabis gain more popularity and take over control which would be a very bad situation. If it were the wahabi's in control, their would have been a greater probability of an invasion on SA.
In SA even though the Al Saud family rules with authority their control is limited, they do have some compulsions that the wahabi's hold them too. Also to side excessively with the US against other muslim nations would send the wrong signals to the general populance in SA against the Al Saud family.
You may not know it but SA is the main focus of the CIA and other intelligence agencies as this is the moral and financial support of all terrorism all across the world. Even thought the pressure against the Al Saud family is great to abandon its ties with the US and join Bin Laden's Coalition, the Saud family especially Abdullah is very shrewd and knows that this would be a folly. The only thing that has saved Saudi Arabia against Saddam and now against the Coalition of the willing is the support of the Saudi royal family in the middle east to the US. Also even thought they are under pressure they have managed to have massive crack downs against terrorism in SA in the last few years. if you remember the bombings in SA, a couple of months back this is probably one of the very few instances of violence in SA as any dissent or other activities against the authority are put down harshly. Also by cracking down on terrorism, the Saud family has put itself at a very precarious position with all this open support for the US against terrorism and is now a target itself, which in SA is a very dangerous situation as the wahabi's will try to get as much out of this as they can and the terrorists will use this to sow dissent and try to take out the Al Saud family if they can.

Also as you have said, Bush and Abdullah holdings hands. This is very normal for the Saudi's and not only hands men, actually greet each other by kissing each others on the cheek, this is seen as normal behaviour there in SA. Also holding hands, even thought it might creep Bush out, is a sign of mutual trust and friendship that the Saudi's want to show to their people that they have with America.

Now talking about Oil, yes SA has a lot of oil and are one of the major exporters to the US. But the US doesnt depend solely on the Saudi's for oil, oil and LNG are sourced from various locations in and around the US to make sure that no calamity or crisis in one region will adversely affect the availability of oil in america. The Saudi's are the ones that really make the profits as they earn more if the US gets its oil from them. Also the Saudi's want to make sure that America gets its oil from SA as this gives them greater access to the US where most of their assets are tied. Another important thing about SA is that they produce next to nothing, their industrial activity is dismal for a nation that size, they depend mainly on imports form the US and Europe to maintain even their basic needs so you can understand why they need to be in america's good books.
Not only W.Bush or his father but even Clinton had similar understanding with the Saudi's, it doesnt mean that this was mainly because it was only for oil, it was for oil partly but also it was to get a foot in the door in the middle east.
Another point to consider when attacking SA would be the sentiments of muslims around the world, if you think they are pissed now attacking SA would make them go positively postal. They believe that SA is holy land and for non-muslims to even enter it is to defile it, so youcan imagine if some non-muslim infidels with guns came and took it over!


I am well aware of the Mutaween or the Mutawah as they are called there. This is indeed more of a religious police then anything else, they ensure than women are covered at all times from head to toe in islamic clothes and other such measures. Its members are mostly wahabi's and it they who are the ones that dictate religion in SA. Also the mutaween are belived to be actively against the royal family of Al Saud.






[edit on 21-10-2005 by IAF101]

I think you are just angry because I am showing you the Mirror and you really do not like what you see. You are angry , because deep inside you know its true, but you do not want to admit it to yourself. You are anry, because even the US News are reporting this, there is Filth all over the place, I dont even have too look hard to find it - yet you still support your goverment in excercising their war on terror, a war which CREATES Terror, a war which is designed and planned to everlast.


WoW! Just wow. Is that the best you can do? Seriously, you were looking an entire week for that? The problem here is, that you are just doing that to proove your point (which actually is not there), and I am just using news from all over the world for source. What you have posted is no news. And you have once again shown your inferiour knowledge of my Coutry and my Culture.


I know a Nazi when I see one. How about the event that happened last week, when Nazis in US were promoting themselves and the cops protected them! What is that? A bunch of Nazi worshipers in Nazi uniforms with Swastikas on their hands are walking down the streets, expecting nothing to happen - ofcourse protected by the police. Now, who payed them to do that?


I was using the Reichstag Metaphore to proove a point - just like Hitler did it to spew hatred towareds Jews, Bush did it to start hatred towards Muslims. We do agree that the Hatred towards Islamic Religion is Very present in the world today, especially in the US?


Bush Legion had plans to invade Afganistan and Iraq prior to any of the 9-11 Events. Why? Could it be that they were planning this Invasions, and later looking for Excuses for them - like Hitler? He also had plans to invade foreign countries, and later he found excuses for them.


I agree that US is the largest aid donor in the world - but looking at the GDP, it is not. Because USA is probably the richest country in the world, that aid does not effect the budget of the country.

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Only four countries - three in Scandanavia - have met the UN aid target of 0.7% of GDP.

In contrast, Japan, the US and Italy all stand out for their below-average aid contributions.


Did you know that Even though these targets and agendas have been set, year after year almost all rich nations have constantly failed to reach their agreed obligations of the 0.7% target. Instead of 0.7%, the amount of aid has been around 0.2 to 0.4%, some $100 billion short?

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According to the British paper, the Guardian, in March 2002, if all countries from the OECD were spending 0.7% of GNP on aid, aid flows would be $114bn higher than current levels each year.


I still do not know why the poorest of countries donated so much money and help to the richest nation in the world. As if the US do not have it all.

As far as Slovenia is concerned, I see your ignornace is showing once again in the words of poor knowledge and even poorer researach.

There you go:

Slovenia donated EUR 2.8m in aid for the Asian countries hit by the deadly tsunami in December, which is EUR 1.5 per capita, Foreign Ministry State Secretary Bozo Cerar said in Luxembourg on Tuesday. Cerar said this was the total amount provided by the government and Slovenian humanitarian agencies.

www.uvi.si...


Sorry mate, but we do not invade foreign countries, actually we can not defend our airspace properly. If you ask me, I do not agree with our current budget and our current position in the NATO. But thats just my opinion. Furthermore, my country is small and does not have any plans to get any bigger.

Check your Military budget:

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- The US military budget was almost as much as the rest of the world’s.

- The US military budget was more than 6 times larger than the Russian budget, the second largest spender.

- The US military budget was more than 30 times as large as the combined spending of the seven “rogue” states (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) who spent $13 billion.

- It was more than the combined spending of the next fourteen nations.

- The United States and its close allies accounted for some two thirds to three-quarters of all military spending, depending on who you count as close allies (typically NATO countries, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan and South Korea)

- The seven potential “enemies,” Russia, and China together spent $134.2 billion, 34% of the U.S. military budget.

Wow. Such a Peace Loving Administration....


I can tell you why the US spends so more on the Army:

Because they want to maintain their role of the Superpower and as mentioned in the Project for the New American Century - the people that are currently in the administration are all about global superiority and dominance of Space, Cyberspace and just about all the Planet.


Better then yourself. They occupied my country, not yours. So I guess I do know a little abou them yes. Wanna try me?


Terrorism is just an Excuse, a Scapegoat, a new enemy of the free western world. If your presidnet is So Good in fighting this terrorism, why has it Increased since his brave, new War on Terror? Why are there MORE terror attacks then before?


What a Spech! Did you consider a Career in the White House? I bet Karl Rove would be really proud on you. You could write speeches for Bush you know?


Want to Share that Care with other Problems, for instance in Africa? You know how many civil wars are going on there at this moment? Hasnt it been too ling for the US to turn a Blind Eye on the Problems in Africa? Or are they not worthy of your attention? I hear there is some oil reseves in Nigeria....

Maybe there is still hope for Africans....


Again, what a SPEECH! BRAVO!

Evil. Terrorism. Justice. Democractic. Reminds me of a Bush speech. But hey, I can see who your role model is.

It is you that do not understand the Tentacles of the Evil in this situation. You created the phenomenon of Islamic Fundamentalism! You Funed and Founded it in Afganistan! Al-Qaeda is Made in USA! You created this enemy of the free world. What a Parfect Enemy for an everlasting war and for an everlasting profit. Such Brilliant Strategy.


AGAIN let me tell you that Saddam and Taliban had NO chance of getting away, because plans were being made for the invasion of Iraq and Afganistan LONG before any 9-11 Events. Planning? Coincidence? Right after the Taliban were destroyed in Afganistan - which were actually put to power by the CIA in the first place - Bush put his own littel puppet in control, who immediatly started building the Pipeline through Afganistan. Business as usual. Just as Halliburton makes Billions and Billions $ of profit with every day US is in Iraq - which means that your vice president is also getting Filthy Rich as we speak.

Great Job!


Exactly.

And the same I can claim for you and for all your answers to my posts.

Where is YOUR proof?

Where is the proof that Saddam had WMDs that started this War?

Where is the proof that Afganistan was connected to 9-11?

Where is the proof that Saddam is connected to Al-Qaeda?

Where is the proof that WTC did not collapse because of Controlled Demolitions?

Where is the proof that Boeng757 did Crash the Pentagon?

Where is it?

Why is goverment hiding that?

Why is it Obsesses with Secrecy?

Have they shown you Proof for their Actions - or did you blindly belive every word they said?


And what IS a CREDIBLE Source for your delicate senses?


And makes Enormous Profits when Wars are being Waged.

When Blood is spilled, profit rises in Halliburton and vice-president Chaney, the CEO of Halliburton is ALL FOR WAR.


Let me tell you again:
THE VICE PRESIDENT Chaney is the CEO of Halliburton, meaning that the State and the Corporation is MERGED here. That is called FASCISM - when the state seeks out wars, to make profits by their own war corporations.


Hmmmmmmmmmmm....
All of them?


Typcal. First Dolphins and Whales are NOT fish - they are actually Mammals, meaning they are like us, they give birth to a little baby and they have warm blood flowing through their veins. Dolphins are extremly Smart, as proven many times (smarter then SOME of the people on this Board). And this NEW TYPE OF SONAR - not the Invention of Sonar, which I know was invented during the WWII - HARMS THEM. And I know you do not care about them, as you do not care about the Enviroment and the entire World we Live in. You would kill all the Fishies, burn all the trees, nuke all the terrorists, and in the end, you would end up all alone on this Planet, with nothing but desert and dead waters surrounding you. But then it will be too late.


I am sure that by destroying a KEY Element in the Ecosystem of the Planet such a Rainforrest, would mean a Significant throw off the delicate Balance that we have right now, which would result in much worse consequences then a few Hurricanes more. But again, your ignorance has shined brightly here also. Congratulations!


And you have done it again!

Tell me something, do you try really hard to be insultive, or is it in your Nature? First of all, I dont think there were any bosnian tanks in our territory, and if there were, we would not throw stones at them, but fire anti-tank missiles. But yout pathetic knowledge and arrgonce towards the rest of the world has proved to be perfect once again. You are just like your president, that you adore so much: prooving your own stupidity with your statements. Please, talk so more, and more of it you shall reveal.

Its supposed to mean its not the moraly "right" thing to do, but it was the right thing to do, I dont care if you call it a lie, the truths about opinion.

Yeah theres also another word here, progress.
A bad man is removed, you and I cant deny this.
The cost was high due to the people he brainwash, the people that supported him, the people that dont want to lose thier power and the extremists.


Oh really, nice opinion pity it has 0 fact.
If he was sucking up then why is he working with the EU?
Number 2? In what?
Number 2 military and economy wise IS china, we dont care about number 2.
We just want a decent force and decent economy.


Uh yeah kuwait didnt comit genocide against its own people, use gas against its own people and didnt launch scuds and invade an inocent country now did it?
Diffrent story, just commonalities like them both being countries and both being invaded.


What are you on about??? Where did you get that from? Why???


Liberating it, not occupying it

Yes and liberating at the same time, yes we can multi task..


Yes.

No...she adopted shooting because she got offered it in the cadets.

My other shooting teacher a chief in a cadets was a hairdresser, now....that makes him influencial too doesnt it?


Yes.

Wrong, I dont like the army, I may respect them but I dont like em.
Dem pongos!

"Will" well gee thanks nice to see I'm now not a cadet..


Yeah I'd think so because after all that if you DID surivive all that miunes n stuff you'd be pretty messed up in the head after words.
But heh, ofcourse its all a numbers game isnt it?


No just good people.


Yeah it is a "him or them" situation but they put the civilians first, why? Because frankly you wouldnt want inocent blood on your hands and frankly british soldiers are good.


You realise that only 1/4th of the CIA is anywhere near "black" and the only "Black" they do is intel.
They call in regular and special militaries because they are not suited for the job of soldiers/marine/sailor/airmen.
Infact, the UK has a british RANGER unit hunting sadamm down with weapons.


Yeah they would use a third party, why? Because its political suicide to try and do it themselves OR would get a military sniper to assasinate someone but heh ofcourse this is all too high profile.
If we wanted to talk about low profile it would be poison and natural causes.


Yes.

No it reales press statements and punishes the men acordingly, unless those 2 soldiers who where sentanced DIDNT get punished?



You where going on about some one or something!


Well mate I Could say thats a load of tripe but some people might get offended once their theory is debunked but heh.


I dont like DU.
I dont like napalm.
But they are effective.

I dont know, I dont think I want to know.
But the facts prove, its effective.


No they dont.


Well mate thats your opinion and your entitled to it but frankly thats a pretty bad review of military supporters.
I dont hate muslims, hell most of my class at college is made up of them but I dont like people who behead civilians.
I dont care about saudi Arabia, frankly I care about my country and my troops, the world treats us by double standards. Better just to sit back and let them burn themselves while staying neutral with a big stick.